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Old July 8th, 2010, 11:40 AM   #21
mazhulka
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Ah....very beautiful....i know that many churches was damaged in the USSR, some of them had so heavy walls that them exploded for several days.
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Old July 8th, 2010, 11:49 AM   #22
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Ah....very beautiful....i know that many churches was damaged in the USSR, some of them had so heavy walls that them exploded for several days.
I never approved of the destruction of temples and churches in the USSR. But if we talk about functional (not decorative) role of architecture, that Bolsheviks did great work during the General Reconstruction of Moscow in 1920s-1930s. Even today there is huge traffic on the Moscow roads. Without reconstruction and increasing of width of streets during Soviet period, this problem would be a real catastrophe in modern Moscow.
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Old August 18th, 2010, 07:19 PM   #23
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Ah....very beautiful....i know that many churches was damaged in the USSR, some of them had so heavy walls that them exploded for several days.
Really? Poles destroyed all Orthodox churches within their territory after 1918 only due to political reasons. Many of them were also beatiful.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 05:56 AM   #24
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Wait a moment... where's the beautiful part in that photo?

It looks nice, and I'm sure better than dilapidated commieblocks, but is it that special?
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Old August 19th, 2010, 07:53 AM   #25
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Really? Poles destroyed all Orthodox churches within their territory after 1918 only due to political reasons. Many of them were also beatiful.
They didn't destroy all but some, or rather a few...
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Old August 19th, 2010, 09:51 AM   #26
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They didn't destroy all but some, or rather a few...
St. Alexander Nevsky Cathedral, Warsaw:


Mosaic from this cathedral:


Cathedral on Lithuanian Square in Lublin

Even Polish writer and political activist Stefan Żeromski called the mass destruction of Orthodox churches "barbaric action". Poles destroyed these churches only due to political reasons. However, this Russophobia did not prevent to use the parts from destroyed temples in the decoration of the grave of Polish dictator Joszef Pilsudski.

Last edited by AlekseyVT; August 19th, 2010 at 10:23 AM.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 10:13 AM   #27
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Stalin destroyed Orthodox churches and temples for the practical purpose, Pilsudski - for the ideological purpose.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 01:54 PM   #28
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They both had ideological purpose but the difference is that this giant Orthodox cathedrals in Poland where built for ideological purpose in the first place, to show that Poland is conquered. There wasn't anything practical about them since Poland was mostly catholic back then and Piłsudski was authoritarian rather than a dictator.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 02:37 PM   #29
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They both had ideological purpose but the difference is that this giant Orthodox cathedrals in Poland where built for ideological purpose in the first place, to show that Poland is conquered. There wasn't anything practical about them since Poland was mostly catholic back then and Piłsudski was authoritarian rather than a dictator.
According to this logic, Stalin declared that the Soviet people must be atheists and the churches lost practical meaning.

In 1938 there were 3.8 million Orthodox people in Poland.

It's a pity that the current generation of Poles continue to support these nationalistic tendencies. Poland for Poles!
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Old August 19th, 2010, 02:50 PM   #30
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They both had ideological purpose but the difference is that this giant Orthodox cathedrals in Poland where built for ideological purpose in the first place, to show that Poland is conquered.
How cathedral, which was built in early 20th century can be symbols of conquest? And who determined it? Pilsudski's goverment? According your logic, all buildings which were erected in Poland during 19th century, were symbols of conquest.

By the way, Palace of Culture in Warsaw was designed by Soviet architect Lev Rudnev (and even was named after Stalin). When you are planning to blow it up? You have a very selective opinion about the "symbols of conquest".

Last edited by AlekseyVT; August 19th, 2010 at 03:05 PM.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 02:56 PM   #31
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Moscow allways been beautiful
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Old August 19th, 2010, 04:12 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by AlekseyVT View Post
According to this logic, Stalin declared that the Soviet people must be atheists and the churches lost practical meaning.

In 1938 there were 3.8 million Orthodox people in Poland.

It's a pity that the current generation of Poles continue to support these nationalistic tendencies. Poland for Poles!
It's a pity that Americans support nationalistic tendencies. It's a pity that French does it. And it's a pity that Russians do it...And for whom You would like Poland to be?
For Chinese?

It seems You know little about Poland and history of II WW. In 1938 there were 3.8 Orthodox and then Stalin with Roosevelt and Churchill made a little border shift in Jalta...Suddenly most of the pre-war polish orthodox became happy citizens of USSR....including those who lived in Lviv...

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How cathedral, which was built in early 20th century can be symbols of conquest? And who determined it? Pilsudski's goverment? According your logic, all buildings which were erected in Poland during 19th century, were symbols of conquest.
Not all. It depends what kind of buildings and where they were erected. And the place where this eastern orthodox church stood was.. inappropriate.
It can be symbol of domination.

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prawosł...ny_w_Warszawie

This church for example is still were it was built in XIX century.

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By the way, Palace of Culture in Warsaw was designed by Soviet architect Lev Rudnev (and even was named after Stalin). When you are planning to blow it up? You have a very selective opinion about the "symbols of conquest".
That is why many people wants to destroy it. Even our minister of foreign affairs Radosław Sikorski...The plans are on the table. Unfortunately it's unpractical for many reasons...let it stand, who cares.
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Last edited by D.J.; August 19th, 2010 at 05:42 PM.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 04:37 PM   #33
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Quote:
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How cathedral, which was built in early 20th century can be symbols of conquest?
You know there were many uprisings in Poland right?

Quote:
And who determined it? Pilsudski's goverment? According your logic, all buildings which were erected in Poland during 19th century, were symbols of conquest.
Come on giant Orthodox cathedra in the middle of catholic city? It's quite provocative if you ask me.

Quote:
By the way, Palace of Culture in Warsaw was designed by Soviet architect Lev Rudnev (and even was named after Stalin). When you are planning to blow it up? You have a very selective opinion about the "symbols of conquest".
Some (stupid) people would like the idea but Pkin is a public building.
Orthodox churches in Warsaw served mostly the Russian army so after independance they weren't really needed anymore.

Quote:
In 1938 there were 3.8 million Orthodox people in Poland.
Mostly in the east (Ukrainians) but not in Warsaw.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 07:42 PM   #34
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Aleksey, you are funny. Poles aren't barbarians.
Regardless of beauty of this catedral, there was no use to keep such a enormous building, symbol of russian occupation in the middle of one of the biggest squers in capital of former "Priwislanski kraj". The reason was simple; the small number of orthodox in Warsaw, after russian army reatreted(sorry, they were advancing in another direction).
They still had some tamples, even after this demolition. They have got some up to this day, you can find out informations easily.
But, of course, we "destroyed all".

Curiosity; how Pilsudski could decide to demolish this building, when he was't in polish government, not even in administration; he was resting after he reatired from politics in early 20'. He came back in 1926, the catedral was a pile of bricks back than.

And Stalin had no ideological reasons, because in USSR religion was widely tolerated

At the end I would like to add, there is sad principle: triumphant powers always remove disliked symbols, monumentes; polish military graveyard in Lviv, is most common exemple.
p.s: it's my first written text in english since 2005, i guess, so sorry for mistakes.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 07:44 PM   #35
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Why orthodox churches in Poland are built in places named after Lithuania? Plac Litewski, Plac Wilenska. Interesting.

Last edited by Index_LT; August 19th, 2010 at 07:49 PM.
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Old August 20th, 2010, 09:19 AM   #36
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Moscow allways been beautiful
I agree with you. I think that this thread must be closed or renamed. Each major world city was rebuilt during centuries due to increasing of population. It's like to create thread "When Paris used to be beautiful" or "When Warsaw used to be beautiful".
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Old August 20th, 2010, 09:42 AM   #37
AlekseyVT
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Aleksey, you are funny. Poles aren't barbarians.
Regardless of beauty of this catedral, there was no use to keep such a enormous building, symbol of russian occupation in the middle of one of the biggest squers in capital of former "Priwislanski kraj". The reason was simple; the small number of orthodox in Warsaw, after russian army reatreted(sorry, they were advancing in another direction).
I'm afraid, you are funny. I have already quoted your compatriot and eyewitnesses who described the destruction of Orthodox churches (and not only this cathedral) "barbaric action". I'm certainly not saying that "Poles are barbarians".

What about reconstruction of Moscow in 1930s, I also sured that many acts were barbaric (although reconstruction in general was necessary due to increasing of population). But Bolsheviks built many quality buildings and wide streets and avenues instead of destroyed churches and temples. Now these buildings appreciated, and the streets play an important role in the Moscow life as the population of capital has increased three times compared to 1930s.

However, I like many experts and ordinary Muscovites critical about destruction of cultural monuments during the reconstruction. Bolsheviks destroyed the buildings which was considered the legacy of the "imperial regime". In early 1990s some Russian preudo-liberals offered to destroy the buildings which they considered "monuments of the communistic regime". If we will follow these ideological principles, it's possible to destroy half of Moscow.

Unfortunately, ordinary Poles were not able to be critical in comparison to the actions of their government and their compatriots in general.
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Old August 22nd, 2010, 04:29 PM   #38
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So sad that the communists destroyed all the classical architecture
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Old August 22nd, 2010, 08:44 PM   #39
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So sad that the communists destroyed all the classical architecture
I can load here photos of the classical buildings near the Kremlin and in other parts of Moscow (like in other Russian cities), but I'm don't want to waste my time on this.
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Old September 21st, 2010, 01:02 AM   #40
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Guys ! What about you saying ? This photo of Moscow took in 1865 . You can say the same about Paris ,Vienna and a lots of other cities . Capitalism was only coming . Most of this 2-4 floors buildings was destroyed in 1880-1910 years . Naturally this more 500 churches with gold domes and belltowers was very impresive among 2-3 storeys buildings . But when buildings got 5-7 floors this was other picture . I not say about 8-12 floors of Stalin s buildings .
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