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Old February 25th, 2016, 06:08 PM   #6901
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VERY VERY impressive!...
This might be the Grand Central of the 21'st century!
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Old February 25th, 2016, 07:10 PM   #6902
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WTC Progress on Facebook..
Wow shiny! Looks like a hockey rink!
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Old February 25th, 2016, 07:31 PM   #6903
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Quote:
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The public probably believes the cost overrun is a result of extravagant design or construction mistakes. They probably don't realize that politics out of the port authority's control played a larger role. Opening the memorial early costed hundreds of millions of dollars extra. Also, it is hard to fault everyone for not completely predicting the complexity of construction at ground zero, with live subway lines needing to remain active while suspended in mid air in the middle of a construction site.
The public doesn't believe the cost overrun is ridiculous, they KNOW it is. Just like every other project they undertake the PA greatly underestimates the cost of a project so that it gets approved and then when construction is underway the costs keep climbing. It's more a matter of the PA not having or not wanting to have accurate estimates of a project cost before they start it.

The memorial actually opened later than originally planned, it was certainly not open early. It may have cost more than originally planned but that was again because of a low estimate and cost overruns, not because they hurry to get it open earlier than planned.

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I do think it cost more than is justified. Although I'm not sure how costs could have been cut much. The above ground structure could have been simplified. And the memorial could have been delayed. But if the structure was simplified, what would that mean? Would we have spent over 3 billion on something that brings the city down rather than attracts visitors? We'd have an expensive hub which wouldn't enrich the day of of everyone passing through it.
How in the World you or anyone else thinks the costs are justified is beyond comprehension. There are so many ways that costs could have been reduced without affecting the user experience. It's just the fact that I mentioned above that the PA and NYC in general have no comprehension of cost control nor do they really care. They think they have an endless supply of tax payers money.
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Old February 25th, 2016, 11:26 PM   #6904
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It sure is a shame that the cost ballooned beyond comprehension, but at this point it is what it is, but at least now there seems to be more oversight of the PA and it seems Like it finally got the hint that it should stick to improving transportation in the metro area rather than being involved in real estate.
But I sure am glad that we're getting this masterpiece, I sure will be among the first to step in this beauty when it opens.

http://ny.curbed.com/2016/2/25/11111...ion-hub-photos














Many more pics worth checking out at Curbed
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Old February 26th, 2016, 12:04 AM   #6905
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All those pics from Curbed need are an army of Stormtoopers! Great piece in the NYT by David Dunlap about the past and present of the project. http://nyti.ms/1TA9qhM
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Old February 26th, 2016, 12:18 AM   #6906
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that NYtimes analogy was right on point, I can just imagine chancellor Palpatine speaking to his troops from the elevated balcony, one of the coolest features of this structure.
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Old February 26th, 2016, 03:17 AM   #6907
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Next Week I will do a complete station photography overview... Even though the Port Authority might still try to infringe on my right to photograph their PATH system... I will still try to cover the entire station... Platforms , Trains , Exits , The Great Hall , Entrances , side areas....everything....
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Old February 26th, 2016, 09:19 AM   #6908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msradell View Post
The public doesn't believe the cost overrun is ridiculous, they KNOW it is. Just like every other project they undertake the PA greatly underestimates the cost of a project so that it gets approved and then when construction is underway the costs keep climbing. It's more a matter of the PA not having or not wanting to have accurate estimates of a project cost before they start it.

The memorial actually opened later than originally planned, it was certainly not open early. It may have cost more than originally planned but that was again because of a low estimate and cost overruns, not because they hurry to get it open earlier than planned.


How in the World you or anyone else thinks the costs are justified is beyond comprehension. There are so many ways that costs could have been reduced without affecting the user experience. It's just the fact that I mentioned above that the PA and NYC in general have no comprehension of cost control nor do they really care. They think they have an endless supply of tax payers money.
In understandable anger about the price tag, you've missed every point that was being made. That was that the public doesn't understand the cause of the overrun, not that it was justified. Also, that simply cutting the quality to bring cost down is not preferable to the overrun. The memorial opened late but the desire to have it open as early as possible cost hundreds of millions more by making construction happen in the wrong order.
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Old February 26th, 2016, 08:11 PM   #6909
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Was it worth the money? Probably not, but good lord is it looking awesome. Can't wait for the opening.
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Old February 26th, 2016, 08:35 PM   #6910
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...

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Old February 26th, 2016, 09:01 PM   #6911
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Quote:
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The memorial opened late but the desire to have it open as early as possible cost hundreds of millions more by making construction happen in the wrong order.
You obviously don't have any comprehension of what happens through this entire process. The entire process was delayed for over 5 years at the beginning because of politics and infighting between the various organizations involved in the process. Everything should of been opened by the 10th anniversary when in fact nothing was.
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Old February 27th, 2016, 03:55 AM   #6912
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Quote:
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Also, that simply cutting the quality to bring cost down is not preferable to the overrun.
Actually, it would have been far preferable. I can understand the concept of having a few amazing stations, but obviously when you have hundreds of stations you can't have them all be beautiful, most of them have to be simple and utilitarian and this station isn't one of the top in terms of volume so it makes no sense to sink so much money into it when it's not going to see any more riders than an above average subway station.
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Old February 27th, 2016, 04:26 AM   #6913
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Why is it in a respectful way that the transportation hub that so much smaller can cost the same as the the 1 World Trade Center even know it too more material and men hours more that the hub
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Old February 27th, 2016, 10:58 PM   #6914
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Why is it in a respectful way that the transportation hub that so much smaller can cost the same as the the 1 World Trade Center even know it too more material and men hours more that the hub
Corruption
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Old February 28th, 2016, 01:59 AM   #6915
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Awsome building one of the most impressive of its kind in the world. Another landmark for NYC.
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Old February 28th, 2016, 03:30 AM   #6916
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Quote:
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Why is it in a respectful way that the transportation hub that so much smaller can cost the same as the the 1 World Trade Center even know it too more material and men hours more that the hub
1 World Trade Center has a simpler ('cookie cutter') design, proven and easier building method, conventional work site
Transportation hub is a highly challenging unique custom design, being built in and around a busy functioning transit station

It's comparing painting a Van Gogh versus making an Andy Warhol Marilyn Monroe silkscreen painting.
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Old February 28th, 2016, 01:02 PM   #6917
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The $4 billion World Trade Center transportation hub is about to open... #wtc #transportation #hub #manhattan #overbudget #brandnew by Sleepy Mark, on Flickr
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Old February 28th, 2016, 01:39 PM   #6918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msradell View Post
You obviously don't have any comprehension of what happens through this entire process. The entire process was delayed for over 5 years at the beginning because of politics and infighting between the various organizations involved in the process. Everything should of been opened by the 10th anniversary when in fact nothing was.
Of course it was delayed by politics. It still cost hundreds of millions more to build the hub because it was built in the wrong order. It would have been cheaper to build from the bottom up. But the memorial plaza was built first.

That's not the only cause of the cost overrun but it is significant.
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Old February 28th, 2016, 01:44 PM   #6919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominance View Post
Why is it in a respectful way that the transportation hub that so much smaller can cost the same as the the 1 World Trade Center even know it too more material and men hours more that the hub
Many reasons! The answers people cite are often emotionally and politically motivated.

Inefficient port authority operations.
Being forced to build underneath an already built memorial.
Excavating under and then uspending live rail lines in tunnels in midair while building around them.
Extravagant design.
It is actually a quite large complex, not just what is seen in these pictures.
Flood damage from hurricane Sandy.
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Old February 28th, 2016, 04:14 PM   #6920
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Quote:
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Many reasons! The answers people cite are often emotionally and politically motivated.

Inefficient port authority operations.
Being forced to build underneath an already built memorial.
Excavating under and then uspending live rail lines in tunnels in midair while building around them.
Extravagant design.
It is actually a quite large complex, not just what is seen in these pictures.
Flood damage from hurricane Sandy.
Add NYPD requiring significant design changes for perceived security/safety shortcomings
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Last edited by DavidNYC; February 28th, 2016 at 11:47 PM.
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