Canadian Economy

[Taller, Better]

again......

Originally Posted by Taller, Better

would you mind to post a link to the original source of the charts? Thanks!

thanks!

[Moncaltor]

Sorry I can't post the direct link to the .pdf file because it is a paid subscription. I took the table and the stats from this report:

Metropolitan Outlook 1: Economic Insights into 13 Canadian Metropolitan Economies: Winter 2012, The Conference Board of Canada.

[Taller, Better]

Oh, sorry... I was referring to the stats posted early by isaidso!

[Moncaltor]

Ok .

[oceanmdx]

Very interesting article on the Canadian economy and housing:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/4599...on-is-probable

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Taller, Better

Oh, sorry... I was referring to the stats posted early by isaidso!

Oh, I pulled the city data from the table above it and the table was posted on SSP. I don't seem to be able to find the thread to find the link. The data does seem to be consistent with all the other Gross Municipal Product data in the public realm.

Originally Posted by reidjr

Why do you think Ottawa would be poorer?

I think Ottawa is poorer than Edmonton and Calgary because all the data I've come across says it is. The likelihood that all they are all wrong is next to nil.

[reidjr]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Oh, I pulled the city data from the table above it and the table was posted on SSP. I don't seem to be able to find the thread to find the link. The data does seem to be consistent with all the other Gross Municipal Product data in the public realm.




I think Ottawa is poorer than Edmonton and Calgary because all the data I've come across says it is. The likelihood that all they are all wrong is next to nil.

I doubt its wrong but Ottawa is nto a city thats not doing well its a city that yes has the gov which has lots of gov jobs but does have other sectors Otatwa also had one of its communitys in the top 5 in 2011 in terms of wealth.

[Taller, Better]

One of the drawbacks of being a "government town" is that there is no incentive to bother taking initiative to work hard or use imaginative planning. The Government is there to pay all bills, so the population gets very used to just having everything provided for them. Much of the Arts scene in Ottawa is unnaturally sophisticated for a city that size, as they are heavily subsidized by you-know-who. Other cities don't have this advantage, and have to get up off their duff and work harder to get results.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by reidjr

I doubt its wrong but Ottawa is nto a city thats not doing well its a city that yes has the gov which has lots of gov jobs but does have other sectors Otatwa also had one of its communitys in the top 5 in 2011 in terms of wealth.

I never said anywhere that Ottawa wasn't doing well, I said it was poorer than both Edmonton and Calgary. It clearly is.

Calgary $55 595
Edmonton $49 410
Ottawa-Gatineau $43 811

[isaidso]

Collaboration & Competition Help Business Clusters Foster Innovation & Growth

It’s crucial for cities to nurture their industry “clusters” – concentrations of businesses that collaborate, compete and feed off each other – according to a new report this week by the Toronto Board of Trade.

Why are clusters important?

Economies [need] higher levels of productivity, and higher levels of innovation. Both come from understanding and responding to market signals better and faster, with more insights. The companies are tuned to market opportunities, ways to get an advantage and signs of potential innovations. If clustered together, they have clear and better access to those market signals.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle2385039/


How five Canadian cities stack up against seven major U.S. cities in 10 key industry clusters.
Report released Monday by the Toronto Board of Trade (TBOT)

[Taller, Better]

I've never quite been able to figure out the rhyme or reason of the results that the Toronto Board of Trade comes up with every year, with their "A, B, C" ratings. To be honest I think a lot
of it is simply trying to stir the pot and perhaps thereby encourage the city leaders to try harder if they can be convinced we are not doing well.

[duff+eglin]

As an Ontarion, and especially as a Torontonian, I am not worried about this but I thought I'd post it anyway.

Ontario losing grip on its powerhouse status

By MARIO POLÈSE, The Gazette April 10, 2012

Seen from Quebec, there's some schadenfreude in Ontario's current economic travails, as mighty Ontario is finally knocked off its pedestal.

The figures are stark: Ontario's unemployment rate is now above the Canadian average. Toronto's unemployment rate now matches Montreal's, a dramatic reversal of past trends.

Something has snapped.


Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/busin...#ixzz1rkKP85UL


Some historical unemployment data: http://www.toronto.ca/invest-in-toro...l_overview.xls

[Taller, Better]

I think the opening line of the article sums up the intent of the author:

"Seen from Quebec, there's some schadenfreude in Ontario's current economic travails, as mighty Ontario is finally knocked off its pedestal."

Wanting to see your neighbour knocked down is known as the Tall Poppy Syndrome, which the Gazette is an old hand at. If any poppy gets too uppity and grows too tall, cut it off so that
the other poppies don't feel badly.

[oceanmdx]

Also, misery loves company.... Montreal's relative economic importance has been in decline for so long that I can understand that any stumble Toronto has, will make some people in Montreal feel a bit better about their city. You won't see an author from Alberta write such an article.

[Taller, Better]

I have always found the Gazette to be a profoundly depressing newspaper; the mood strikes me as distinctly downbeat and a bit embittered. Rarely do they print anything about Ontario or Toronto that is not negative, and this trend only grew stronger since it was bought out by the National Post's organization. This national tendency to beggar-thy-neighbour exists in many countries, I suppose... but seems especially strong in Canada. Perhaps that stems from the relative insularity and isolation of our nation on the world stage. Mutual suspicion and jealousy are not a strong foundation for inter-provincial dealings.

[isaidso]

Canada suffers from regional isolation due to under population beyond central Canada and economic dominance by one region. Regional bickering occurs in every country I've ever travelled to and intensifies the more 1 region dominates over the rest. The only thing that will make it dissipate is economic equality and better population dispersal nationally. The weaker a region gets the more prevalent articles like that get. That's just how things work.

I'm not suggesting that Ontario needs to get weaker, but that other provinces/regions need to get much bigger if we're ever to have a strong unified country. The economic boom in Alberta/Saskatchewan/Manitoba is good for national cohesion. The more economic/political clout the Prairies have, the less resentment of Ontario there is. 2 elephants is better than 1 elephant and a mouse. The mouse tends to get squashed.

Having immigrants consider places like the Maritimes, the North, or Saskatchewan are good for the country as well. These things create a more balanced country, much like exists in the United States.

[Taller, Better]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I'm not suggesting that Ontario needs to get weaker

I am happy to hear this. That type of "shadenfreude" is very dangerous. Supposing we live next door to a neighbour who has worked hard and obtained a bigger house than we have. Naturally we will feel a bit disappointed that our house is smaller, but do we:

a) work harder so that we, too can afford a bigger house, or
b) assume that the neighbour does not deserve a bigger house, and
hope and pray that it burns down and he has no insurance, just to teach him a lesson.

Case b is, of course, bad Karma, and in my experience the type of attitudes I have experienced all too often growing up and living my entire life in Canada. The danger in hoping our neighbour's house burns is that sparks may jump over to our house and burn it too. In other words, equalization transfers into my bank account may unexpectedly shrink, causing me fiscal alarm and further depressing me. A strong country is, as isaidso has pointed out, good for all.

[duff+eglin]

Does anyone know if there are regional breakdowns available?



Canadians continued to heap on debt in first quarter, despite official warnings

By: Sunny Freeman, The Canadian Press
Posted: 5:07 AM


TORONTO - Canadians are continuing to heap on non-mortgage debt, despite warnings about the perils of cheap borrowing from top officials, according to a consumer credit study released Thursday.

Equifax Canada's quarterly consumer credit trends report found that consumer indebtedness, excluding mortgage debt, grew 3.4 per cent year-over-year in the first-quarter...


Read more: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/can...147127495.html

[Haligonian]

Originally Posted by Taller, Better

Supposing we live next door to a neighbour who has worked hard and obtained a bigger house than we have. Naturally we will feel a bit disappointed that our house is smaller, but do we ...

This sort of slanted analogy is part of the reason for the friction between different parts of Canada.

The fundamental difference between Alberta and Manitoba isn't really that Alberta has better workers, it's that Alberta has more valuable natural resources. Ontario similarly has traditionally been a very privileged province with many federally protected or promoted industries (e.g. Auto Pact, finance). Ontario has the federal capital within its borders too. The Ontario industries are (or were, depending on the industry) effectively propped up by people in places like Saskatchewan who are not allowed to buy from the US even if prices there are better. This system is probably why Ontario is like Ontario and is not like Michigan or Upstate New York.

I agree with isaidso that Canada has done a poor job of developing all of its regions, and that it will probably help to have more balanced development in the future.

[oceanmdx]

Originally Posted by Haligonian

This sort of slanted analogy is part of the reason for the friction between different parts of Canada.

The fundamental difference between Alberta and Manitoba isn't really that Alberta has better workers, it's that Alberta has more valuable natural resources. Ontario similarly has traditionally been a very privileged province with many federally protected or promoted industries (e.g. Auto Pact, finance). Ontario has the federal capital within its borders too. The Ontario industries are (or were, depending on the industry) effectively propped up by people in places like Saskatchewan who are not allowed to buy from the US even if prices there are better. This system is probably why Ontario is like Ontario and is not like Michigan or Upstate New York.

I agree with isaidso that Canada has done a poor job of developing all of its regions, and that it will probably help to have more balanced development in the future.

You have been able to buy cars from the US for a very long time... what do you think the Auto Pact was all about? It was essentially free trade in autos between the US and Canada... it dates back to 1965!

Ontario and Alberta became economically successful not just by some matter of luck (even though some good fortune was involved)... they worked for it... Alberta has had the highest labour participation rate in Canada for decades. Alberta is big on energy - oil and natural gas - nat. gas prices have been terribly low for years now, and are still dropping... not a good thing for Alberta, yet they continue to succeed. Oil prices are good now, but during much of the last 3 decades, prices were quite low... yet Alberta managed to succeed... Having resources, and having an economy dependent on revenues from them is a very bad thing when prices are low. People in other parts of the country need to understand that fact. Having an economy big on auto manufacturing is not good when the industry is doing badly.... it's only a good thing to be so dependent on auto man. when the industry is doing well... Yet... Ontario continues to succeed... look at all the construction activity in and around Toronto.

I agree with TB... You talk to anyone who became very successful, and they all will admit that they had some good luck in life... but they all had to work very hard to achieve that success.... even though some think they were just lucky... I think they are just jealous.