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Old March 25th, 2016, 12:32 PM   #201
marmurr1916
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Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
There are? Are we talking Ax(M)-class roads or things like the A12?
Ax(M) roads are motorways. There are only a limited number of dual-carriageways in the UK that are restricted to motorised traffic only.
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Old March 25th, 2016, 06:28 PM   #202
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No motorway symbol here in Brazil
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Old July 26th, 2016, 09:40 AM   #203
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THey have signs that say "Freeway Entrance" on all on-ramps in the USA, so you'd definetly know you're on a freeway.
That's only standard on Freeways in California.

I'm in Illinois, and in some cases those small green "Freeway/Expressway/Tollway Entrance" would sure be useful!

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Old August 22nd, 2017, 10:02 PM   #204
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Sweden


Serbia


Slovakia


Germany
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Old August 23rd, 2017, 11:03 PM   #205
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How do you like the Polish ones?


Motorway / end of motorway




Expressway / end of expressway




In practice:

- on a junction:



Płatna - toll road, the sign underneath - electronic toll collection for trucks and buses.

- end of expressway, beginning of motorway:



- a short piece of the A2 just behind the German border near Frankfurt Oder is not a motorway, the motorway begins here:

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Old August 26th, 2017, 09:17 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
Why is the end-sign needed?

No section of road can be both motorway and expressway; so if one begins, shouldn't that automatically mean that the other ends? (Well, it does at least in Finland and Sweden. Not sure about other countries.)
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Old August 26th, 2017, 03:03 PM   #207
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Well pointed out, it makes no sense

I will check what our law says about that, does it demand such signage... Because it's quite stupid.

So... the law doesn't say much about it. It just says that the "bridge" sign must be placed at the beginning of a motorway, "crossed bridge" where it ends, and same with "car" and "crossed car". So they applied it literally, as there was no exception in the regulations saying that the "crossed" sign can be neglected if there is a change from motorway to expressway or vice versa. The only what is said is that when the beginning of the motorway or expressway is in built-up area, there must be a sign indicating the end of the built-up area. Why? Maybe someone considered that a driver may think he is still in built-up area and that he cannot drive faster than 50 km/h. On a motorway.

The legal act is here: http://dziennikustaw.gov.pl/du/2003/...3220218102.pdf - the points from 5.2.7 to 5.2.10. If someone is Polish or is really interested and wants to translate it for himself.
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Old August 26th, 2017, 08:32 PM   #208
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In Greece, the motorway sign has gone through several iterations, since its initial adaptation, in 1974.
The German influence in the latest version is obvious.


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Old August 26th, 2017, 10:58 PM   #209
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So, analyzing the old legal acts, it seems that the first Polish motorway sign looked so:



It is from the executive act (rozporządzenie - regulation) from 1968.

The change to the current version must have taken place in 1970s. The signs were then defined by an "instruction" being a separate document, I cannot find on the Internet - which was issued in 1974. The regulation from that year refers to the "instruction". And it also changes the color of the directional signs from yellow with black letters to green with white letters.

Probably the "instruction" changed also the font used on the road signs. From what I read in English Wikipedia, the current font was created in 1975. Maybe the "instruction" was then updated.

The appearances of the road signs returned to the legal acts in 1983 with the next big reform. The regulation from 1983 defines the Polish road sign looking practically as they look like now - with rather minor changes and new signs added in the meantime. They are already with the new font, as well as with the octagonal STOP sign. It seems that it also introduced signage for "roads for car-like vehicles only" - its usage was then different than now, and it was same at it's now in some European countries. It doesn't mean a special motorway-like road, but just a road on which cars, trucks, buses and motorbikes only are allowed.

This is the screenshot from the regulation:



Because it might be interesting to look at the changes in the other signs too, I attach the links to both regulations:

- from 1968: http://isap.sejm.gov.pl/Download?id=...0270183&type=2
- from 1983: http://isap.sejm.gov.pl/Download?id=...0500224&type=2

You can find the shapes of road signs at the very end.
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Old August 27th, 2017, 08:00 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
The only what is said is that when the beginning of the motorway or expressway is in built-up area, there must be a sign indicating the end of the built-up area. Why? Maybe someone considered that a driver may think he is still in built-up area and that he cannot drive faster than 50 km/h. On a motorway.
Yes, in Finland it's like this also. We don't even have any default speed limit for motorways – theoretically, it's always 50 in built-up areas and 80 elsewhere, if nothing else is signposted.

(In practice, though, the speed limit is signposted on the beginning of every motorway, as well as every entry ramp – even when it is 80.)
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Old August 27th, 2017, 11:37 AM   #211
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in Croatia we actually had/have Italian influence of motorway signs. in 90es (and in Yugoslavia) the motorway sign was always made in giant dimensions, i'd say 5x2 metres. Italy has it too altough I have ntoiced that Italian motorway signs became smaller.

now we officially use German square size.

one more "Italian" thing: this obsolete sign is still present at every motorway entrance.
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Old August 27th, 2017, 01:58 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Yes, in Finland it's like this also. We don't even have any default speed limit for motorways – theoretically, it's always 50 in built-up areas and 80 elsewhere, if nothing else is signposted.
In Poland the only increase of the default speed limit by signposting which is allowed is, I believe, increasing the default 50/60 (50 normally, 60 late at night) in the built-up area to 60 (also during the day) or 70.

For anything more, the road must be excluded from the built-up area. Then, the maximum speed for passenger cars is 90 (100 on double-carriageways).

The regulations say when the road should be signposted as built-up area, but this is often ignored by the road managers, especially on the minor roads, and it's not rare to meet a built-up area in the middle of a forest or when there are only fields around. The police like to catch the drivers for speeding in such places.

Or even weirder signage, where you enter the built-up area, the houses end but there is no "end of built-up area" sign. When the next village begins, there is again a "beginning of built-up area" sign although the previous one didn't end yet.

There is also at least one and a half road fulfilling at least the expressway (or even motorway) standards which are not signposted as motorway.

One is the Drogowa Trasa Średnicowa (DTŚ) in the Upper Silesian urban area. From what I know, it fulfills the expressway standards. But the law states that the motorways and expressways must be national roads (managed by the state). While this road was built by the voivodeship (province) and therefore it's not a national road, but a voivodeship road. So it cannot be signposted as an expressway, and the official maximum speed is 100 km/h instead of 120 km/h.

The other one is the northern carriageway of the 18 national road between the German border and the junction with the 297 voivodeship road near Bolesławiec (the one from Wrocław towards the border). This is the road connecting Wrocław with Berlin. While this carriageway is new (it was built in 2006), the southern one (from Berlin to Wrocław) was built in 1937 in 1938 as a Reichsautobahn and not renovated from that time. So its condition is quite bad.

While it would make perfect sense to signpost the northern carriageway as a motorway and the southern one simply not, it seems that there is no such possibility. The whole road can either be a motorway or not. But not a single carriageway. So the official maximum speed on the northern carriageway is 100 km/h instead of 140 km/h. On the southern carriageway, more strict speed limits are signposted, like 80 or even 70 km/h. Germans knew how to built good and durable roads, but after so many years even a Reichsautobahn needs renovation.
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Old August 29th, 2017, 12:39 AM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Why is the end-sign needed?

No section of road can be both motorway and expressway; so if one begins, shouldn't that automatically mean that the other ends? (Well, it does at least in Finland and Sweden. Not sure about other countries.)
It's not necessary but I think it's good just as a reminder that Warsaw ring is an expressway, not a motorway.

If there was only a motorway-start sign, one would think that the previous section was also a motorway. How? Here's an example:
https://goo.gl/maps/SFHHsfUj9iF2

Motorway-start sign in the middle of motorway... silly? Not really, because there is where toll motorway ends and toll-free motorway starts
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Old August 29th, 2017, 01:45 AM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
There is also at least one and a half road fulfilling at least the expressway (or even motorway) standards which are not signposted as motorway.

One is the Drogowa Trasa Średnicowa (DTŚ) in the Upper Silesian urban area. From what I know, it fulfills the expressway standards. But the law states that the motorways and expressways must be national roads (managed by the state). While this road was built by the voivodeship (province) and therefore it's not a national road, but a voivodeship road. So it cannot be signposted as an expressway, and the official maximum speed is 100 km/h instead of 120 km/h.

The other one is the northern carriageway of the 18 national road between the German border and the junction with the 297 voivodeship road near Bolesławiec (the one from Wrocław towards the border). This is the road connecting Wrocław with Berlin. While this carriageway is new (it was built in 2006), the southern one (from Berlin to Wrocław) was built in 1937 in 1938 as a Reichsautobahn and not renovated from that time. So its condition is quite bad.
There is something similar in Quebec, Canada
The highway law says for motorways (autoroutes), limit is 100 km/h.
And for normal roads, outside built-up areas, 90 km/h.
But that the transport ministry can post a lower limit if necessary.

So, 6-lane full standard motorway Route 116 south of Montreal is posted 90 km/h, while random 2-lane road with STOP signs Autoroute 955 is posted 100 km/h

FWIW I've seen similar "built-up area" in Belgium... for example on Ring Antwerpen on all the exit ramps you'll find the "entering built-up area" sign...
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Old August 29th, 2017, 10:52 AM   #215
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The 90 km/h seems reasonable due to high traffic volumes, frequently merging ramps and noise regulations in urban areas.
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Old August 29th, 2017, 01:30 PM   #216
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So in Quebec autoroutes may be also single-carriaggeway roads? It's different than the definition of autoroute in France. Maybe in Quebec it just means "road reserved for motor vehicles", instead of "divided and grade-separated road, with at least two lanes per direction, reserved to motor vehicles"?.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old August 29th, 2017, 07:56 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros86 View Post
In Greece, the motorway sign has gone through several iterations, since its initial adaptation, in 1974.
The German influence in the latest version is obvious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
So, analyzing the old legal acts, it seems that the first Polish motorway sign looked so:



It is from the executive act (rozporządzenie - regulation) from 1968.

The change to the current version must have taken place in 1970s. The signs were then defined by an "instruction" being a separate document, I cannot find on the Internet - which was issued in 1974. The regulation from that year refers to the "instruction". And it also changes the color of the directional signs from yellow with black letters to green with white letters.

This is the screenshot from the regulation:


I don't remember if were just posted also the evolution of Italian signs of motorways and expressways... If not, maybe Tomorrow (or in the next days) I can do it
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Old August 30th, 2017, 07:49 PM   #218
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Wrong.

Last edited by pccvspw999; August 30th, 2017 at 07:55 PM.
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Old September 1st, 2017, 02:31 AM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
So in Quebec autoroutes may be also single-carriaggeway roads? It's different than the definition of autoroute in France. Maybe in Quebec it just means "road reserved for motor vehicles", instead of "divided and grade-separated road, with at least two lanes per direction, reserved to motor vehicles"?.
Generally yes, but they may also be single-carriageway motorways (grade-separated, access controlled) like the Autoroute 50, sections of A-55. Most of these roads are planned / built to be expanded to divided 4 lane in the future.

But there are some rare exceptions, A-955 being most prominent where no real motorway nature is evident (however ! The road is limited-access... there's nothing near there ) and the somewhat debatable city street sections of A-19 on Montreal Island (and former A-25 along Henri-Bourassa Blvd).

I searched a little bit and the official Code de la securite routiere shows this:
Quote:
297. Le ministre des Transports peut, au moyen d’une signalisation appropriée, identifier comme autoroute un chemin public.


One small interesting point - during the beginning stages of the autoroute planning and construction in the 1950's, they referred to them as "autostrades" from the Italian word. Only shortly before the first autoroute opened in 1959 did they adopt the then-recently coined word from France.
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Old September 1st, 2017, 05:42 AM   #220
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Not to mention the purported Autoroute 20 between Dorval and Autoroute 30....
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