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Old April 15th, 2012, 05:44 AM   #2981
Gazza2
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The overcrowding in peak hour has reached ridiculous Third World levels on some lines.
Btch, Plz. Third world is like in Indonesia or India where people hang out the side and ride on the roof:





What Melbourne gets is nothing in comparison, and no different to any other big city in rush hour. I rode the MRT in singapore during rush hour. In large sections of some carriages there were no seats at all. Guess Singapore is 3rd world?
I found the Underground to be pretty crowded a couple of times too. Also 3rd world?
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Old April 15th, 2012, 05:50 AM   #2982
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Originally Posted by Gazza2
Btch, Plz. Third world is like in Indonesia or India where people hang out the side and ride on the roof:
Quite common to see people traveling on the outside of trains in Melbourne on the Lilydale, Pakenham & Frankston lines in particular but generally not in peak hour, more-so on weekends and late at night
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Old April 15th, 2012, 07:08 AM   #2983
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Btch, Plz. Third world is like in Indonesia or India where people hang out the side and ride on the roof:









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Old April 15th, 2012, 07:36 AM   #2984
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third world haha... or first world facilities with third world mentalities???

must see tokyo, that's first world facilities and mentalities...

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Old April 15th, 2012, 09:29 AM   #2985
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When is earliest likely date we will see additional train carriages coming onstream?
April 22. There are currently two trains at Newport awaiting commissioning, which will complete the 38x X'Trapolis order. The additional seven will start arriving next year.
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Old April 15th, 2012, 12:00 PM   #2986
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When is earliest likely date we will see additional train carriages coming onstream? The overcrowding in peak hour has reached ridiculous Third World levels on some lines.

It seems like a dream that a mere 30 years ago you could always be assured of a seat (and a clean, unmarked one at that) even in peak hour.
As NSWP said, an almost guaranteed seat back in the 70s was a sign of a failing system almost no body was using. I'm glad patronage is back to historical highs. If you want a seat move to Maryborough or something and catch a velo in from there.

I can't understand people that want the convenience of living in a big city with everything at their fingertips but at the same time get upset when they can't get a seat on a peak hour train. Truly first world problems.
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Old April 16th, 2012, 11:20 AM   #2987
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Originally Posted by Gazza2 View Post
Guess Singapore is 3rd world?
I found the Underground to be pretty crowded a couple of times too. Also 3rd world?
They are doing something about it: building £16b CrossRail in London and £16b HS2.

Same with Singapore, HSR between it and Kuala Lumpur.

Empty seats galore.
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Old April 16th, 2012, 11:25 AM   #2988
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Originally Posted by Mickeebee

If you've ever been to Brisbane you'll know that one way streets don't work.
Ummm please explain. I use one way streets every day in Brisbane and they work a treat, especially where there are only narrow streets available and there are challenges with topography. The only problem is the occasional interstate number plate heading your way :-)
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Old April 16th, 2012, 11:28 AM   #2989
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Originally Posted by get400

They are doing something about it: building £16b CrossRail in London
Mmm I'm not sure I'd hold the UK up as a model of responsible spending - with a debt of over 70% of GDP.
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Old April 16th, 2012, 12:23 PM   #2990
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an almost guaranteed seat back in the 70s was a sign of a failing system almost no body was using.
Yes, there hadn't been any investment infrastructure and the system was getting run down, but it was running on the outstanding legacy bequeathed by the greatest transport public servant Victoria ever had, who brought the system to outstanding efficiency. Somewhere on the Web there's a long tribute to his achievements. Perhaps someone can find it. The system was busy at peak hour but the public expectation was that if you were paying for a fare that gave you the right to a seat. Its indicative of how precipitous has been the decline in standards that some silly chatters here seek to mock me for suggesting that is an indulgence. No: not so long ago it was considered basic service. And is still considered such in some western cities not burdened by excessive immigration and gross governmental incompetence.
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Old April 16th, 2012, 12:38 PM   #2991
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Originally Posted by OneMelbGuy

Yes, there hadn't been any investment infrastructure and the system was getting run down, but it was running on the outstanding legacy bequeathed by the greatest transport public servant Victoria ever had, who brought the system to outstanding efficiency. Somewhere on the Web there's a long tribute to his achievements. Perhaps someone can find it. The system was busy at peak hour but the public expectation was that if you were paying for a fare that gave you the right to a seat. Its indicative of how precipitous has been the decline in standards that some silly chatters here seek to mock me for suggesting that is an indulgence. No: not so long ago it was considered basic service. And is still considered such in some western cities not burdened by excessive immigration and gross governmental incompetence.
I'd like to know which western cities guarantee you a seat on public transport in peak hour! Cause I've been to a LOT of western cities and they all have people who can't find seats on buses or trains in peaj times.

I think your last sentence provides a clue to your real agenda.

And exactly how long ago was it considered a 'basic service'? My old mum tells me all the time how they used to have to squeeze onto trams and buses in the 50s and 60s
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Old April 16th, 2012, 12:57 PM   #2992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianc68

I'd like to know which western cities guarantee you a seat on public transport in peak hour! Cause I've been to a LOT of western cities and they all have people who can't find seats on buses or trains in peaj times.

I think your last sentence provides a clue to your real agenda.

And exactly how long ago was it considered a 'basic service'? My old mum tells me all the time how they used to have to squeeze onto trams and buses in the 50s and 60s
Yeah, Im a bit worried about the 'excessive immigration' comment. Some people want to make Australia into the Falkland islands.

Just a few white people and some sheep. No inconvenient natives, no vegetation above ankle height, no brown or yellow people, a few token anglican churches to intone bland homilies on the odd feast day.

Well we know what happened to the Falklands and sure they got it back, but to quote the Duke, it was a close run thing.

The 1970s and 80s wasnt just decaying railway, but decaying economy generally. Hawke and Keating got us out of that rut, but the days of white bread Australia were already doomed at that point. If anything, Bob saw us as having more in common with Argentina than the Falklands, and we know how that ends. Large rural baronies, and men in khaki patrolling the streets with machine guns. This is the fate of white people countries that cant pay their way.
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Old April 16th, 2012, 01:45 PM   #2993
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Originally Posted by NoshowwithoutPunch

Yeah, Im a bit worried about the 'excessive immigration' comment. Some people want to make Australia into the Falkland islands.

Just a few white people and some sheep. No inconvenient natives, no vegetation above ankle height, no brown or yellow people, a few token anglican churches to intone bland homilies on the odd feast day.

Well we know what happened to the Falklands and sure they got it back, but to quote the Duke, it was a close run thing.

The 1970s and 80s wasnt just decaying railway, but decaying economy generally. Hawke and Keating got us out of that rut, but the days of white bread Australia were already doomed at that point. If anything, Bob saw us as having more in common with Argentina than the Falklands, and we know how that ends. Large rural baronies, and men in khaki patrolling the streets with machine guns. This is the fate of white people countries that cant pay their way.
Hehe. You know what, I'm liking you more and more. Spot on. Totally agree about Hawke and Keating too.
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Old April 16th, 2012, 03:31 PM   #2994
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They are doing something about it: building £16b CrossRail in London and £16b HS2.

Same with Singapore, HSR between it and Kuala Lumpur.

Empty seats galore.
How will HSR between KL and Singapore affect the MRT?
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Old April 16th, 2012, 03:31 PM   #2995
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Originally Posted by brianc68

Hehe. You know what, I'm liking you more and more. Spot on. Totally agree about Hawke and Keating too.
Thanks brian

I've been blogging for a while about the effects of the late lamented Patsy Adam Smith, a folk historian who put together some books on topics like gallipoli and (sadly) victorian railways.

Unfortunately she set in train a sort of folk tradition about the railways that was overly sympathetic to the staff, and to some folk-hero managers, a sort of chocolate entrepreneur take on the railways, mixed with a bit of soft-left sympathy for socialism.

And this view seems to have washed over some of the rail enthusiast fraternity, who look back on the past of victoria's railways as if it was the raj, or some pg wodehouse story of edwardian nostalgia.

No 'looking back in anger' for her.

The whole sordid and sorry history of the victorian railways passed her by, from the capital misallocation of the 1870s and 80s, the bankruptcy of 1890s victoria from which i argue it never really recovered, and on it goes.

The rose coloured lens through which people even on this forum see the railways, unable to see it for what it really is.
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Old April 16th, 2012, 05:53 PM   #2996
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The system was busy at peak hour but the public expectation was that if you were paying for a fare that gave you the right to a seat. Its indicative of how precipitous has been the decline in standards that some silly chatters here seek to mock me for suggesting that is an indulgence.
A fare does not and should never guarantee you a seat on a metropolitan train here and I challenge you to find an example elsewhere in the world that still does. Welcome to the 21st century.

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And is still considered such in some western cities not burdened by excessive immigration.
Rubbish. Again, name a city. Clearly that hasn't been the only driver behind patronage growth over the past decade anyway. Your views seem so outdated and provincial.
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Old April 17th, 2012, 12:06 AM   #2997
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http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/gl...416-1x3v8.html

Glimpse of train service in 2021 emerges
Adam Carey
April 17, 2012



The 'train service plan'.
A GLIMPSE of what Melbourne's train timetable could look like 10 years from now has emerged from a government study into building a new rail line to Monash University and Rowville.

It reveals a plan to run trains as often as every four to five minutes in rush hour on some metro lines, and once every 10 minutes outside the peak.

The three-page ''train service plan'' for the year 2021 was published as an appendix to the lengthy government-commissioned Rowville Rail Study. It also gives an early peek at projected increases to V/Line trains to Geelong, Ballarat and Bendigo once the $5 billion regional rail link opens in 2016.

The future timetable plan was uncovered by the Public Transport Users Association, which welcomed the projected boost to services but questioned why the plan was buried deep within a voluminous report.

''If implemented, this will make a huge difference to travel around Melbourne, making it easier to get around much of the city without long waits or relying on timetables,'' association president Daniel Bowen said.

But a spokesman for Public Transport Victoria cautioned that the service plan was a draft, based on projected train patronage growth over the next decade, and did not represent any government commitment. ''The figures are indicative only and do not represent the actual planned services in each year,'' the spokesman said. ''They do not represent future commitments regarding capital spending or infrastructure works.''

The Dandenong, Frankston, Blackburn, Sydenham and Craigieburn lines do best in the plan, with between 13 and 18 rush-hour trains, and trains every 10 minutes for the rest of the day.

Less well-served are some lines with stretches of single track - including Hurstbridge, Upfield, Lilydale, Belgrave and Cranbourne lines - that can be used by only one train at a time, severely restricting the ability to run more trains.

The Upfield line will see a train once every 15 minutes in the peak under the plan, while Alamein is stuck with one every 20 minutes. Services to Werribee, Williamstown and Altona also suffer a sharp drop in frequency beyond Newport station, with a mere eight rush-hour trains projected to run to busy Werribee station, and one every 20 minutes off-peak.

The plan also projects eight rush-hour trains to Geelong, and one every 15 minutes at other times.

Metro is progressively introducing a new train timetable to Melbourne. The second stage of this starts on Sunday, when 10-minute frequencies begin on some lines on weekends.
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Old April 17th, 2012, 02:57 AM   #2998
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easier to see the frequencies on a map

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Old April 17th, 2012, 03:04 AM   #2999
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So in 10 years time, Upfield will still only get a train every 20 minutes off-peak and only a miserable 15 min frequency in peak?
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Old April 17th, 2012, 03:11 AM   #3000
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yep.

it's turd.
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