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Old August 27th, 2016, 10:20 AM   #7421
Christi69
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Even with changes in its design and heavy value engineering (very visible above the entrance...), I think this transportation hub (cum mall) looks great and adds a new dimension to the World Trade complex.
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Old August 27th, 2016, 08:12 PM   #7422
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I visited the new mall, and I was so dismayed at the quality of the finishing work. I know corners were cut (a.k.a value engineering), but for something that already cost taxpayers more than a few billion dollars, couldn't we at least end up with something really beautiful and something to be proud of? I can't be proud of work that looks like it was someone first day at drywall. I can't be proud of marble floors, less than a few months old, already cracking and staining. I can't be proud of the fact that a structure that is supposed to look like a bird taking off in flight, reminds me of a dead whale ribcage because of the "strengthening" requirements.

I don't blame the construction workers. I don't blame the architect. I blame the politicians, who managed to deliver a $4 billion mall boondoggle that looks high end, until you look at all of the crap that I listed above.

Hopefully someday someone will come along and finish the finish.
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Old August 27th, 2016, 08:59 PM   #7423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrapesalot View Post
Hopefully someday someone will come along and finish the finish.
It will almost certainly happen, just not in the near future.
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Old August 27th, 2016, 10:35 PM   #7424
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Honestly. It looks perfectly fine. The whole thing is quite beautiful.
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Old August 28th, 2016, 09:23 AM   #7425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrapesalot View Post
I visited the new mall, and I was so dismayed at the quality of the finishing work. I know corners were cut (a.k.a value engineering), but for something that already cost taxpayers more than a few billion dollars, couldn't we at least end up with something really beautiful and something to be proud of? I can't be proud of work that looks like it was someone first day at drywall. I can't be proud of marble floors, less than a few months old, already cracking and staining. I can't be proud of the fact that a structure that is supposed to look like a bird taking off in flight, reminds me of a dead whale ribcage because of the "strengthening" requirements.



I don't blame the construction workers. I don't blame the architect. I blame the politicians, who managed to deliver a $4 billion mall boondoggle that looks high end, until you look at all of the crap that I listed above.



Hopefully someday someone will come along and finish the finish.

Oh boo, you listed two things, the marble one is not even remotely legit, the finish should be flawless for this price tag, but is it a structure New York can't be proud of? That's bs, it's a great experience to be in the middle of the oculus, it's a fantastic, world class architectural achievement (and yes with the flaws that come with Calatrava) that many generations will appreciate and be proud of. (And by that I mean as proud as you can be about a train station/mall)
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Old August 28th, 2016, 03:00 PM   #7426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrapesalot View Post
I can't be proud of marble floors, less than a few months old, already cracking and staining. I can't be proud of the fact that a structure that is supposed to look like a bird taking off in flight, reminds me of a dead whale ribcage because of the "strengthening" requirements.
The cracking might be a quality issue indeed (or is marble a bad choice to start with for highly stressed floors?). The staining however comes with the design. All white floors are a maintenance and cleaning nightmare no matter how you turn it. That is something everyone could have seen coming.

Also marble is not very acid resistant. I could imagine this could be a problem in the long run as well. Spilled juices etc could tarnish the polished look in the long run.
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Old August 28th, 2016, 04:23 PM   #7427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrapesalot View Post
I visited the new mall, and I was so dismayed at the quality of the finishing work. I know corners were cut (a.k.a value engineering), but for something that already cost taxpayers more than a few billion dollars, couldn't we at least end up with something really beautiful and something to be proud of? I can't be proud of work that looks like it was someone first day at drywall. I can't be proud of marble floors, less than a few months old, already cracking and staining. I can't be proud of the fact that a structure that is supposed to look like a bird taking off in flight, reminds me of a dead whale ribcage because of the "strengthening" requirements.

I don't blame the construction workers. I don't blame the architect. I blame the politicians, who managed to deliver a $4 billion mall boondoggle that looks high end, until you look at all of the crap that I listed above.

Hopefully someday someone will come along and finish the finish.
You know, sometimes it's just value engineering...

I don't think much expense is spared once you're looking at such a large price tag. It's always been clear that, with Calatrava, one has to consider the gap between his vision and reality. He often comes up with stuff that is quite unworkable.

The bird thing, I also never understood, since it's always been referred to as "The Oculus", which has always evoked the image of an eye...but that's just me.

More so than the supposed issues with dry wall and finishing (what, exactly, is intumescent paint on steel supposed to look like?), my major complaint is that the [marble] platforms are uncomfortably slippery for my taste. That's an accident waiting to happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
The cracking might be a quality issue indeed (or is marble a bad choice to start with for highly stressed floors?). The staining however comes with the design. All white floors are a maintenance and cleaning nightmare no matter how you turn it. That is something everyone could have seen coming.

Also marble is not very acid resistant. I could imagine this could be a problem in the long run as well. Spilled juices etc could tarnish the polished look in the long run.
There were also leaks, resulting from construction, at the site, a few months back. There's definitely water stains/damage at the north end near the PATH - by the left side of the stairs, in the pic below.

In any case, the retail tenants are going to be paying for maintenance and cleaning - in the retail portions, at least - since that's Westfield's responsibility. The question remains regarding the actual transit elements...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
Taken Yesterday - 8/25/16


World Trade Center PATHasaurus Hub
by Corey Best, on Flickr
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Old August 28th, 2016, 06:12 PM   #7428
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Old August 28th, 2016, 06:13 PM   #7429
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'The Oculus' at the WTC Transportation Hub


360by360

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Old August 28th, 2016, 09:12 PM   #7430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixboi08 View Post

The bird thing, I also never understood, since it's always been referred to as "The Oculus", which has always evoked the image of an eye...but that's just me.
There is this interview with the architect about this project where you can see a sketch of the building and right next to it there is a dove, I guess most of the time the wings are there to remind us how he get the inspiration for the project.
My opinion is that the final realization doesn't look as pristine as I expected. Most of the time I perceive Calatrava's projects like this very futuristic buildings where everything seems to strive for a very elegant impression. The Ličge-Guillemins railway station is one of the projects that really seems to achieve that sort of impression.

Edit: Not sure why, but I can't embed the video properly, however you can see it on ArchDaily.
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Old August 28th, 2016, 11:14 PM   #7431
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The World trade center has come back to life Amazing !!!
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Old August 28th, 2016, 11:36 PM   #7432
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Ofcourse, I haven't seen the building in person. I guess the impression is different when you're there. Just to imagine how much steel was used in the structure seems like quite an engineering feat, and Calatrava really succeeded in developing a style that's different from everything we've ever seen.

Edit: As a conclusion, I must say I'm glad that New York has a building designed by Calatrava, when you see the futuristic surrounding and all of the blue glass you realize this building fits in, it's different (with all of the white painted steel and wings) but still fits in, and it's good to now that a building designed by Calatrava fits New York nicely.

Last edited by Architecture lover; August 29th, 2016 at 01:45 AM.
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Old August 29th, 2016, 03:17 AM   #7433
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City resident, but finally down there today to get a closer look. It's pathetic. I am truly embarrassed that this is representative of American ingenuity. And so no one thinks I am overreacting, I'm just echoing what most everyone else has said too.

The contractor or company that is responsible for the finish/painting work should be exposed and humiliated. The finish is so extremely poor. You'd be hard pressed to find a worse job in a third world country using primitive tools. There are solidified paint drips all over the structure. That's in addition to massively uneven surface and the blatantly visible half ass paint job. They need to start over entirely on the surface. They need to sand down to the steel with each piece one at a time and refinish it. It would take a decade this way.

The contractor who did this, should put his house and life up for sale to pay for it.

What an embarrassment we have become with American craftsmanship. If I were in charge of this part of the project, people would be fired. No question. This resembles nothing like masterpieces of Grand Central station and so many other structures across New York. The detail and finish place this dead last on any list. Bravo. Only at the cost of $10B too. Not bad.
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Old August 29th, 2016, 03:36 AM   #7434
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Its also hot on the upper levels...
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Old August 29th, 2016, 05:31 AM   #7435
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I went to see it last week. It was quite amazing to be honest. Very modern and futuristic feel. The finish and paint were simply fine on most of the structure and frankly not really so observable when you look at the overall scheme. The few people on here saying otherwise are over exaggerating IMO. Many tourists were there in awe of the structure.
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Old August 29th, 2016, 04:25 PM   #7436
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I was walking past on my way to the office this morning, and was surprised to see that at the base of each window, there are plywood boxes painted white. I would have expected that to be metal. The plywood wont last long, especially if rain runs down the windows to the base.
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Old August 29th, 2016, 07:50 PM   #7437
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Anywhere you see plywood painted white, it is to be replaced with marble units. Below the windows will be white marble benches. You can see four samples along the North side. The area below the benches will also be a marble finish instead of the temporary plywood. Like it is at the two end entrances. Inside there are several plywood areas to be replaced with marble baseboards, such as on the "diving boards." My biggest regret is the lumpy inconsistence of the stucco on the "diving board" structures. I'm referring not to a rough texture which is fine to have, but the lack of an even application of the stucco. It should be even as would be a plaster wall and perhaps still have a texture. I sure the architect intended for an even application. Hopefully they will re-apply these surfaces to complete the beauty of this most impressive structure. It is too late now to fix the many very visible weld lines and the lack of graceful flow of lines from one steel section and the next on the exterior but that should be a point to consider when improving fabrication methods for future constructions of this type.
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Old August 29th, 2016, 08:36 PM   #7438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Optisonics View Post
Anywhere you see plywood painted white, it is to be replaced with marble units. Below the windows will be white marble benches. You can see four samples along the North side. The area below the benches will also be a marble finish instead of the temporary plywood. Like it is at the two end entrances. Inside there are several plywood areas to be replaced with marble baseboards, such as on the "diving boards." My biggest regret is the lumpy inconsistence of the stucco on the "diving board" structures. I'm referring not to a rough texture which is fine to have, but the lack of an even application of the stucco. It should be even as would be a plaster wall and perhaps still have a texture. I sure the architect intended for an even application. Hopefully they will re-apply these surfaces to complete the beauty of this most impressive structure. It is too late now to fix the many very visible weld lines and the lack of graceful flow of lines from one steel section and the next on the exterior but that should be a point to consider when improving fabrication methods for future constructions of this type.
Marble will look much better. And I agree about the interior finishes underneath the balconies, particularly the west end. It looks like an amateur drywall project in grandma's basement.
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Old August 31st, 2016, 02:05 AM   #7439
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It is too late now to fix the many very visible weld lines and the lack of graceful flow of lines from one steel section and the next on the exterior but that should be a point to consider when improving fabrication methods for future constructions of this type.
Are you kidding me? $4 BILLION dollars and we're just supposed to accept a sub-standard product? Would you pay for a custom car that had weld joints clearly visible through the exterior paint job?! Heck no, and neither should we. I want a refund.
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Old August 31st, 2016, 10:09 AM   #7440
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marble tiles

Yes, this is a tiny percentage of the thousands of tiles, but what's going to happen in the months/years to come?







This one is by the PATH steps:





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