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View Poll Results: Which is the busiest Freeway
401-Toronto 170 57.43%
Santa Monica Freeway-LA 96 32.43%
Southwest Freeway-Houston 14 4.73%
I-85-Atlanta 16 5.41%
Voters: 296. You may not vote on this poll

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Old March 26th, 2010, 02:25 PM   #481
kicksilver
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Man, the AADT us 700,000. 1,2 million is the daily estimate, counting that the same cars pass twice, going abd then coming back later.
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Old March 26th, 2010, 04:08 PM   #482
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That's just impossible on a 2x4 with frontier roads.
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Old March 26th, 2010, 11:38 PM   #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aswnl View Post

That's just impossible on a 2x4 with frontier roads.
It's not, trust me. I've been there on a normal sunday, at 2:00pm, and I took more than 3 hours to go past it. It's pure hell.
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Old March 26th, 2010, 11:41 PM   #484
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you don't understand, how it works. it is physically not possible for a road like that to have 700,000 cars per day at one point.
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Old March 26th, 2010, 11:48 PM   #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kicksilver View Post
It's not, trust me. I've been there on a normal sunday, at 2:00pm, and I took more than 3 hours to go past it. It's pure hell.
Impossible. If 30,000 cars are to pass it per hour (700,000 / 24) over a total of 8 lanes, then you have to travel at mach speed. Anything slower, and you can't cram 30,000 cars past an hour on just 8 lanes.
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Old March 26th, 2010, 11:52 PM   #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kicksilver View Post
It's not, trust me. I've been there on a normal sunday, at 2:00pm, and I took more than 3 hours to go past it. It's pure hell.
If it took 3 hours that would mean that the traffic is going quite slow, which reduce the number of cars that is able to pass. I dont doubt that its a busy road as I`ve been in Sao Paulo myself, but the numbers you are presenting is impossible to have on one point, even with 14 lanes. Unless every car is driving 120 km/h bumper to bumper.
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Old March 26th, 2010, 11:58 PM   #487
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This is an authentic Marginal Tietê freeway minimum speed sign:

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Old March 27th, 2010, 12:04 AM   #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD View Post
you don't understand, how it works. it is physically not possible for a road like that to have 700,000 cars per day at one point.
The 700,000 figure is for the whole freeway. This road is 25 kilometers long, and exactly because you measure it for the whole freeway makes these numbers useless to compare. For example, 1.2 million vehicles use the 35 kilometer long Boulevard Périphérique around central Paris.

However, traffic is not measured that way, because roads have various lengths. Exactly for that reason they measure between two interchanges.

If we look at the number of lanes at hand on the Marginal Tietê, we can see there are 8 through lanes and 6 parallel lanes with driveway access.

8 lanes have a capacity of ~2,200 vehicles per hour per lane. That is 17,600 vehicles per hour on the mainline lanes, which by any means is no free-flowing figure. You can multiply this by about 12 (rule of the thumb for road usage in heavy urban areas), which gives an AADT of 211,200 vehicles per day.

About 200,000 -220,000 is in practice also the top volumes what you see on most other 8-lane freeways in the world.

The 6 parallel lanes are free-flowing, but numerous right-in right-out exits reduce the capacity of those lanes. I estimate it at around ~ 1,800 vehicles per hour per lane. 6*1,800*12 = 129,600 vehicles per day. This would mean these lanes are congested for most of the day.

By this calculation (211,200 + 129,600) you can see the maximum AADT for this road section is most likely around 340,800 AADT. Which is an extremely high number, only a few roads in the world reach such volumes, and are usually 14 - 18 lane freeways.
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Old March 27th, 2010, 02:59 AM   #489
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By AADT standards, this is the busiest road:



Its the 401 in Ontario, Canada. It can top 500,000 vehicles per day in some sections of Toronto during the summer months.
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Old March 27th, 2010, 11:16 AM   #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haljackey View Post
It can top 500,000 vehicles per day in some sections of Toronto during the summer months.
Such figures are not representative, thus not interesting in comparing. Peak loads can be 20 - 30% higher than the average weekday traffic volume. This is especially an issue in countries like France where incredible saturday volumes are reached, for example, the A7 in France can get up to 200,000 vehicles on summer Saturdays, while the average volume is only 70,000.
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Old March 31st, 2010, 06:13 PM   #491
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According to this information, Marginal Tietê has 350.000 vehicles/day. Unfortunely it doesn't say if this is AADT or not.

http://www.estadao.com.br/estadaodeh...mp531109,0.php

JP

Last edited by J.Paulo; March 31st, 2010 at 06:21 PM.
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Old March 31st, 2010, 06:27 PM   #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kicksilver View Post
Hello lads. After checking personally how many cars pass through Marginal Tietê freeway in São Paulo (Brazil) and findind astonishing 1,2 MILLION vehicles daily, I've been wondering if there are any roads out there that can surpass it?
According to this information from Sao Paulo Government site, marginal tietê has 1,2 million travels/day not vehicles per day.

http://saopaulo.sp.gov.br/spnoticias...de+crescimento

JP
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Old March 31st, 2010, 06:31 PM   #493
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I guess 600,000 cars a day is a lot, don't you think so?
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Old March 31st, 2010, 06:41 PM   #494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Paulo View Post
According to this information, Marginal Tietê has 350.000 vehicles/day. Unfortunely it doesn't say if this is AADT or not.

http://www.estadao.com.br/estadaodeh...mp531109,0.php

350,000 sounds plausible*. 20% trucks is a bit much though, urban roads always have a lower truck share (or a higher car traffic share) even when the truck volumes are very high in absolute numbers.

70,000 trucks (20%) is the passenger car-equivalent of 175,000 cars, thus you need 8 lanes for trucks alone. I know truck traffic is significant in Brazil, but 70,000.... I doubt it.

* internationally seen, 350,000 is still a huge number, but not unheard of.
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Old March 31st, 2010, 08:31 PM   #495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kicksilver View Post
I guess 600,000 cars a day is a lot, don't you think so?
Where does this 600k cars per day information comes from ?

JP

Last edited by J.Paulo; March 31st, 2010 at 08:46 PM.
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Old March 31st, 2010, 08:44 PM   #496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
350,000 sounds plausible*. 20% trucks is a bit much though, urban roads always have a lower truck share (or a higher car traffic share) even when the truck volumes are very high in absolute numbers.

70,000 trucks (20%) is the passenger car-equivalent of 175,000 cars, thus you need 8 lanes for trucks alone. I know truck traffic is significant in Brazil, but 70,000.... I doubt it.

* internationally seen, 350,000 is still a huge number, but not unheard of.
I understand, but for Sao Paulo there is no road around the city, roughly all the trucks have to pass in the middle of the city to reach another highway/road. That's why the Rodoanel is buyng built but only 50% is done (inauguarated tomorrow in fact April/1st).

Also, you would point out that in Brazil, motorcycles use the between lanes, so in fact the 10 lanes in Marginal Pinheiros mean 10 lanes for cars/trucks/buses + around 7 lanes for motorcyles.

To illustrate:





JP
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Old March 31st, 2010, 09:52 PM   #497
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That looks like the least mean biker-gang ever!
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Old April 1st, 2010, 01:10 AM   #498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Paulo View Post
Where does this 600k cars per day information comes from ?

JP
If it's 1,2 million travels daily, I guess it's 600,000 vehicles going and coming back from work, that's why it was counted twice?
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Old April 1st, 2010, 01:30 PM   #499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kicksilver View Post
If it's 1,2 million travels daily, I guess it's 600,000 vehicles going and coming back from work, that's why it was counted twice?
The 1,2 million travels is still just how many vehicles that is using parts of this whole road per day. It has nothing to do with how busy part of it is. The E40 in Europe probably have tens of million travels per day because of the length, but I can`t say that it`s the busiest road in the World for that reason. If you`re going to count travels done on the whole road, then the Marginal Tietê would probably barely make it to the top thousand in the World.
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Old April 1st, 2010, 03:18 PM   #500
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It doesn't look like a busy road to me at all.

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