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Old April 7th, 2010, 11:06 PM   #1
openlyJane
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The Georgian Quarter

What do people think is the future for this area of fantastic architectural heritage of ours?
Falkner Square?
St Bride's Church?
Gambier Terrace? etc etc
How do people see its development and regeneration?
Do people see its future as a socially 'mixed' area, as it is now - complete with poorly maintained structures and badly partitioned apartments etc or how do they see it being rejuvenated and its architectural integrity maintained?
A mix of offices, hotels, homes, galleries etc?
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Old April 8th, 2010, 12:11 AM   #2
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For some views of the area, see Liverpool's Historic Canning Area website here...
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Old April 8th, 2010, 12:13 AM   #3
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seemingly pretty dire, as this thread title suggests that Liverpool only has one Georgian quarter!
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Old April 8th, 2010, 12:45 AM   #4
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I thought the Canning Street conservation area was generally referred to as Liverpool's 'Georgian Quarter' despite the wealth of Georgian architecture around the rest of the city.
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Old April 8th, 2010, 10:42 AM   #5
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I...

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Old April 8th, 2010, 10:46 AM   #6
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Old April 8th, 2010, 11:12 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by openlyJane View Post
What do people think is the future for this area of fantastic architectural heritage of ours?
Falkner Square?
St Bride's Church?
Gambier Terrace? etc etc
How do people see its development and regeneration?
Do people see its future as a socially 'mixed' area, as it is now - complete with poorly maintained structures and badly partitioned apartments etc or how do they see it being rejuvenated and its architectural integrity maintained?
A mix of offices, hotels, homes, galleries etc?
There are a few ways to preserve it.
  1. One is to get rid of the poorly setout sub division of flats in many of the buildings.
  2. Gentrify it more.
  3. Working class families do not want to be there and should not be there. They should be where family facilities are superior. It is not a family environment. Move the working class families out to superior family accommodation.
  4. Another is, have new buildings inside and on the edge of the quarter should be similar to the existing designs to extend and reclaim the size of the area in its original style.
  5. A further measure is to have an underground station in the district as the Wapping Tunnel runs under the district. That will raise its appeal and get investors to take note.
The problem in getting developers to build is that they are focused on the docks waters. The city is moving there, which are much more attractive locations, so demand will be near the water.

Liverpool has many Georgian buildings, however the district is all one style.

Last edited by TommyMogan; April 8th, 2010 at 11:19 AM.
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Old April 8th, 2010, 11:22 AM   #8
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So this is what all those posts on other threads mentioning the 'Georgian Quarter' were all about.

I agree that the name is silly - especially as many of the properties aren't really Georgian but built in that style. I also have problems with the 'cultural quarter'. I can see why these terms were originally deployed as part of a strategy to repackage the city but I think they are shelf life expired.

It's also a very diverse area with lots of different flavours depending on where you establish the boundaries. It has changed dramatically over the last few decades - to describe it as a roller coaster ride would be an understatement. Originally it stretched as far east as Crown Street but much was lost in the 70s as dilapidated buildings were pulled down rather than restored. If you look at the state of the terrace opposite what is now Lipa, much of Hope Street was in this state less than 15 years ago.

It's a very mixed area with people who are still living in unmodernised since the the 50s accommodation often living next door or a few doors away from people living in expensively restored properties. As properties become vacant the tendency is to modernise them as quickly as possible and get them on the market. LCC is encouraging owners to sell the properties as houses rather than break them up into flats. There are also a few pockets of social housing that fit in nicely. Shops that used to exist somewhere like Mount Street have long gone.

In terms of what needs to be done about it, I guess the most important thing is to maintain its integrity - and prevent developers like Maghull cramming in flats wherever the opportunity presents itself. The fringes also need protecting, JBH being an example of what happens to buildings that are part of the fabric of this area but aren't officially recognised as such.

I expect the pace of regeneration to be sustained but I'm slightly concerned by the gradual disappearance of people who rent (at peppercorn rent levels).

In terms of what I would like to see - I'd like to see the walls at Blackburne House removed and a public 'square' (rather than a car park) created instead. It would be good to see another restaurant or something on the right hand side of Federation House (where ego is now used to be a brick wall!) and the former homeopathic hospital developed with care, ditto the sixties poly extension further up. It would be good to see a decent design built on the car park of JBH and the side of the Phil facing Myrtle Street to have an active interface with the street. The part of Myrtle Street between Catherine Street and the shopping parade has a lot of potential so I would like to see that realised and perhaps the shopping parade rebuilt as something appropriate for the C21. Catherine Street could support a hotel or two. St Philip Neri's beautiful gardens should be more accessible to the general public and more should be made of St James's Gardens - especially the disused promenades behind the Chapter House. St Andrews Church does badly need rescuing and turned into a useful space - what an addition it would make to Rodney Street. St Brides church may look frayed at the edges but it's a local power house of religious and other events that is much loved by the local community.

I could go on forever but I'll stop. In a nutshell we just need to make sure than no more of it is lost.
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Old April 8th, 2010, 11:34 AM   #9
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I'd actually love to see a slight diversification in land use, with a few more pavement cafes, shops and galleries being introduced at ground level. It is a heavily residential area, so bars wouldnt really be possible, but it is indeed a great area. Unfortunately, it is not one that most visitors see as they only tend to go as far as Hope Street. We need more reasons for visitors to get up that end of town so they are exposed to a greater range of areas that give a good impression. Also, small retail outlets provide a means of economic growth for small scale business people.
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Old April 8th, 2010, 11:34 AM   #10
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and I don't mean those that are vertically challenged.
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Old April 8th, 2010, 11:36 AM   #11
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BTW the Merseyside Trade Union Community and Unemployed Resource Centre on Hardman and Hope is up for auction - so this might create opportunities for much bead rattling.
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Old April 8th, 2010, 12:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyMogan View Post
There are a few ways to preserve it.
  1. One is to get rid of the poorly setout sub division of flats in many of the buildings.
  2. Gentrify it more.
  3. Working class families do not want to be there and should not be there. They should be where family facilities are superior. It is not a family environment. Move the working class families out to superior family accommodation.
  4. Another is, have new buildings inside and on the edge of the quarter should be similar to the existing designs to extend and reclaim the size of the area in its original style.
  5. A further measure is to have an underground station in the district as the Wapping Tunnel runs under the district. That will raise its appeal and get investors to take note.
The problem in getting developers to build is that they are focused on the docks waters. The city is moving there, which are much more attractive locations, so demand will be near the water.

Liverpool has many Georgian buildings, however the district is all one style.


You surprise me here John because in the past you have advocated demolition for properties giving rise to fuel poverty which surely these must do without the cavity wall insulation and single glazed wiondow they have
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Old April 8th, 2010, 02:06 PM   #13
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.....

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Old April 8th, 2010, 05:25 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by openlyJane View Post
Some interesting ideas! I think the idea of an underground link is fantastic - but maybe just too much to hope for.
It has been seriously proposed in the past.

Quote:
I certainly think that ground level galleries and tea/coffee houses would also be good - but there is hardly anybody around to use and sustain them.
The area is on the edge of the centre and the centre is moving towards the water in a triangular shape from Dock Rd/Parliament St-Waterloo Dock- Just above Lime St Station. Once the CC is out of the way the city centre may expand beyond the dock water areas once these areas are built. So do not expect anything big in the Georgian Quarter soon. The underground station should improve matters - they always do. Then the cultural aspects should take hold a the city expands and other cultured people are attracted into the city. Relying on many of the locals to be cultured overnight is asking too much.

As regards to the buildings the confused other poster was on about, the name says Tommy, quality historic buildings are worth keeping as in this quarter. Those aimed at poorer families have to be insulated to hell to keep people out of fuel poverty and that means new buildings.
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Old April 8th, 2010, 11:07 PM   #15
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Ok, I know this area well, and its on the edge of my patch. So I would do:

Promote single occupancy were possible, to ecourage families and single occupancy houses - as they were built for and are very much in demand.

Where existing divided houses are renovated, then the council should limit them to a flat per floor, so more spacious accommodation is provided, and to discourage developers from trying to squeeze buildings for everything they can.

New townhouses should be built on disused sites in the area.

The corner of Myrtle and Catharine Street should be developed and the old disused uni building renovated and used, perhaps apartments or as a breeding centre for new start up creative/software companies for local people and uni grads

The uni accomodation in current Victorian/Georgian houses should be vacanted and put back to housing for private sale, e.g. Parliament Street/Percy Street and from the Cali to Hope Street. The rather shite 60s/70s student blocks at the side of the Phil to be demolished and replaced with dense townhouses with basement parking and small gardens at the rear.

The student housing on Bedford Street South to be replaced with private housing.

Replace all substandard paving with durable and easily maintained quality paving making the streetscape more attractive.

Plant trees where-ever possible to give the area a more green feel and help reduce polution

Relocate hostels/homes for druggies and drunks to other areas, unfortunately they do put people off and do leave smashed glass everywhere

Rebuild/densify Parliament Street all the way up to Smithdown Road

Reconnect Myrtle Street all the way up to Crown Street, and all other streets towards Toxteth and Kensington - helping to reconnect the area

Rebuild housing round the Oxford Pub on Oxford Street up to Taskers and Mount Vernon
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Old April 8th, 2010, 11:29 PM   #16
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Old April 8th, 2010, 11:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by openlyJane View Post
At last, a direct and genuine response; good ideas - but alas too late to maintain my interest and involvement ( nothing personal, Dreamer:)
I wish all of the decent contibutors well in their endeavours - but maybe this forum is a dead-end and one that is bound to lead to unnecessary grief!
I reckon when/if I check-in in some future time that nothing much will have changed.
Adieu
Thats a shame Jane, as its a healthy and positive thing to have your ideas and opinions challenged, and as others have said apart from the squabbles you have made some really good contributions. The Liverpool forum needs all sorts of people from all other the city to keep it alive and current, so maybe you should reconsider?
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Old April 9th, 2010, 12:30 AM   #18
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Quote:
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Ok, I know this area well, and its on the edge of my patch. So I would do:

Promote single occupancy were possible, to ecourage families and single occupancy houses - as they were built for and are very much in demand.
Good suggestions. What will accelerate the process is an underground metro station. Developers and investors will then move in. Underground stations always make an area desirable. The city needs to be proactive and invest in proper economic growth generating infrastructure.

I'm sure right now the demand for a station is low. Once it is there the demand will rise and the inward investment will move up quite quickly.

Have the metro station with direct connections to the airport, if an airport station is built, and the attractiveness of the district will rocket with the well off. There is talk of a high speed terminal at Edge Hill, which is one stop away.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 11:12 AM   #19
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Because it's a residential area it's easy to under estimate just how busy it gets (at certain times of the day). Hope Street has periods when it's absolutely heaving and all the restaurants are full from the everyman bistro to the Blackburne House cafe with tables outside at the Philharmonic pub, ego, 60 Hope and the Quarter, and when the everyman and the Phil empty at the same time it creates a great ambience that is different from elsewhere in town.

I think one more restaurant between Blackburne Place and Canning Street is a goer. The Masonic Hall (in Hope Street) would make a great hotel (or something) and Maryland Street would come more into the picture if it weren't just a tad too studente - it's quite attractive down there.

It will be interesting to see what becomes of the Grade 2 listed building on the corner of Hope and Hardman that I mention above.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 08:37 PM   #20
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I guess we will have to see what happens with the Phil, it would be better to go to a much bigger site as this would enable better facilities and space. However I worry if the Phil did move to another area of town Hope Street would be affected
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