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Old June 29th, 2014, 10:46 AM   #4261
robbie42
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One thing I haven't seen mentioned: part of the complexity is because the NYPD is now in the architecture business. They made Calatrava double the number of ribs. The original renderings didn't have the purlins either. Not only would have been quicker, would have also saved some $
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Old June 29th, 2014, 12:18 PM   #4262
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Yeah I think the NYPD should have stayed out of the WTC design process.
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Old June 29th, 2014, 03:07 PM   #4263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbie42 View Post
One thing I haven't seen mentioned: part of the complexity is because the NYPD is now in the architecture business. They made Calatrava double the number of ribs. The original renderings didn't have the purlins either. Not only would have been quicker, would have also saved some $
Freedom and safety have a price.
The NYFD too is involved in the process.
We are not in lovely Staten Island but in a highly sensitive area,targeted twice by nasty bearded fanatics.
What's the deal if the dove has more plums?Winters in NY are rough and she'll get more heat!

They are so sexy
That for my safety
I trust the NYPD


BTW:WTC site looks like a dream:8 acres of sleek and striking design.
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Old June 29th, 2014, 06:17 PM   #4264
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Originally Posted by robbie42 View Post
One thing I haven't seen mentioned: part of the complexity is because the NYPD is now in the architecture business. They made Calatrava double the number of ribs. The original renderings didn't have the purlins either. Not only would have been quicker, would have also saved some $
The very first design with the glass wings was beautiful, but the glass wings and the distanced ribs made it vulnerable to explosions. The reviewed design with the mechanical moving wings would require FIVE purlins on each side, I don't understand why the artists didn't include them on their renderings, perhaps they rushed and produced them before the engineering review/wind tunnel testing.

This ultimate design may resemble a colossal skeletal stegosaurus, but hey, it can withstand the collapse of a tower as big as T2/T3!
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Old June 30th, 2014, 12:16 AM   #4265
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The very first design with the glass wings was beautiful, but the glass wings and the distanced ribs made it vulnerable to explosions. The reviewed design with the mechanical moving wings would require FIVE purlins on each side, I don't understand why the artists didn't include them on their renderings, perhaps they rushed and produced them before the engineering review/wind tunnel testing.

This ultimate design may resemble a colossal skeletal stegosaurus, but hey, it can withstand the collapse of a tower as big as T2/T3!

Wait, why are 2 & 3 vulnerable to collapse? And doesn't having a police booth on every corner prevent explosions? [/sarcasm OFF]
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Old June 30th, 2014, 12:19 AM   #4266
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T2, T3 and T4 don't have hardly any influence by the NYPD in terms of structural design.
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Old June 30th, 2014, 01:22 AM   #4267
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All of your reasons are nothing but excuses for poor design and manufacturing. The expanding and contracting with temperature changes should to be an issue because both of the parts are kept in the same area so they both should be either expanding or shrinking relative to each other. If it's that big a problem the entire structure will self-destruct in several years with weather changes! I've worked in fabrication shops where the tolerances we held with so critical that we couldn't even open the door during the machining process or parts wouldn't match up. I've worked in the field installations with tolerances that are many times tighter than what's required for this structure. In reality for this structure only the 2 adjoining pieces have to meet, there is actually no critical fit between me of the pieces such as slip fits or interference fits. The design of this project, the manufacturing of sections and the assembly have many problems that could be easily avoided if true engineering processes had been applied.
Despite your experience, you are incorrect about there being no critical fitting required. And no, the structure won't self destruct even though it flexes with heat and weight.

While it is reasonable to argue that the pace has been slow, it is obviously wrong to not acknowledge the complicated nature of this project. Welding massive hunks of steel together is anything but normal in a large structure. This is a very unusual and complicated structure to build. One glance at the temporary mounting fixtures used during construction should be enough evidence of that.
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Old June 30th, 2014, 02:20 AM   #4268
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T2, T3 and T4 don't have hardly any influence by the NYPD in terms of structural design.
Which means they aren't absurdly overbuilt and consequently overpriced concrete blocks.
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Old June 30th, 2014, 09:00 AM   #4269
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Seems too overpriced to be just a Path station. Needs more utilities, like an airport rail link or something else to make it appear worth the massive ridiculous inflated cost. If London, paris, HK, etc can have a one-seat-ride from a premier train station to their premier airport, NYC should have it too. It's hard to take NYC's claim of being the greatest city in the world without soething that nearly every other modern city has done years ago.
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Old June 30th, 2014, 09:04 AM   #4270
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It is more than "just a path station". It will also be a major hub for multiple underground levels of retail and will also help connect all of the complex together as one unity. Also note that the retail portion of the complex will not only be underneath this 'Oculus', it will be spread out throughout most of the complex.
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Old June 30th, 2014, 09:15 AM   #4271
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It is more than "just a path station". It will also be a major hub for multiple underground levels of retail and will also help connect all of the complex together as one unity. Also note that the retail portion of the complex will not only be underneath this 'Oculus', it will be spread out throughout most of the complex.
So, it's a mall and a Path station, uh, ok. For 4 billion dollars I would have liked to see more than a commuter rail terminus and a mall.
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Old June 30th, 2014, 09:19 AM   #4272
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Well you can blame the complexity and the NYPD for a large portion of that price tag.
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Old June 30th, 2014, 02:17 PM   #4273
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So, is that it? Are they done with this project? I mean I've seen maybe, what, 4 or 5 yellow jackets at one time on the site in the last two months. Ever since they opened the museum things I have slowed to a virtual snails pace. They must be broke again.
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Old June 30th, 2014, 04:09 PM   #4274
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Do you not see the pictures of the workers installing the fins?
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Old June 30th, 2014, 04:21 PM   #4275
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#9 SE went up.

(Click for larger image.)
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Old June 30th, 2014, 04:24 PM   #4276
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And it's down again! Okay, it isn't yet, but I'm certain it will be in 2 hours from now
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Old June 30th, 2014, 05:35 PM   #4277
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its back up
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Old June 30th, 2014, 08:13 PM   #4278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by City-of-Platinum View Post
Seems too overpriced to be just a Path station. Needs more utilities, like an airport rail link or something else to make it appear worth the massive ridiculous inflated cost. If London, paris, HK, etc can have a one-seat-ride from a premier train station to their premier airport, NYC should have it too. It's hard to take NYC's claim of being the greatest city in the world without soething that nearly every other modern city has done years ago.
The Oculus is just the tip of the iceberg, or should I say octopus, but I agree, the project is overpriced.
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Old June 30th, 2014, 09:04 PM   #4279
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So, it's a mall and a Path station, uh, ok. For 4 billion dollars I would have liked to see more than a commuter rail terminus and a mall.
A lot of the critical infrastructure costs for the entire WTC complex were folded into the Transit Hall's budget ... So costs that otherwise should have been in the Tower 1, 2, 3, 4, Vehicle Security Center, Memorial and Museum budgets were loaded into the 4 billion.
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Old July 1st, 2014, 12:16 AM   #4280
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Well you can blame the complexity and the NYPD for a large portion of that price tag.
For once I'll defend the NYPD on this issue. They didn't come up with the extravagant design with a soaring open-space and huge wings. What they did was request changes to make sure that the design was safe in the event of the worst possible thing happening. If the original design of the structure had been much more simplistic this building would not be as complex nor expensive.
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