Oil Spill: Sobering News For the Gulf Coast

[Hia-leah JDM]

The anger and concern is completely understandable but historically these leaks have always take MONTHS to stop. When you take into consideration the location and complexity of the BP leak, you shouldn't expect this to be over in a few days, weeks, or in less than a month or two.
What should be a serious concern and point of anger is how we got to this point. The government and BP failed. Point blank.

[Durhamite]

Originally Posted by snookums

Exactly!! Obama is basically turning out to be 'Bush#3'. This huge oil spill is his Katrina. I am totally disgusted about all of this and the approval of offshore drilling --even if it is halted for now. I am disgusted about the on-going war in the Middle East, but that is another issue. I thought we were going for CLEAN and SAFE energy??? But instead we just have more bullshit like usual. I'm really gonna be pissed if this oil comes up the Gulf stream and up the Atlantic and does the same thing to our coastline I feel sorry for the Gulf coast area.
Fuck BP

Army Corps of Engineers.. Bush 3?? Three words you WILL NOT HEAR FROM THE REPUBS during the next election; Drill-Baby-Drill!. The federal government does not contain the expertise in-house to address this issue or many other technical challenges. Most people are ignorant of what the federal government does. Most people only want their FEDERAL GOV when they want their FEDERAL GOV. Sort of like a kid on the playground that refuses to listen to their parents but comes haulin ass over crying and screaming when they fall off the swing set.

The federal gov (and definitely not the army corp of engineers) does not have anyone with in-house knowledge to address the problem. Generally most of the subject matter experts work for government contractors or other private entities (ie., BP). You can make 2x as much money working in private industry (+ stock options and other perks), regardless of the FOX news twist - fed gov employees, especially skilled technical people, don't make nearly as much money compared to their peers in private industry.

Obama has threaten BP (hell of a lot more through direct communications than whats being presented in the media) but his hands are tied; the federal government job is to manage programs and oversee policies/regulations to MAKE SURE THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN...PERIOD! But, DRILL-BABY-DRILL Lobbyist and a cadre of oil cronies continue to reduce regulation requirements to squeak out every dime regardless of environmental impact.

So, you can't have your cake and eat-it-to! Don't continue to kick the government to curb, blast them as lazy trifling idiots then expect them to do a Clark Kent to Superman transformation (ie, Bobby Jendil) when you need them.

Comparing this to Bush Jr. Katrina's debacle is apples and oranges. Bush possessed the authority to maneuver resources to address the problem. BP has every industry expert in the world working on the problem. We have enough government personnel working with BP, why waste additional government money on what is a private sector issue??? The feds are emphatically engaged in this matter!

As far as CLEAN and SAFE energy; no previous PRESIDENT, point blank has committed or dedicated the resources to address the nation's energy crisis as President Obama. Obama's only been president 2 years but his position on migrating to new energy sources is very genuine and earnest.

One particular reason to invest into alternative energy and energy efficiency is job creation - this is happening. Even with the amount funding being invested in new energy sources, it'll be years before the nation's infrastructure and other moving parts (information technology) be in place to fully handle the transition. This is an unprecedented effort!

I work very closely with folks on the front line dealing with the energy crisis and BP mess.

[greenparrot]

Originally Posted by Durhamite

Army Corps of Engineers.. Bush 3?? Three words you WILL NOT HEAR FROM THE REPUBS during the next election; Drill-Baby-Drill!. The federal government does not contain the expertise in-house to address this issue or many other technical challenges. Most people are ignorant of what the federal government does. Most people only want their FEDERAL GOV when they want their FEDERAL GOV. Sort of like a kid on the playground that refuses to listen to their parents but comes haulin ass over crying and screaming when they fall off the swing set.

The federal gov (and definitely not the army corp of engineers) does not have anyone with in-house knowledge to address the problem. Generally most of the subject matter experts work for government contractors or other private entities (ie., BP). You can make 2x as much money working in private industry (+ stock options and other perks), regardless of the FOX news twist - fed gov employees, especially skilled technical people, don't make nearly as much money compared to their peers in private industry.

Obama has threaten BP (hell of a lot more through direct communications than whats being presented in the media) but his hands are tied; the federal government job is to manage programs and oversee policies/regulations to MAKE SURE THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN...PERIOD! But, DRILL-BABY-DRILL Lobbyist and a cadre of oil cronies continue to reduce regulation requirements to squeak out every dime regardless of environmental impact.

So, you can't have your cake and eat-it-to! Don't continue to kick the government to curb, blast them as lazy trifling idiots then expect them to do a Clark Kent to Superman transformation (ie, Bobby Jendil) when you need them.

Comparing this to Bush Jr. Katrina's debacle is apples and oranges. Bush possessed the authority to maneuver resources to address the problem. BP has every industry expert in the world working on the problem. We have enough government personnel working with BP, why waste additional government money on what is a private sector issue??? The feds are emphatically engaged in this matter!

As far as CLEAN and SAFE energy; no previous PRESIDENT, point blank has committed or dedicated the resources to address the nation's energy crisis as President Obama. Obama's only been president 2 years but his position on migrating to new energy sources is very genuine and earnest.

One particular reason to invest into alternative energy and energy efficiency is job creation - this is happening. Even with the amount funding being invested in new energy sources, it'll be years before the nation's infrastructure and other moving parts (information technology) be in place to fully handle the transition. This is an unprecedented effort!

I work very closely with folks on the front line dealing with the energy crisis and BP mess.

you're right...comparing Katrina & the Oil Spill...Obama & Bush...is apples and oranges. This makes Obama look even worse. 99% of the Katrina issues the Gulf Coast dealt with happened before Bush/fed gov. had any power to do anything. They surely started slow but got up to speed and pumped a lot of money & resources in the region. Obama had some lead time to react before significant environmental damage was done.

Fixing the oil spilling is surely BPs problem to fix. That's why Obama has steered clear because he & his crew don't have a clue how to fix it and don't want to be associated with not fixing it. But...when it looked like the top kill would work, he injected himself in the fix. He told us he & the fed gov were approving everything. he said he thought about this from the time he woke up till the time he went to sleep.

Their is a definite role for the federal gov. Most people agree on that...but not to the extent Obama wants to inject the fed gov. in our lives. Shouldn't we get something in return for the confiscatory taxes we pay? Yes....the federal gov. is the backstop on the damage caused by the spill at the very least. They have been slow and un-engaged in getting on board with many of the suggestions local leaders & others have proposed.

Drill baby drill? Absolutely...we can't do without it for a long time. Of course...in accordance with safety regulations most of us support. No dosagreement here.

Alternative energy jobs? Big joke. For every job created multiple others will be lost.

Want our cake and eat it too? I just want to eat the cake I paid for.

[CityTrip]

Just read in USA Today that there is/was a much better shutoff valve that BP could have used when they initially made this well that would have been able to close the well but it cost a half a million dollars, so they decided not to use it because it would have cut into there profits.
I am just blown away at the magnitude of stupidity by the top brass at BP because this disaster for the most part could have been prevented. I am just baffled as to why they could think that a worst case scenario such as this would never happen.
If there isn't a regulation put in place for all future wells to have a way to shut down in case of worst case scenario then there is something seriously wrong, on many levels.

[lamsalfl]

Forget national media outlets. Why not just get your oil news straight from the people who know the area the best? The local news.

www.nola.com (N.O. newspaper, The Times Picayune)
www.wwltv.com (N.O. CBS affiliate, one of the leading local news stations in the nation)

[Sean in New Orleans]

Originally Posted by lamsalfl

Forget national media outlets. Why not just get your oil news straight from the people who know the area the best? The local news.

www.nola.com (N.O. newspaper, The Times Picayune)
www.wwltv.com (N.O. CBS affiliate, one of the leading local news stations in the nation)

Exactly...anyone from out of town on here...go to www.wwltv.com , www.nola.com , www.fox8live.com , www.wdsu.com, www.neworleanscitybusiness.com , www.abc26.com , or www.bestofneworleans.com and you'll get the real stuff coming out of New Orleans.

[desertpunk]

The markets are finally waking up to the fact that BP will not survive this in its present form. It has lost almost half its value and could be a takeover target. ExxonMobil, anyone? In addition, there is discussion about the federal government putting BP's North American operations into receivership and running the company here. Maybe Obama will take the time from his busy fundraising schedule to make a pretty speech about that?

[QuantumX]

Originally Posted by CityTrip

Just read in USA Today that there is/was a much better shutoff valve that BP could have used when they initially made this well that would have been able to close the well but it cost a half a million dollars, so they decided not to use it because it would have cut into there profits.
I am just blown away at the magnitude of stupidity by the top brass at BP because this disaster for the most part could have been prevented. I am just baffled as to why they could think that a worst case scenario such as this would never happen.
If there isn't a regulation put in place for all future wells to have a way to shut down in case of worst case scenario then there is something seriously wrong, on many levels.

People's World
It's your world


Cheney blasted for blocking oil well safety valve
Cheney blasted for blocking oil well safety valve Print Email to a Friend by: Tim Wheeler
May 4 2010
tags: environment, health and safety, energy, oil

Women who have spent their lives fighting oil company pollution and profiteering angrily denounced former Vice President Dick Cheney and the company he once headed, Halliburton, for their role in the oil spill now spreading across the Gulf of Mexico.

They reacted to reports that Cheney's secretive White House Energy Task Force during George W. Bush's tenure blocked a requirement that offshore oil wells be equipped with a sound-activated shutoff valve that would close in the event of an explosion.

Environmental attorney Mike Papantonio told Ed Shultz on MSNBC's "Ed Show" that it was Cheney's Energy Task Force that rejected the proposal on grounds "that the switches, which cost $500,000 were too much of a burden on the industry."

Halliburton is directly implicated in the disaster since the Houston-based oilfield services corporation was under contract to pump cement around the wellhead to seal any leaks. Workers had just completed the cementing process when the well exploded. Ironically it was Earth Day, April 20.

Diane Wilson, a former Gulf fisherwoman and a veteran environmental activist, spoke to the People's World from her home in Seadrift, Texas, a fishing village on the Gulf Coast. "It was only $500,000 to pay for those acoustical-triggered valves and here are these billionaires saying it is too expensive," she said. "I'm familiar with Dick Cheney. I once crashed a fundraiser with Cheney when he came down to Texas to endorse Tom DeLay." She was referring to the corrupt Texas oil Republican forced to resign from Congress. "Inside, they were chanting 'Halliburton, rah-rah-rah."

The oil gusher currently pumping 25,000 barrels of oil into the Gulf each day "is a huge catastrophe," she continued. "But the people who live in the villages along the Gulf from Florida to Texas see this on a daily basis. Over half the nation's oil refineries and chemical plants are located on the Gulf coast. These plants release 5 million gallons per day into the Gulf."

Luci Beach, executive director of the Gwich'in Steering Committee, on Alaska's North Slope, who remembers well the disastrous 1989 Exxon Valdez oil spill off Alaska's coast, was in Washington, D.C., when BP's rig exploded. "I decided I had to go down to the Gulf to see for myself, to talk to the people," she said, "I went to Venice, La., and Biloxi and Gulfport, Miss. The Exxon Valdez was a tanker with a finite amount of oil. This is a well gushing at the rate of 210,000 gallons every day. It took Exxon 20 years to compensate the people and even then they got only a pittance. Dig down into the sand on Prince William Sound and the oil is still there. It is just heartbreaking."

She said the Gwich'in people are fighting to preserve the last stretch of Alaska's North Slope. "Drill here! Drill now! Drill baby drill," she exclaimed. "The oil companies try to convince the American people using scare tactics and intimidation. But they are putting America's food-basket at risk. The Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is the last intact Arctic and sub-Arctic ecosystem left in North America. It contains more biological diversity than anywhere else in the circumpolar north. Birds from all 50 states and six continents nest there. It's the birthing ground of the porcupine caribou herd, the sacred place where life begins."

I asked her about the role of Cheney's Energy Task Force in killing the acoustical valve. "It's criminal," she retorted. "They could have prevented this but they were too greedy and shortsighted."

She added, "They should be made to go down there and clean up the mess they have made. Corporations are not people. They are about the 'bottom line.' They care only about profits. We have given these corporations way too much leeway. I am going to a meeting this afternoon at the Interior Department on the Arctic Refuge. There should be no more gambling with America's most precious areas. This is a human rights issue."

Carol Hoover of Cordova, Alaska, the staging-ground for the Exxon Valdez cleanup, has been struggling to restore the once-pristine Prince William Sound since the disaster occurred on "Good Friday, March 1989," she told the People's World. "That spill and its aftermath has sowed havoc in the lives of the people ever since," she said. "I know the same thing is going to happen to the fishermen and all the people on the Gulf Coast."

Photo: AP/Susan Walsh

http://www.peoplesworld.org/cheney-b...-safety-valve/

[Ian604]

Originally Posted by greenparrot

you're right...comparing Katrina & the Oil Spill...Obama & Bush...is apples and oranges. This makes Obama look even worse. 99% of the Katrina issues the Gulf Coast dealt with happened before Bush/fed gov. had any power to do anything. They surely started slow but got up to speed and pumped a lot of money & resources in the region. Obama had some lead time to react before significant environmental damage was done.

Fixing the oil spilling is surely BPs problem to fix. That's why Obama has steered clear because he & his crew don't have a clue how to fix it and don't want to be associated with not fixing it. But...when it looked like the top kill would work, he injected himself in the fix. He told us he & the fed gov were approving everything. he said he thought about this from the time he woke up till the time he went to sleep.

Their is a definite role for the federal gov. Most people agree on that...but not to the extent Obama wants to inject the fed gov. in our lives. Shouldn't we get something in return for the confiscatory taxes we pay? Yes....the federal gov. is the backstop on the damage caused by the spill at the very least. They have been slow and un-engaged in getting on board with many of the suggestions local leaders & others have proposed.

Drill baby drill? Absolutely...we can't do without it for a long time. Of course...in accordance with safety regulations most of us support. No dosagreement here.

Alternative energy jobs? Big joke. For every job created multiple others will be lost.

Want our cake and eat it too? I just want to eat the cake I paid for.

Greenparrot,

After these three incidents in the last 5 years...

BP's Texas City Refinery explosion in 2005 which killed 17 people was found by OSHA to be the result of deliberate shortfalls in safety systems on the part of BP America.

BP America's Northern Pipeline in Alaska ruptured and spilled 8,000 barrels of oil into the ecosystem due maintenence work that was repeatedly put off.

And the current spill in the Gulf which we are now learning comes on the heels of dangerous cost-cutting throughout the construction of the platform...

would you support an amendment to revoke BP America's corporate charter, essentially dissolving the company. We put repeat criminals away for good and BP America has repeatedly violated local, state and federal violations that are designed to protect workers and the ecosystems in which these operations are conducted. These three examples are only the ones that led to massive loss of life or environmental destruction. There are literally hundreds of other violations.

It's time for this corporation to be disolved.

[Sean in New Orleans]

Well, oil hit Alabama today, namely Dauphin Island. Earlier today it was spotted 9 miles from Pensacola. People on the Emerald Coast---get ready, and I'm sorry to say this, but, this is exactly how it started in Louisiana. It was spotted offshore and bam, next thing you knew, in a matter of days, thick, chocolate-syrup oil was hitting the marsh. It just showed up. It's not like they watched it come ashore. All of the sudden it was in the waves and washing ashore. It's underneath, not on the surface, in spite of what you hear on the news. Ask any person familiar with the water here in Louisiana and they will tell you it is underneath the surface. The boom didn't do jack shit. We know the Gulf of Mexico---that doesn't work with our big waves. And it only takes one thunderstorm to rip them (the boom) apart with high winds. Go stand on the beach and clean it up as it washes ashore. That's the best I can think of for the beaches. But, remember, they are spraying chemicals on this shit. Don't think you can be an earthsaver and just show up on the beach to clean up....you'll wind up in an emergency room within hours. Seriously. Good luck over there as this comes ashore. You have my total concern, prayers, and remember, we're OK over here in Louisiana and it's been washing ashore for over 3 weeks now. The saddest part to me is when they have to close the beaches. And they will. The Health people only have to smell it and they are going to close the beaches. But, as soon as it passes, they'll reopen. We've had our oyster beds close and reopen several times in the last few weeks. The oysters are fine.

[Sean in New Orleans]

I actually can't believe this thread hasn't been stickied. Maybe when oil hits Florida they will sticky it.

[SRG]

Originally Posted by Sean in New Orleans

I actually can't believe this thread hasn't been stickied. Maybe when oil hits Florida they will sticky it.

It wasn't started by infoman..

[Eddy Gordo]

Well, oil hit Alabama today, namely Dauphin Island. Earlier today it was spotted 9 miles from Pensacola. People on the Emerald Coast---get ready, and I'm sorry to say this, but, this is exactly how it started in Louisiana. It was spotted offshore and bam, next thing you knew, in a matter of days, thick, chocolate-syrup oil was hitting the marsh. It just showed up. It's not like they watched it come ashore. All of the sudden it was in the waves and washing ashore. It's underneath, not on the surface, in spite of what you hear on the news. Ask any person familiar with the water here in Louisiana and they will tell you it is underneath the surface. The boom didn't do jack shit. We know the Gulf of Mexico---that doesn't work with our big waves. And it only takes one thunderstorm to rip them (the boom) apart with high winds. Go stand on the beach and clean it up as it washes ashore. That's the best I can think of for the beaches. But, remember, they are spraying chemicals on this shit. Don't think you can be an earthsaver and just show up on the beach to clean up....you'll wind up in an emergency room within hours. Seriously. Good luck over there as this comes ashore. You have my total concern, prayers, and remember, we're OK over here in Louisiana and it's been washing ashore for over 3 weeks now. The saddest part to me is when they have to close the beaches. And they will. The Health people only have to smell it and they are going to close the beaches. But, as soon as it passes, they'll reopen. We've had our oyster beds close and reopen several times in the last few weeks. The oysters are fine.

^yea man, saw it on the news today. pray every day that this oil doesn't get into our water supply and turn it brown. beaches will never look the same nor feel the same after this. i'm not a big seafood eater anyways, so the lack of seafood won't bother me that much. too bad for who sell and catch the food from our shores. feel their pain.

[QuantumX]

Originally Posted by Sean in New Orleans

I actually can't believe this thread hasn't been stickied. Maybe when oil hits Florida they will sticky it.

Shoot a PM to jmancuso. I don't have jurisdiction here.

[CityTrip]

So now we are finding out that the main reason this catastrophe is happening is because of PURE GREED.
I hope Dick Cheney, Halliburton, BP and all the top people connected with this will be exposed for this crime and made to pay. Hopefully some Democratic senators or others high up in the government will do this.
You could bet your ass if it were Democrats who made the decision to not use these shutoff valves the Republicans would be all over this.

[QuantumX]

Originally Posted by CityTrip

So now we are finding out that the main reason this catastrophe is happening is because of PURE GREED.
I hope Dick Cheney, Halliburton, BP and all the top people connected with this will be exposed for this crime and made to pay. Hopefully some Democratic senators or others high up in the government will do this.
You could bet your ass if it were Democrats who made the decision to not use these shutoff valves the Republicans would be all over this.

The technology to keep this from happening was available from the beginning, but looks like there were those acting in the best interest of the oil companies rather than us. Now we know what most certainly has to be done if offshore drilling is to continue, and the techology was there all the time, but corporate greed reared its ugly head again.

[greenparrot]

Originally Posted by CityTrip

Just read in USA Today that there is/was a much better shutoff valve that BP could have used when they initially made this well that would have been able to close the well but it cost a half a million dollars, so they decided not to use it because it would have cut into there profits.
I am just blown away at the magnitude of stupidity by the top brass at BP because this disaster for the most part could have been prevented. I am just baffled as to why they could think that a worst case scenario such as this would never happen.
If there isn't a regulation put in place for all future wells to have a way to shut down in case of worst case scenario then there is something seriously wrong, on many levels.

you are talking about an "acoustic cutoff switch". The concensus I have heard that there is no gurantee this would have worked considering the 2 existing cut off procedures did not work.

[greenparrot]

Originally Posted by Ian604

Greenparrot,

After these three incidents in the last 5 years...

BP's Texas City Refinery explosion in 2005 which killed 17 people was found by OSHA to be the result of deliberate shortfalls in safety systems on the part of BP America.

BP America's Northern Pipeline in Alaska ruptured and spilled 8,000 barrels of oil into the ecosystem due maintenence work that was repeatedly put off.

And the current spill in the Gulf which we are now learning comes on the heels of dangerous cost-cutting throughout the construction of the platform...

would you support an amendment to revoke BP America's corporate charter, essentially dissolving the company. We put repeat criminals away for good and BP America has repeatedly violated local, state and federal violations that are designed to protect workers and the ecosystems in which these operations are conducted. These three examples are only the ones that led to massive loss of life or environmental destruction. There are literally hundreds of other violations.

It's time for this corporation to be disolved.

the feds can't "dissolve" BP. I don't have a problem though suspending a particular refinery or rig that fails to repeatedly meet regulations. As far as the oil spill goes, I didn't relize BP built the platform or, other than the acoustic switch, had anything to do with the spill.

[greenparrot]

Originally Posted by CityTrip

So now we are finding out that the main reason this catastrophe is happening is because of PURE GREED.
I hope Dick Cheney, Halliburton, BP and all the top people connected with this will be exposed for this crime and made to pay. Hopefully some Democratic senators or others high up in the government will do this.
You could bet your ass if it were Democrats who made the decision to not use these shutoff valves the Republicans would be all over this.

STOP IT wth the Dick Cheney & Halliburton. This is starting to sound like the Daily Kos

[greenparrot]

Originally Posted by QuantumX

The technology to keep this from happening was available from the beginning, but looks like there were those acting in the best interest of the oil companies rather than us. Now we know what most certainly has to be done if offshore drilling is to continue, and the techology was there all the time, but corporate greed reared its ugly head again.

ya'll need to get up to speed. There were "shut-off valves"....2 of them. One was hit on the rig...it didn't work. The other switch which is called a "dead man" swith is supposed to engage the blow out preventer when communication between the rig & BOP is lost....simply put. It didn't work. The 3rd...which was not there....was an acoustic switch. Since the 1st 2 did not work, there is no guarantee that it would work. I don't think the problem was the $500K it cost but the unreliability & rig shut downs it frequently caused. So...it's not a Fait accompli that the phrase "The technology to keep this from happening was available from the beginning" is necessarilty true". Now....I'm all for making all rigs have this if it would help prevent an event like this, but let's not say or intimate that there were no preventions in place.