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Old July 30th, 2010, 04:47 PM   #81
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. I know El Coll|La Teixonera is located between El Carmel and Vall d'Hebron...
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Old July 30th, 2010, 04:54 PM   #82
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Video about new section of line 5

http://www.lavanguardia.es/ciudadano...l-carmel.html#
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Old August 18th, 2010, 07:45 PM   #83
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Barcelona metro now:
124 km.
164 stations
11 lines
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Old August 18th, 2010, 08:52 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aniuska View Post
Barcelona metro now:
124 km.
164 stations
11 lines
This is an incredible network for a medium size city with only 1.600.000 inhabitans!
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Old August 18th, 2010, 09:11 PM   #85
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This is an incredible network for a medium size city with only 1.600.000 inhabitans!
Barcelona Metro serves almost 5 milion people, all Metropolitan Area.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 12:21 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by FabriFlorence View Post
This is an incredible network for a medium size city with only 1.600.000 inhabitans!
As a matter of fact, the city of Barcelona is 1,600,000 inhabitants, the greater Barcelona has 4,400,000, the province of Barcelona (not the whole of Catalonia, which comprises three more provinces) 5,500,000.

The city of Paris alone is not much bigger than Barcelona (2,100,000 inhabitants), though the greater Paris (the ╬le de France, including the so-called banlieue, though it has some rather rural parts as well) has nearly 12,000,000...

Madrid the city has 3,500,000 inhabitants (bigger than Paris then), but the greater Madrid goes "only" to 6,500,000...

Last edited by 437.001; August 19th, 2010 at 01:02 AM.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 12:33 AM   #87
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As a matter of fact, the city of Barcelona is 1,600,000 inhabitants, the greater Barcelona has 4,400,000.

The city of Paris alone is not much bigger than Barcelona (2,500,000 inhabitants), though the greater Paris (the so-called banlieue) has nearly 12,000,000...

Madrid the city has 3,500,000 inhabitants, but the greater Madrid goes "only" to 6,500,000...
Yeah, it is about time Paris, Barcelona and other cities realise they aren't in the 19th Century anymore and update their city boundaries to reflect the spread of their urbanisation. To have an official city boundary which is around 100km2 when the urban area (never mind metro are) is about 800km2 is a joke, as shown by the transport network which goes way beyond that. Hospitalet de Llobregat is just as much a part of Barcelona as Ealing is London, or Forest Hills New York.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 12:53 AM   #88
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... or Montreuil (to name but a few!) in the Paris case.

Anyway the enlargement of big cities seems to have something to do with politicians as well.

Though I┤m not sure the cities of the greater Barcelona would like to be swallowed by the monster to become districts, I think it┤s got something to do with tax incomes, and taxes are not always the same way in different countries, so I┤m not able to speak for the Paris case (and barely for the Barcelona or Madrid cases either, as I┤m not far from the greater Barcelona, but not IN it).

And back to topic, the construction of lines 9 and 10 of the Barcelona metro goes on. Next stop, 2012 it seems, with the airport and port branches to Collblanc. Oh and there will be two new stations to be opened in lines which are already opened: Santa Rosa in line 9 and Ernest Lluch in line 5, the former maybe by early 2011.

Last edited by 437.001; August 19th, 2010 at 01:06 AM.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 01:07 AM   #89
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Yeah I think that tax business is normal. There is a higher local council tax for London boroughs than there is for the bordering counties, so I imagine it is the same type of thing. It is just kind of absurd when there is a continuous urban build up long after you leave the official city borders.

Staying back on topic myself, looking further ahead (beyond the next 5 years) what is likely to be the next big project after L9/10? I know there are some small extensions planned, but are any new lines possible, such as the old diagonal one (partly served by tram isn't it?)? Is there a possibility of one of L9 or 10 splitting off with a new bit in the centre? Or are expansion projects dead until next decade because Spain is basically broke?
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Old August 19th, 2010, 01:08 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FabriFlorence View Post
This is an incredible network for a medium size city with only 1.600.000 inhabitans!
The area served by the metro, or urban agglomeration of Barcelona, which means the urban continuum has a population of inhabitants 3.5000.000
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Old August 19th, 2010, 01:21 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerouac1848 View Post
Staying back on topic myself, looking further ahead (beyond the next 5 years) what is likely to be the next big project after L9/10? I know there are some small extensions planned, but are any new lines possible, such as the old diagonal one (partly served by tram isn't it?)? Is there a possibility of one of L9 or 10 splitting off with a new bit in the centre? Or are expansion projects dead until next decade?
Expansion projects are not dead, but as crisis is all over the place, lots of projects are taking a slower pace.

After lines 9 and 10 will be finished, and by the same time, line 4 should be extended from La Pau to La Sagrera. It is a very short stretch and would give loads more connections.

Then there would be smaller extensions: line 1 from Fondo to Badalona Pompeu Fabra to connect with line 2; line 2 from Sant Antoni to Parc Logistic to connect with line 9 (not ruling out an extension to the airport via line 9 tunnel); line 3 on both ends, from Zona UniversitÓria to possibly Sant Feliu, and also from Trinitat Nova to Trinitat Vella (this last one is really a MUST, as it would give loads more connections than it does now, it would be just one more station, and incredibly has not been included in any immediate plans), and then... well maybe an enlargement of line 2 from Badalona Pompeu Fabra further north, but it has barely any chance to be done, as the Badalona underground has loads of Ancient Roman remains (it was bigger than Barcelona in the old Roman days, now just a suburb).

All the other metro developments in Barcelona are actually extensions and improvements of the suburban commuter train network (which are actually really really needed and works never seem to be starting, oh well).

As for further things... I sometimes dream about some other line, but that┤s not from real life, only in my brain.
Once this plan is finished, Barcelona will indeed have a good metro network.
The main next big things are to come from Suburbia, and from the extension of tramway and commuter train lines (when you think that Barcelona┤s tram network used to be enormous and now it┤s only 20km long-and still after more than 30 years of being nearly completely closed...).

Barcelona is a mountainous city, so you cannot take the metro dozens of kilometers away through eternal tunnels with no stations. Actually some of the new stations are surely among the very deepest in Europe, and that┤s money enough.

Last edited by 437.001; August 19th, 2010 at 01:37 AM.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 08:08 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Expansion projects are not dead, but as crisis is all over the place, lots of projects are taking a slower pace.

After lines 9 and 10 will be finished, and by the same time, line 4 should be extended from La Pau to La Sagrera. It is a very short stretch and would give loads more connections.

Then there would be smaller extensions: line 1 from Fondo to Badalona Pompeu Fabra to connect with line 2; line 2 from Sant Antoni to Parc Logistic to connect with line 9 (not ruling out an extension to the airport via line 9 tunnel); line 3 on both ends, from Zona UniversitÓria to possibly Sant Feliu, and also from Trinitat Nova to Trinitat Vella (this last one is really a MUST, as it would give loads more connections than it does now, it would be just one more station, and incredibly has not been included in any immediate plans), and then... well maybe an enlargement of line 2 from Badalona Pompeu Fabra further north, but it has barely any chance to be done, as the Badalona underground has loads of Ancient Roman remains (it was bigger than Barcelona in the old Roman days, now just a suburb).

All the other metro developments in Barcelona are actually extensions and improvements of the suburban commuter train network (which are actually really really needed and works never seem to be starting, oh well).
Don't forget Line 1 from Hospital de Bellvitge to El Prat de Llobregat (L9, Renfe commuter trains and high speed trains).

There's also a long term project to extend FGC Line 8 from Plaša Espanya to Bes˛s Mar with the following stations: Entenša (L5), Francesc MaciÓ (Tram), GrÓcia (L6, L7 and other FGC lines), Joanic (L4), Sagrada FamÝlia (L2 and L5), Gl˛ries (L1 and Tram), Parc Central Poblenou (Tram), Crist˛fol de Moura and Bes˛s Mar (L4). This extension would also enable the other FGC lines (S33, S4, S7, R5 and R6) to be extended to Bes˛s Mar or any other station of the line.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 09:34 PM   #93
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Quote:
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Don't forget Line 1 from Hospital de Bellvitge to El Prat de Llobregat (L9, Renfe commuter trains and high speed trains).
True, I forgot that one.

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There's also a long term project to extend FGC Line 8 from Plaša Espanya to Bes˛s Mar with the following stations: Entenša (L5), Francesc MaciÓ (Tram), GrÓcia (L6, L7 and other FGC lines), Joanic (L4), Sagrada FamÝlia (L2 and L5), Gl˛ries (L1 and Tram), Parc Central Poblenou (Tram), Crist˛fol de Moura and Bes˛s Mar (L4). This extension would also enable the other FGC lines (S33, S4, S7, R5 and R6) to be extended to Bes˛s Mar or any other station of the line.
That... idea (I refuse to call it a project as there isn┤t one yet) is utter rubbish.
You can┤t take the suburban trains through the city as if it were a proper metro when it isn┤t.
FGC has this problem of clearly not being able to separate two VERY different types of train services, the purely urban metro-like one, and the suburban one which needs less stations and more speed (and many more slots).
The way they┤re doing things, they┤re going to regret it sooner than later.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 10:53 PM   #94
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In my opinion the priority project after they finish line 9 is to reconstruct Pl Espanya and Pl Catalunya into proper intermodal stations. Just close down the two squares for a year and dig up the whole thing and rebuild it from scratch. Today both stations are just horrible to navigate and cramped.

At Pl Espanya I would simply put the Gran Via tunnel at the bottom under line 3 and give it a second exit out on the Parallel street, then move the L3 station to underneath the L1 station and the FGC station right beside the L1 station for fast and easy transfer.

At Pl Catalunya I would move the FGC station to right beside L3 where there is a garage now, then rebuild the vestibule at the north end of the square so that you can move easily between L1,L3,FGC and Suburban trains so that you don't have to go through all the hassle the current station present.

To bad though no politician has the gut to do that
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Old August 19th, 2010, 11:29 PM   #95
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That mustn┤t be a priority at all.
As a matter of fact, many bigger cities in Europe have longer interchanges.
There are other more urgent needs in transport.
A third tunnel (for suburban railway) under the Diagonal avenue is far more needed, to unblock Pl Catalunya and Passeig de Gracia stations, in fact it is an idea the ministry has, but there are no more details available for now.
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Old August 20th, 2010, 12:31 AM   #96
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Wasn't there a plan to have a metro running under Diagonal avenue in the past? makes sense to me.
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Old August 20th, 2010, 12:36 AM   #97
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There┤s been a plan to build the missing link of the tramway, and thus have one tramway network and not two, but the citizens sort of refused it in a sort of referendum.

There┤s been some talk to have the metro, the FGC and lately the RENFE commuter trains.

No more data for now.
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Old August 20th, 2010, 01:05 AM   #98
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Quote:
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Wasn't there a plan to have a metro running under Diagonal avenue in the past? makes sense to me.
Yes you're right. It was a really old plan from the 70's. Here you can have a look to it:

http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/bcn/masterplan-1971.gif

As you can see, some extensions have been built, others have been built but in a totally different way and finally there are a few that haven't been built but in the future will be built.

The Diagonal line would have been line VI. Its eastern part (Gl˛ries - Santa Coloma) is now covered by L1, L2, L9, L10 and the Tram, while the western part (Zona Franca - Les Corts) will be serevd in a few years by L9 and L10. The only section that doesn't have an alternative nowadays is the central one (Diagonal avenue between Francesc MaciÓ and Gl˛ries), and the referendum held last May rejected the construction of a surface Tram there. The proposed extension of FGC L8 would link these two squares too, but with a different design, avoiding Diagonal avenue.

Nobody knows what will happen and the near future. The only sure thing is that we have Catalan regional elections in two months time, so let's hope that the new government takes the decision to build a new line under the avenue.
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Old August 20th, 2010, 03:58 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post

That mustn┤t be a priority at all.
As a matter of fact, many bigger cities in Europe have longer interchanges.
There are other more urgent needs in transport.
A third tunnel (for suburban railway) under the Diagonal avenue is far more needed, to unblock Pl Catalunya and Passeig de Gracia stations, in fact it is an idea the ministry has, but there are no more details available for now.
It is a matter of opinion but you can't argue against the overcrowding at the Pl Espanya station, heck you can't even get inside the station during rush hour it is that crowded, honestly have you seen it? It is operated at 200% capacity at the very least.

The same is the situation at Pl Catalunya during rush hour, it is so crammed that you can hardly move at all, the station is simply not designed for the crowds that it support.

I don't have the numbers but between suburban trains and the metro I think it is the second largest station in the city and during rush hour it handle even more people than Sants.

The tunnel under Diagonal is one of those I believe it when I see it projects. Just the cost would be staggering, easily a multi billion euro project. There are litterary thousands of pipes, tunnels and underground water canals to deal with.
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Old August 21st, 2010, 02:31 AM   #100
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It is a matter of opinion but you can't argue against the overcrowding at the Pl Espanya station, heck you can't even get inside the station during rush hour it is that crowded, honestly have you seen it? It is operated at 200% capacity at the very least.

The same is the situation at Pl Catalunya during rush hour, it is so crammed that you can hardly move at all, the station is simply not designed for the crowds that it support.
I┤m not arguing about these two now overcrowded stations, but...
Wait and see is my advice.
Line 9/10 isn┤t working at full pelt yet. And Sagrera stations are not built yet.

When line 9/10 will be ready, it will unblock some stations, notably Plaša Catalunya, and the Sarria station will be as important an interchange station as Plaša Catalunya, as it will distribute passengers coming from (and going to) many sectors in the city that are now forced to use Plaša Catalunya and Provenša stations (actually Provenša is more overcrowded than Plaša Catalunya) because of the lack of proper interchange stations in the higher quarters of Barcelona today.

As for Sagrera-Meridiana, the new commuter train station, different to the high speed/commuter/regional/metro big Sagrera station, is being finished.
On September the 6th, commuter trains will be able to use the Arc de Triomf-Sant Andreu Arenal tunnel again.
When Sagrera-Meridiana will open, it will offer an interchange to four metro lines (and a fifth in the near future), more than Plaša Catalunya does.
That will provide commuters a much wider choice of stations to interchange.

Quote:
I don't have the numbers but between suburban trains and the metro I think it is the second largest station in the city and during rush hour it handle even more people than Sants.
The station as a whole (metro+FGC+Renfe) yes. The Renfe station alone not.

Quote:
The tunnel under Diagonal is one of those I believe it when I see it projects. Just the cost would be staggering, easily a multi billion euro project. There are litterary thousands of pipes, tunnels and underground water canals to deal with.
Well, the number of pipes is just a small problem actually.
You can build deeper.
And no, it would definitely not cost billions (at least not what a Spaniard calls a billion, which is not the same as what a British does... ).
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