DR Congo Armed Forces.

[Juhans]

The Country you have to defend is huge. You need billions and billions of dollars to really build up a credible defence. Do not send MONUC out. Try to negotiate by asking to send some North-European troops.

[BUTEMBO21]

Originally Posted by Juhans

The Country you have to defend is huge. You need billions and billions of dollars to really build up a credible defence. Do not send MONUC out. Try to negotiate by asking to send some North-European troops.

Other than the some Air logistics. they do nothing.

I know the country is massive, but its our responsibilities to built and secure it. Monuc has been here for 10 years and people still die everyday.

I don't expect anyone to secure my house more than me. I can only secure my own house better and sure.

North Europeans troops would find it very difficult because of the environment , terrain and not understanding the issues.

You can only win or be positively effective only if you understand the roots of the problems.

Thanks for the well wish though.

[okapi88]

Russia today
Programs: XL Reports, 21 May, 2010
Blue helmets: peace and dishonor Part 1

http://rt.com/About_Us/Programmes/XL...1/572287.html#

[okapi88]

edit

[MBA-Congo]

[BUTEMBO21]

Welcome back okapi88 long time.


Thanks for the video. unfortunately i can't watch the video. If i do it will just give me so much hate.

[screenshotartist]

Originally Posted by BUTEMBO21

Welcome back okapi88 long time.


Thanks for the video. unfortunately i can't watch the video. If i do it will just give me so much hate.

So much hate that you will not them just to leave to shoot and kill them


Just try to watch the video on the link posted by Okapi to understand why you will feel like shooting them rather than letting them go in peace

[manicongo5]

The problem with the monuc is that many of monuc soldiers come from countries where there is no notion of accountability(pakistan,india,sri lanka,.....etc...).Pakistanis and indians are basically thieves who go into monuc for opportunities to make money.If it was down to me,all these people will never put their feet in congo

[MBA-Congo]

Some of this Indian also have business associate across the border in the Indian colony of East Africa. They partake in illicit traffic trafficking gold and other minerals. Then you have a legacy of conquest in Kivu, no one is going to defend the people in Kivu expect themselves. You can't attain peace with politicians and senators who are one-sided or under opposing interest. Government soliders are from there have intergrated into the service but still political/economic interest trumps moral obligation one has for civilian population. A provincial leader must rise up that can unite the many factions if not your looking at the first slave colony of the modern age. Prositution is already rampant, my cousin just moved with our family from Bukavu she was under my grandmother's care but she died now she's in Lubumbashi totaly bewildered. In the coming years I have a feeling that if the local situation is not handled locally most of Congo will shut there eyes to what happening in Kivu why involve yourself in an endless conflict having parents send their kids into combat to a situation no one wants to man up and take responsibilty for. Economic intereset shouldn't trump moral obligation esp. when it comes to your own people and women. At the end of the day I want Monuc out, more government troops are needed to reinforce the area but final outcome to changing the situation will eventually come at the hands of the local population.

[BUTEMBO21]

Originally Posted by MBA-Congo

Some of this Indian also have business associate across the border in the Indian colony of East Africa. They partake in illicit traffic trafficking gold and other minerals. Then you have a legacy of conquest in Kivu, no one is going to defend the people in Kivu expect themselves. You can't attain peace with politicians and senators who are one-sided or under opposing interest. Government soliders are from there have intergrated into the service but still political/economic interest trumps moral obligation one has for civilian population. A provincial leader must rise up that can unite the many factions if not your looking at the first slave colony of the modern age. Prositution is already rampant, my cousin just moved with our family from Bukavu she was under my grandmother's care but she died now she's in Lubumbashi totaly bewildered. In the coming years I have a feeling that if the local situation is not handled locally most of Congo will shut there eyes to what happening in Kivu why involve yourself in an endless conflict having parents send their kids into combat to a situation no one wants to man up and take responsibilty for. Economic intereset shouldn't trump moral obligation esp. when it comes to your own people and women. At the end of the day I want Monuc out, more government troops are needed to reinforce the area but final outcome to changing the situation will eventually come at the hands of the local population.

There we go again. Ignoring the existence of Mai-Mai and accusing hard working people again.

That's total BS. no parent ever send their their child into combat. most children are forced to go into combat. and prostitution is simply poverty that forces people. Just like there is lot of prostitution in none combat cities or regions.

Like the Kulunas that were terrorizing people and even killing and prostitution in Kinshasa, wanna say there is war there or the parents sends their children to be kulunas? some send their children to be prostitutes because of misery of extreme poverty while national politicians are enjoying pocketing the money. then come and say there is no money to build schools or roads.

How do you changes the situation when you have a rebellion that is supported by the foreigners and an army that's incapable of containing that rebellion?

Locals have Mai-Mai resistance, yet, they receive no help from the government .

and now the government has integrated Tutsis ex Rwandan soldiers into the army and then deploy them in the whole region. and then they live the Mai-Mai out. thats why Mai-Mai have made alliances with FDLR most of the time. In Uvira south Kivu there is a new auto-self defence by young people in the region and now Kabila is threathening thing them.

There is so much going on that sending people to join Mai-mai. talk about locals taking matters into their own hands. Mai-mai are locals, they aren't imported.

Economic interest? some people must feed their children and wives. thats everywhere. so if they join mai-mai, who is going to feed their families?
and JOKA's visits into Bukavu, Goma, Butembo, Uvira to show people that there is security when he is excluding Congolese and integrating foreigners into the army means something is being planned.
Business people have been getting assassinated in east by "Men in military Uniforms", Journalist been killed by Men in Uniforms". what are those men in Uniforms scared of? For someone is commandeering them.




Over in Uele district its the same. government soldiers failing to protect the people. there isn't economic interests there as you have been accusing Kivu. How do you explain that?

[MBA-Congo]

Of course the Mai-Mai are there on the ground but do you honestly think that the local business head in control of mining interest have no say in the manner. Politicians are easily paid off, look at the guy Rwanda paid to start an agricultural project in North Kivu. He fled with the money and it was brought to people attention that parallel interest runs in the local government. You can't attain peace in a divided assembly, nor is it the role of the central government to engage in the fire pit of a provinical assembly that is not in order. Ethics and values are lacking in most assemblies, no one wants to take responsiblity for their action nor gear the course for progress. How many peace accords are going to be signed in Goma? How do you want the central government to work with parallel interest?

The military is integrated with all players in Kivu, government soliders are also from Kivu all are elements from the old mixage process so who is commanding them is a local affair.

[BUTEMBO21]

Originally Posted by MBA-Congo

Of course the Mai-Mai are there on the ground but do you honestly think that the local business head in control of mining interest have no say in the manner. Politicians are easily paid off, look at the guy Rwanda paid to start an agricultural project in North Kivu.

How many businessmen that have mining interest? People like Antoine Musanganya, a long time successul businessman. Vanny another successfull businessman. i can count 10 longtime successfull businessmen. Others are small businessmen like Bwinika Family that have been doing good and making the city run.

Other than the guy they showed on BBc. I would love to know who are the other "Business Head with Mining interests" you have been mentioning.


The Agriculture in Nord and Sud Kivu Provinces are controled by Villagers. What city businessmen do is they go to the villages to buy Agri products and procuce and they go sell in the big cities.

No businessman even own 100 hectares of land.

He fled with the money and it was brought to people attention that parallel interest runs in the local government. You can't attain peace in a divided assembly, nor is it the role of the central government to engage in the fire pit of a provinical assembly that is not in order. Ethics and values are lacking in most assemblies, no one wants to take responsiblity for their action nor gear the course for progress. How many peace accords are going to be signed in Goma? How do you want the central government to work with parallel interest?

Who signed the peace accord in Goma? isn't that the Central government -CNDP- Mai-Mai.

Do you know why Mai-Mai took guns again?

The military is integrated with all players in Kivu, government soliders are also from Kivu all are elements from the old mixage process so who is commanding them is a local affair.

What does local affairs have to do with Commanding the Military?

Who is the Supreme Commander of the Army? Governors , Mayors, Businessmen don't control the army or the police.

Thats the President TO Defence minister, to General Joint Chief of Staff to Land/Air/Naval/Special forces to the Regional/Provincial L General to Operations Commander currently Colonel Dolphin Kahimbi.

Where do you see Local politicians and businessmen?

The Border is guarded and enforced by the Central Government. With agency OFFIDA ( Border Custom) and the Army and Police which are all under the Ceentral executive powers.

Again where do you see Locals in that?

Security of the country is in the Responsibity of the Central government.

Thats in every country.

If you want the Provinces to be responsible of the province's security. Then It will have it own army and it Commander in Chief. and that means the province is now a Sovereign Republic or state.

When BDK was started running things in Bas-Congo, do you forget what happened?

Did you forget how the Enyele terrorized 100s of 1000s sof people and killings? who responsibility was to bring peace and order there?

Whats the role of the central government btw?

Because we have a worthless government.

Thats like saying that Donald Trump and other businessmen are responsible for America's security or NY security.

Since do businessmen became seucrity responsibles?

[MBA-Congo]

BDK isn't a militia it's a religious movement and the head was indeed a senator right? Only difference is he isn't under the payroll of an opposing government. Equatuer rebellion we saw the nutcase fed to the teeth with conspiracy squashed once again political but no foriegn involvement. But in the case of Kivu proxy prevails. Do you seriously think without the business apparatus in Kivu the current situation will remain?Security is indeed government responsiblity but it doesn't help when centrifugal forces within the local assembly and business undermine the situation by assisting or collobrating with a foriegn government.

North Kivu has been dubbed the “African powder-keg” since it is the epicentre of the First African
World War, the conflict that has been ravaging Congo since 1996. This image, even if oversimplified,
refers to a context characterized by an ongoing war which reproduces itself in a situation
of an “endlessly failing but never quite fully failed state”. The rivalry between “indigenous people”
and people of Rwandan origin continues to foment local conflict and social breakdown. From the
eighteenth century to the present, North Kivu has been the destination of a multitude of
kinyarwanda speaking migrants, both Hutu and Tutsi, coming from the neighbouring Rwanda. In
some regions of North Kivu, such as Masisi, the Banyarwanda (people from Rwanda) are now the
majority of the population and the competition between them and the “indigenous inhabitants”- a
dispute originally related to land issues – has assumed a regional dimension. This complex scenario
constitutes the background of the rise of Eugene Serufuli, a Hutu member of the Banyarwanda
community who is now the governor of North Kivu. His alliance with Rwanda has made him a key
actor in the region, given the incapacity of the Kinshasa government to compete against him.
Serufuli has his own militia, the Local Defence Forces, and his own NGO, Tout pour la Paix et le
Développement, and through these two institutions he controls the political and military life and
many economic activities.

And this is the vice governor selling his own people short.

[MBA-Congo]

"People are being killed and they don’t even understand why. The war in Masisi is not a war
of the people, it is a war of politicians.... And the soldiers, they are not ready for the war to
end. There is too much to be gained in a time of war. "

Muiti Muhindo, Legal Council, Governor’s office, Goma.

[BUTEMBO21]

Originally Posted by MBA-Congo

BDK isn't a militia it's a religious movement and the head was indeed a senator right? Only difference is he isn't under the payroll of an opposing government. Equatuer rebellion we saw the nutcase fed to the teeth with conspiracy squashed once again political but no foriegn involvement. But in the case of Kivu proxy prevails. Do you seriously think without the business apparatus in Kivu the current situation will remain?
Security is indeed government responsiblity but it doesn't help when centrifugal forces within the local assembly and business undermine the situation by assisting or collobrating with a foriegn government.
And this is the vice governor selling his own people short.

It doesn't matter if BDK is a religious movement. It was cracked down after deaths of of several police and soldiers.

It facts its a Polit-religious movement.

You failed to answer how those police and soldiers died and why there was a lethal crackdown.

You answered that its the CG responsibilies to secure and defend the country.

But you keep on insisting that local business are responsible for the the security in the area. which makes no sense at all.

You mentioned Goma accords. I told you who singed the accords.

You failed to answer why Mai-Mai groups went back to take the guns.

You failed to name the so called mining interest businessmen that are at the base of the the insecurity.
You failed to name who controls the Army and the Police.
You failed to name who is responsible to secure and enforce the borders.

And i still have more questions.

Please Name or give the number these businessmen that are causing insecurity.

Do these Businessmen have their private armies? If not, how do they create the insecurity? and if the government knows that they are collaborating with the enemies, how is that the CG is not capable of punishing them?

You want the borders closed. Butembo, Goma, Bukavu import almost everything through Rwanda and and Uganda. so how would they get their imports to their cities? How would they drive cars? , Build homes and businesses?
Whats your alternatives to that?

You accuse local businessmen. which armed group do they command?

How come the CG get rid of these enemy businessmen? when CG they have the army, Police and ANR(National Intelligence Agency).

Why did the CG integrates Tutsi Nkunda Terrorist forces and ignore patriotic , Martyrs Mai-Mai out?

You accuse the local assembly of collabolating with a foreign government. Did they allow Rwandan and Uganda embassies to open in Kinshasa?

Did the sent Rwandan Ambassador to go visit Katanga?

How come you don't denounce the collaboration of the CG and the Rwandese Government that already opened an emassy in Kinshasa and soon in Katanga?

Are they the ones that open the border 24/7 now?

Do they control, secure or enforce these borders?

Did they allow Rwandan soldiers in the country last year?

And how come the CG can't get Nkunda extradited?

How come they are incapable of arresting Ntaganda? a terrorist that massacred more than 100 young men and women in Kiwanja in 2008. Instead he was given a Senior post in FARDC.


What kind of man( Central government) is incapable of securing and protecting house?

I think you know what kind of Man is that. I thin all people know that answer.

Now who is going to be next on your collaboration list list? Katanga businessmen? Since Mazembe is playing in Kagame's sponsored League cup and a Rwanda embassy to open soon in Lubumbashi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMtmXUzjaP8

Please, answer each of these questions , then we can continue the debate.

Other than that, i don't have time to continue debates over for an irresponsible , Pathetic, idiotic, moronic, Unpatriotic government.

[MBA-Congo]

Do you actually think a Rwandese embassy is going to open in Katanga, get serious I would like to see that stone laid and last the night. Its impossible to cut ties since the border are eternal as you said, opening up the embassy in Kinshasa who does it benefit at the end of the day? Security can't be attained with parallel interest which government will work effectively under such case. Soccer doesn't mean anything, Koffi Tshala different artist perform at those country what does that mean, hang Tresor Mputu? Seriously are you going to blame the central government when you have politician paid under the table by a foriegn government whose action is irresponsible , Pathetic, idiotic, moronic, Unpatriotic under those circumstance? Business doesn't need a private military when you can supplement a solider with extra cash.

Ntaganda and Nkunda but how do you go against CNDP when there support base has a face and it's local.



What would you prefer the government do since ethnic cleansing isn't a government policy. This the best time for organization unification against a common front, if the business community were true to the people they serve this would be the time to mobilize against the centrifugal forces at play. Kivu needs a clean sweep with people held responsible.

This year was declared year of social responsibilty by the president, action needs to be taken at the local level.

[BUTEMBO21]

You didn't answer the questions.

[MBA-Congo]

Originally Posted by BUTEMBO21

You didn't answer the questions.

What do you want me to answer?

[BUTEMBO21]

Originally Posted by MBA-Congo

What do you want me to answer?

Do these Businessmen have their private armies? If not, how do they create the insecurity? and if the government knows that they are collaborating with the enemies, how is that the CG is not capable of punishing them?

You want the borders closed. Butembo, Goma, Bukavu import almost everything through Rwanda and and Uganda. so how would they get their imports to their cities? How would they drive cars? , Build homes and businesses?
Whats your alternatives to that?

You accuse local businessmen. which armed group do they command?

How come the CG get rid of these enemy businessmen? when CG they have the army, Police and ANR(National Intelligence Agency).

Why did the CG integrates Tutsi Nkunda Terrorist forces and ignore patriotic , Martyrs Mai-Mai out?

You accuse the local assembly of collabolating with a foreign government. Did they allow Rwandan and Uganda embassies to open in Kinshasa?

Did the sent Rwandan Ambassador to go visit Katanga?

How come you don't denounce the collaboration of the CG and the Rwandese Government that already opened an emassy in Kinshasa and soon in Katanga?

Are they the ones that open the border 24/7 now?

Do they control, secure or enforce these borders?

Did they allow Rwandan soldiers in the country last year?

And how come the CG can't get Nkunda extradited?

How come they are incapable of arresting Ntaganda? a terrorist that massacred more than 100 young men and women in Kiwanja in 2008. Instead he was given a Senior post in FARDC.

[MBA-Congo]

To that I say open your eyes, or come with a concrete solution, what's your solution to peace and stability in Kivu? Remember peace has prevailed in Equatuer, bAS-cONGO, kATANGA, bANDUNDU, mANIEMA, both Kasai parts of Orientale minus the eastern front, don't you think that is something unique in a place were half the country was under foriegn occupation?