Irish Economy Thread

[nordisk celt83]

I think I've mentioned this before, but why don't the government utilise the national pensions reserve fund to stem concerns about defualting and help reduce borrowing??
There must be something in the region of €5-15billion in reserve that isn't being touched. I know it doesn't resolve the problem in the long-term, but surely dipping into it should be taken into consideration, instead of continuing to borrow at 6%...

[Lockheed_F-22]

Originally Posted by nordisk celt83

I think I've mentioned this before, but why don't the government utilise the national pensions reserve fund to stem concerns about defualting and help reduce borrowing??
There must be something in the region of €5-15billion in reserve that isn't being touched. I know it doesn't resolve the problem in the long-term, but surely dipping into it should be taken into consideration, instead of continuing to borrow at 6%...

Maybe they do need to have some money just in case of a 'rainy day', that's why they don't spend it, and speaking of saving, I found this yesterday:

Budget measures 'may top €3 billion'
http://www.rte.ie/business/2010/0913/budget.html

Monday, 13 September 2010 15:33

Finance Minister Brian Lenihan has suggested that December's Budget may cut more than €3 billion from the economy.

Speaking as he arrived for Fianna Fáil's meeting in Galway, Mr Lenihan said the €3 billion figure he had previously mentioned was a minimum, and the Government had to strike a balance by cutting spending in such a way that did not damage the economy.

He said there was scope for the Government to raise the €3 billion figure if it wished but no decision had yet been made.

Earlier,, the EU's economics affairs commissioner, Olli Rehn, urged Ireland to act ruthlessly with a 'rigorous approach' to tightening public finances, amid continuing concerns over the banking sector.

'The Irish government has convincing plans to complete the financial repair in Ireland, which, as we well know, unfortunately is going to be quite costly,' Mr Rehn said.

Ireland is currently reflecting on steps it needs to take towards fiscal consolidation, he said, stressing that it is 'very important that Ireland maintains its rigorous approach as regards public finances, despite these formidable challenges'.

Let's hope this will work well for them, and won't affect us

[Lockheed_F-22]

Irish borrowing costs move upwards again
http://www.rte.ie/business/2010/0916/ntma.html

Thursday, 16 September 2010 10:47

Ireland's cost of borrowing moved higher again this morning on international bond markets, having fallen back after last week's Government decision to split Anglo Irish Bank.

The interest rate demanded by investors to lend money to Ireland rose to 6.04% for Irish Government 10-year bonds in mid-morning trade.

The yield had hit a high of 6.1% last week.

Earlier this week, the National Treasury Management Agency announced plans to raise funds in its next auction of government bonds next Tuesday.

The NTMA, which borrows money on behalf of the State, plans to auction eight-year bonds and four-year bonds. It will announce how much it intends to borrow tomorrow.

Meanwhile, France and Spain are due to issue around €15 billion in fresh debt later today.

[nordisk celt83]

God help the rest of the E.U and the rest of the World is all I say...
Ireland still has the second highest GDP in the E.U, and the 5th highesst standard of living in the world as a whole.
Unfortunately, these statistical facts really don't correlate with the reality of the depression, both economic and in terms of morale, that Ireland is in at the moment.

Ireland 'second richest in EU'


While Ireland’s unemployment rate was the sixth highest in the European Union last year, its population remains the second richest of the 27 member states, according to a new report.

The Measuring Ireland’s Progress 2009 report, published by the Central Statistics Office today, says the productivity of Irish workers is about one third higher than the EU average, measured by gross domestic product per person employed.

“As Irish employees work longer hours, the productivity per hour worked is relatively lower, but still about 4 per cent above the EU average,” it said.

Ireland’s employment rate fell below the EU average, and its unemployment rate was the sixth highest rate in the EU last year.

The report notes that GDP fell sharply for the second year in a row last year.

The value of GDP fell by 11.3 per cent in 2009. The public balance deficit, at 14.3 per cent of GDP, was the highest of any EU member state.

Government debt increased to nearly two-thirds of GDP, having been only a quarter two years before, according to the report.

Despite this, Ireland still had the second highest GDP per capita in the EU 27 at 31 per cent above the EU average.

While inflation fell in 2009 – the only other EU states with price falls were Portugal and Spain – Irish prices “remain high by EU standards”.

The report also reveals Ireland’s population increased at the fastest rate in the EU between 2000 and 2009

It rose by 17.7 per cent to 4.46 million in the period 2000 to 2009, the highest rate of increase in the EU.

The rate of natural increase was 10.5 per 1,000 in 2008 compared with an EU 27 average of only 1.2.

Life expectancy at birth in Ireland is 76.8 years for men and 81.6 years for women, figures described as “reasonably close to the EU average”.

The State also had the highest proportion of young people in the EU and the lowest proportion of old people.

Ireland has the lowest divorce rate and the highest fertility rate in the EU.

An average of €3,299 per person was spent on non-capital public expenditure on healthcare in Ireland in 2008, an increase of nearly 62 per cent on the 1999 level.

But total expenditure on health is lower than the EU 27 average.

On housing, the report says the number of homes built peaked at almost 90,000 in 2006 “before collapsing to about 26,400 in 2009, the level that prevailed before the mid-1990s”.

The average value of a new housing loan in Ireland rose from €92,000 in 1999 to €270,000 in 2008

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...reaking25.html

[Viking74]

I think Gross National Product (GNP) gives a more accurate measure of wealth, and GNP in Ireland is somewhere near the EU average on this one. Anyway, who can possibly feel wealthy with so much debt to pay off as a nation? Too many years of greed and excess have finally caught up with us all. The older generations in this country really screwed the rest of us in my opinion, investors and others buying up properties to supplement their pensions and bank balances, pushing up prices ever skyward. One or even two poxy houses were not enough for them.

And it was first time buyers who were really screwed, paying way over the odds for mediocre houses in shit locations - and many now have 40 year mortgages.

What we need is a fresh start with plenty of young blood to make decisions at all walks of life and go into politics etc. The existing shower have made such a balls of things, who could possibly do any worse?

[niterider]

Originally Posted by Viking74

I think Gross National Product (GNP) gives a more accurate measure of wealth, and GNP in Ireland is somewhere near the EU average on this one. Anyway, who can possibly feel wealthy with so much debt to pay off as a nation?

I agree. The large multinational presence in the Irish economy distorts the picture. People who say things like 'oh we're the X richest country in the world' are clueless. Heard this endlessly during the boom years. Lots of that wealth was imaginary and very little of it was 'in the country' so to speak. If the country is so rich why do people pay to see the doctor, through the nose for prescriptions, schools lacking and don't get me started on the (non motorway) roads. Sorry to sound so negative but to me a real wealthy country would be Norway, Sweden, the States etc.

[Viking74]

Originally Posted by niterider

I agree. The large multinational presence in the Irish economy distorts the picture. People who say things like 'oh we're the X richest country in the world' are clueless. Heard this endlessly during the boom years. Lots of that wealth was imaginary and very little of it was 'in the country' so to speak. If the country is so rich why do people pay to see the doctor, through the nose for prescriptions, schools lacking and don't get me started on the (non motorway) roads. Sorry to sound so negative but to me a real wealthy country would be Norway, Sweden, the States etc.

Agreed Niterider. Great minds think alike

[belfastuniguy]

I agree also.

GDP is a highly subjective measure of wealth and social advantage. GNP is better at determining wider socio-economic conditions.

[nordisk celt83]

Originally Posted by niterider

to me a real wealthy country would be Norway, Sweden

Whoop, Whoop The land of my birth and the land of my ancestors!!!

Although, my parents would argue the difference is taxation, and not the wealth of the respective countries...


EDIT: I love taxes by the way!!!

[niterider]

Originally Posted by Viking74

Agreed Niterider. Great minds think alike

[Lockheed_F-22]

And I'm just wondering out of curiosity, could anybody tell me where to see the full list of the countries with the Living standard? (where message no.104 was taken from)

[nordisk celt83]

The best internationally recognised measurement is the the United Nations Development Programme, which is as the name suggests is sanctioned by the United Nations.
The most recently conducted update was in October 2009, so it's liable to have changed since then....
In an Irish context though it must be noted there are significant variances within the country between northern/border and western areas, which have a significantly lower standard of living than southern and eastern areas.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdi
Norway's no.1


There's other older ones that are less relaible...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-of-Life_Index

[belfastuniguy]

Every single quality of life measurement in some way, shape or form is skewed nor gives a full accurate picture.

It's best to take several indices and and use them to give a more rounded impression of general standard of living. That also needs to be coupled with looking at data available at a national and international level, such as crime, freedoms and so on and so forth.

[odlum833]

Well, despite the recession Ireland remains a very rich country by EU standards. The latest purchasing power index has Dublin very high aswell ahead of London and Paris.

Of course one has to bare in mind that the standard of living is excellent in Ireland if you have a job. Like everywhere else if you don't have a job then you have a low standard of living.

[hovis]

Yep, very high standard of living with it's foundations built on sand.....

[odlum833]

Built on rock actually. The economy is functioning well. There is a banking problem which is a completely different thing. The banking problem can best be compared to a hoover sucking up resources. But the underlying economic base is sound and no longer unbalanced.

[belfastuniguy]

The economy is functioning well.

Sorry what.............??

[Thefancydanhimself]

Oh christ here we go.....

[niterider]

Originally Posted by odlum833

Of course one has to bare in mind that the standard of living is excellent in Ireland if you have a job.

Elaborate on this? - going to keep an open mind here but if I'm employed in Ireland what make my standard of living excellent, particularly in comparison to other developed countries?

Food costs more, car tax costs substantially more, ditto for insurance, booze and general entertainment, clothes and consumer goods.
If I was ill I'd have to take a hard dent in the wallet to see a doc & pay for medicine, not to mention health insurance.

If i had a child I'd have little choice to send him to a school which isn't linked to a catholic church....which leads on to the religious intrusion the church has even in modern times.

[hovis]

I'm no finance expert, but I could see that wages in the south were ridiculously high and based on money not actually in Ireland.

The money's gone, and the influx of workers after a rib or two of the celtic tiger have outfluxed!!

I'm sorry, but to me the south's economy is back to square one.