daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old April 25th, 2010, 05:00 PM   #21
Pansori
planquadrat
 
Pansori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London - Vilnius
Posts: 9,973
Likes (Received): 6911

The last kilometers in Belgium
67.
image hosted on flickr


68.
image hosted on flickr


69.
image hosted on flickr


70.
image hosted on flickr


71.
image hosted on flickr


72.
image hosted on flickr


Next: The Mecca of roads and motorways in Europe a.k.a. The Netherlands.
Pansori no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old April 25th, 2010, 05:03 PM   #22
Pansori
planquadrat
 
Pansori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London - Vilnius
Posts: 9,973
Likes (Received): 6911

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
That section of E40 between Oostende and Aalter is the oldest motorway in Belgium. It opened in 1940.
That might explain why it looks a little scruffy. I also assume it gets more busy on the weekdays (even though I couldn't say it was empty on Saturday either).
Pansori no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 25th, 2010, 05:05 PM   #23
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19410

E40 gets very crowded on Friday afternoons, Saturday mornings and Sunday evenings during the summer from and to the coast. Other than that, it's adequate, although the Gent - Brussels section is often congested due to the crazy commuting around Brussels (it is the city with the highest amount of commuters per capita in the world, so I've read).
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 25th, 2010, 07:24 PM   #24
msz2
Registered User
 
msz2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kielce; Civitas Kielcensis; Poland; European Socialist Union
Posts: 4,176
Likes (Received): 57

What I like very much in Belgium motorways is lightening within entire motorway.
__________________
"The European Union is doomed to failure because it is something crazy, utopian project, a monument of pride leftist intellectuals."
- Margaret Thatcher
msz2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 25th, 2010, 08:55 PM   #25
aswnl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: near Amsterdam (NL)
Posts: 932
Likes (Received): 84

Nice series.
I'm awaiting your pictures from Poland, especially the north-eastern part.
aswnl no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 25th, 2010, 09:01 PM   #26
RipleyLV
Registered User
 
RipleyLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Jelgava
Posts: 4,657
Likes (Received): 2294

Quote:
Originally Posted by aswnl View Post
Nice series.
I'm awaiting your pictures from Poland, especially the north-eastern part.
+1
RipleyLV no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 25th, 2010, 09:01 PM   #27
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19410

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
  • The best roads in general were observed in The Netherlands. Everything was more or less perfect.
Since you've traveled the recently expanded "Randweg Eindhoven" (A2/A67) it had to be. It was the only potential traffic jam spot on your trip through the Netherlands, but since the whole motorway has been widened from 2x3 to 4x3 lanes (A67 section) traffic congestion has almost completely disappeared (apart from incidents, of course).

The next objective on that route would be to widen A67 to six lanes lanes from Eindhoven to Venlo, as this is a major truck corridor that carries 20,000 trucks per day (30,000 on the A2/A67 multiplex). Compare it to the German A2 between Dortmund and Hannover.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 25th, 2010, 09:08 PM   #28
Big Cat
Registered User
 
Big Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Vilnius
Posts: 1,131
Likes (Received): 4

That Icelandic volcano turned to be a good thing after all...
Big Cat no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 25th, 2010, 10:04 PM   #29
havaska
Registered User
 
havaska's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Horwich
Posts: 255
Likes (Received): 198

Having seen the pictures of signage in France and Belgium, I have to say I much prefer the font used in Belgium. The French one is just a bit too 'shouty' for me.
havaska no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 25th, 2010, 10:13 PM   #30
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19410

The Belgian font is called "SNV". The French font is called "Caractères".
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 25th, 2010, 11:26 PM   #31
bleetz
one.man.army
 
bleetz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 793
Likes (Received): 396

I make this trip twice a year on average. It is good to see some photos as you tend to miss out on things when driving.

These are the comments that I have to make about countries that were covered:

UK

Major improvements are needed. Total motorway length is too short and surface quality is only average. However, I do like standard to which UK motorways were built, i.e. slip road length is good, hard shoulders are adequate, they are mostly 3x3 and signage is also very good (I know that this is not a popular opinion on this forum). I think that the UK should improve these things: there should be more motorways and surface quality should be improved. The rest is very good.

France

French roads are overrated because: a) you have to pay for most of them, b) they are not that great. The positive thing that stands out when you enter France from the UK is the surface quality. This along with overall motorway length are the only advantages to UK motorways. Slip road lengths are pretty good, however, I don't like the signage and too many roads are only 2x2 while most UK roads are 3x3. I would definitely rather have roads of UK quality that are free than French roads that you have to pay for. Therefore the only advantage that France has over the UK is overall motorway length (I don't think that extra surface quality is worth the money).
I think that France should improve signage and get rid of tolls.

Belgium

Very good apart from surface quality on some stretches which is dreadful, especially when compared to Dutch roads.

Netherlands

I have already mentioned before in this forum that Holland has the best roads in Europe. [It also looks like the most developed country in Europe because of other things too (supermarket quality, petrol stations, service quality, etc.).] This stretch does not really show it though. The best example of Dutch road quality is A2.

Germany

Certainly better than the UK or France but a bit of a disappointment otherwise due to average road surface quality on quite a few stretches as well poor standards in quite a few stretches (e.g. even a 2x2 road without hard shoulders can be called an autobahn!). Germany's infrastructure is surely impressive but they need to raise their game up a bit. Roads in the Netherlands are noticeably significantly better.

Poland

Mixed feelings. Roads are very inadequate but extremely good and building pace is amazing. But then you have to pay for them and there's still a long way to go to catch up with other European countries in terms of adequacy. I don't really know what to think, though you have to say that Poland is definitely the most improved country in the last 5 or so years. North East is quite an embarrassment but then its the poorest area. So, again, mixed feelings.

Lithuania

Overall adequacy of roads is a lot better than in Poland, however, the south of the country is abandoned and the Via Baltica project is stagnant. That's why the roads in the south now look worse than roads in Poland's north east (was not the case before!). Apart from Via Baltica though, national roads are very good for an Eastern European country. On the other hand, roads in cities are poor.
What needs to be done is: Via Baltica needs to be completed and road quality in cities needs to be improved. Otherwise its all quite good (though I might be a bit biased ).
__________________
This "potion" that turns you from Dr Jekyll into Mr Hyde looks an awful lot like six cans of Stella.
bleetz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 25th, 2010, 11:46 PM   #32
Superkot634
Requiem for a dream
 
Superkot634's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Szczecin
Posts: 3,775
Likes (Received): 563

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleetz View Post
Poland
Mixed feelings. Roads are very inadequate but extremely good and building pace is amazing. But then you have to pay for them and there's still a long way to go to catch up with other European countries in terms of adequacy. I don't really know what to think, though you have to say that Poland is definitely the most improved country in the last 5 or so years. North East is quite an embarrassment but then its the poorest area. So, again, mixed feelings.
Nonsense... Most national roads are in good condition... in good condition is 60% of roads (DK).
__________________
Człowiek jest wielki nie przez to, co posiada, lecz przez to, kim jest; nie przez to, co ma, lecz przez to, czym dzieli się z innymi. — Jan Paweł II
Superkot634 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 25th, 2010, 11:49 PM   #33
piotr71
Registered User
 
piotr71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Beskidy
Posts: 4,300

Quote:
Originally Posted by msz2 View Post
What I like very much in Belgium motorways is lightening within entire motorway.
Not all Belgian motorways are lit. Thanks to Pansori we have an opportunity to see one without lightening on along some parts of its length. Check the stretch from French border towards Gent, however, it's just minor exception.
piotr71 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2010, 12:29 AM   #34
Pansori
planquadrat
 
Pansori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London - Vilnius
Posts: 9,973
Likes (Received): 6911

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superkot634 View Post
Nonsense... Most national roads are in good condition... in good condition is 60% of roads (DK).
I think it's an apples an oranges situation here.
Bleetz has mentioned the adequacy of roads while your reply is about quality. These are two different things in this case.

I would say on our way through Poland (2, A2, S8, 63, 61, 16) road quality was good for about 80% of the distance if not more. Certainly more than 60% . In fact, there were only a few stretches of rather bad road somewhere between S8 and the PL/LT border. The rest was more or less excellent in terms of road quality. Signage was good pretty much all of the time: clear, simple and consistent.

However, adequacy-wise the situation is different. Perhaps the only stretches that were really adequate in the given situation were the A2 and S8. For the rest of the distance the road went through relatively dense residential areas and towns and despite being of excellent quality the speed was very often limited to 70km/h or less which slows things down. So here you have a situation with a nice local road used by transit/international traffic that usually includes loads of heavy trucks going right via the town centers which is, of course, not adequate. Anyway, I'll post my photos later to illustrate that.

Last edited by Pansori; April 26th, 2010 at 12:38 AM.
Pansori no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2010, 12:55 AM   #35
Miguel_PL
Registered User
 
Miguel_PL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: zero dwa dwa
Posts: 533
Likes (Received): 49

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
I think it's an apples an oranges situation here.
Bleetz has mentioned the adequacy of roads while your reply is about quality. These are two different things in this case.

I would say on our way through Poland (2, A2, S8, 63, 61, 16) road quality was good for about 80% of the distance if not more. Certainly more than 60% . In fact, there were only a few stretches of rather bad road somewhere between S8 and the PL/LT border. The rest was more or less excellent in terms of road quality. Signage was good pretty much all of the time: clear, simple and consistent.

However, adequacy-wise the situation is different. Perhaps the only stretches that were really adequate in the given situation were the A2 and S8. For the rest of the distance the road went through relatively dense residential areas and towns and despite being of excellent quality the speed was very often limited to 70km/h or less which slows things down. So here you have a situation with a nice local road used by transit/international traffic that usually includes loads of heavy trucks going right via the town centers which is, of course, not adequate. Anyway, I'll post my photos later to illustrate that.
Totally agree... I share your opinion about Polish roads quality. They're good but in terms of adequacy there's still a lot to do. Driving across my country often makes me mad because of the huge congestion on the 2 lane roads and the necessity of dangerous overpassing (not to mention an average speed). That will remain our problem till the basic network of expressways is built. Overall, the improvement is impressive and in circa 5/6 - year - time our infrastructural situation will be much different
Miguel_PL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2010, 01:20 AM   #36
piotr71
Registered User
 
piotr71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Beskidy
Posts: 4,300

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superkot634 View Post
Nonsense... Most national roads are in good condition... in good condition is 60% of roads (DK).
Bleetz said nothing on contrary to this 60%. He has valuated quality of our roads really high. I think we should read what visitors to our country say and let them express their own opinion, no matter how good or bad it would have been. Just let's not shout if some wouldn't like roads in Poland.

By the way, we (with Pansori) almost approached the Netherlands

Last edited by piotr71; April 26th, 2010 at 01:27 AM.
piotr71 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2010, 04:05 AM   #37
brisavoine
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: desconocida
Posts: 18,049
Likes (Received): 2346

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
due to the crazy commuting around Brussels (it is the city with the highest amount of commuters per capita in the world, so I've read).
Probably not true.
brisavoine no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2010, 04:12 AM   #38
brisavoine
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: desconocida
Posts: 18,049
Likes (Received): 2346

Quote:
Originally Posted by msz2 View Post
What I like very much in Belgium motorways is lightening within entire motorway.
The great thing about Belgian motorways is the giant Spirou characters posted on the sides of the motorways. But they only exist along the motorways in Wallonia I believe.

Concerning lighting, it's one of the things that I find the most annoying in Belgium. Driving at night on the Belgian motorways is not relaxing at all due to the constant lighting. I much prefer driving in the middle of France at night when you can drive for more than 100 km without crossing a single city and seeing a single light, with only the stars above you. For example the A75 at night between Issoire and Lodève is just unbelievable. 250 km totally out of this world, more than 1,000 meters above sea-level.
brisavoine no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2010, 04:32 AM   #39
brisavoine
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: desconocida
Posts: 18,049
Likes (Received): 2346

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleetz View Post
France

French roads are overrated because: a) you have to pay for most of them, b) they are not that great. The positive thing that stands out when you enter France from the UK is the surface quality. This along with overall motorway length are the only advantages to UK motorways. Slip road lengths are pretty good, however, I don't like the signage and too many roads are only 2x2 while most UK roads are 3x3. I would definitely rather have roads of UK quality that are free than French roads that you have to pay for. Therefore the only advantage that France has over the UK is overall motorway length (I don't think that extra surface quality is worth the money).
I think that France should improve signage and get rid of tolls.
What some people seem to have a hard time understanding is that motorways are only a very small fraction of French roads. There are about 12,000 km of French motorways, but in total there are about 1 million km of roads in France, so the motorways make up barely 1% of the total French road network.

For me the greatest thing about French roads is not the motorways, it's the non-motorway roads, many of which are spectacularly beautiful, and usually with excellent smooth surface. Besides, the low density in France means there isn't much traffic outside of the cities (except in some very dense regions like Greater Paris, French Flanders or Alsace, but the rest of France is pretty empty), and the roads (at least national and departmental roads) tend to have long straight lines (the policy of straightening French roads has been continuously implemented since the middle of the 18th century), so you can drive pretty fast on them, even though the maximum speed allowed is of course 90 km/h, and of course I cannot possibly suggest you should drive faster than that. .

One of the greatest road experiences I had was a few years ago driving at night from Millau to Albi on the D999. The excellent road was all for myself (I crossed maybe one car every 10 minutes at the most), there were few villages around, so I could drive pretty fast, and at some point the road runs along the top ridge of a plateau that is part of the Montagne Noire (Black Mountain), so I could see all south-west France below me, the forests of fir trees around me, and the stars above. I had this feeling of being far away from civilization, like driving in the sky... Of course if you only drive on the A61 motorway, you won't have that feeling. The A61 is boring in comparison.

PS: For an idea of what I meant, these are a few pics of the D999 that I found on Google Street View. On that section of the D999 (the easternmost section), I drove at sunset and I didn't cross a single car for 30 km.

[img]http://i41.************/w7xzjb.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i41.************/fylq83.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i41.************/sdo6sl.jpg[/img]

The steep climb after Saint-Sernin-sur-Rance at night was also pretty impressive, but Google Street View doesnt cover it. I was driving a heavy Mercedes (diesel), and I thought it would never make the climb.

I tell you, compared to the D and N roads, French motorways (A) are really boring, with a few exceptions.

Last edited by brisavoine; April 26th, 2010 at 05:13 AM.
brisavoine no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2010, 12:09 PM   #40
Superkot634
Requiem for a dream
 
Superkot634's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Szczecin
Posts: 3,775
Likes (Received): 563

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
I think it's an apples an oranges situation here.
Bleetz has mentioned the adequacy of roads while your reply is about quality. These are two different things in this case.

I would say on our way through Poland (2, A2, S8, 63, 61, 16) road quality was good for about 80% of the distance if not more. Certainly more than 60% . In fact, there were only a few stretches of rather bad road somewhere between S8 and the PL/LT border. The rest was more or less excellent in terms of road quality. Signage was good pretty much all of the time: clear, simple and consistent.

However, adequacy-wise the situation is different. Perhaps the only stretches that were really adequate in the given situation were the A2 and S8. For the rest of the distance the road went through relatively dense residential areas and towns and despite being of excellent quality the speed was very often limited to 70km/h or less which slows things down. So here you have a situation with a nice local road used by transit/international traffic that usually includes loads of heavy trucks going right via the town centers which is, of course, not adequate. Anyway, I'll post my photos later to illustrate that.
Forgive, my mistake.
__________________
Człowiek jest wielki nie przez to, co posiada, lecz przez to, kim jest; nie przez to, co ma, lecz przez to, czym dzieli się z innymi. — Jan Paweł II
Superkot634 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autobahn, belgium, france, lithuania, motorway, roadtrip, united kingdom

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium