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Old February 18th, 2012, 08:51 PM   #201
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I thought I'd watched an example (as opposed to a prototype) filmed some months ago :-

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Old February 18th, 2012, 09:45 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
How exactly does a railroad keep business out? Any mode of transportation is going to bring business in to such a remote area.
How? It's easy to buy yourself a vehicle whereas buying a train isn't ... Manitoba's floodplain wilderness risks being swamped by people were its highway network expanded a lot.



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Old February 18th, 2012, 09:46 PM   #203
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Old February 18th, 2012, 09:49 PM   #204
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Old February 18th, 2012, 09:51 PM   #205
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Anyhow, I thought I'd watched east Asian examples, not Iberian ones
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Old February 18th, 2012, 10:18 PM   #206
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Holy crap that's awsome. The fact that it probably is so safe that passengers can be inside and this is a fairly simple process, which doesn't even require the train to stop, certainly speaks for this technology potential! Never thought of that.
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Old February 18th, 2012, 10:46 PM   #207
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The technology is ok, but still expensive. I have read that a couple of variable gauge bogies (the SUW2000 for 1435-1520 mm networks) alone costs like a wagon with fixed gauge bogies. Regauging Spanish and Portugal remains the best option.
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Old February 19th, 2012, 01:20 PM   #208
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In Bulgaria we have a break-of-gauge facility in Varna-Feribotna (Varna Ferryboat Station) which serves two lines across the Black Sea between Varna and Odessa (Ukraine) and Varna - Sochi (Russia). Last year alone the Varna-Sochi line transported more than 50 000 tonnes of goods in both directions and is by far the best economic connection between the two countries.

The facility was also used (and will be) for the delivery of the 81.741 Metrovagonmash trains used in the Sofia Metro, which receive their 1435 mm bogies in this faicilty.
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Old February 20th, 2012, 08:28 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alseimik View Post
Holy crap that's awsome. The fact that it probably is so safe that passengers can be inside and this is a fairly simple process, which doesn't even require the train to stop, certainly speaks for this technology potential! Never thought of that.
The first guauge change installations like that existed for many years already
at the french-spanish border (Irun and Port-Bou). Now there are much more
scattered all over Spain, where normal and borad gauge meet. However, you
must realize that during this process, the whole wheight of the rail vehicle
rests on friction shoes, not on the wheels anymore. So :

- most videos shown above present the transition in a quite accelerated
way. It's much slower than that in reality. Friction moves would never allow
such a speed...

- Friction is OK with super-light vehicles like those shown on the pictures.
But I doubt very much the feasability with freight vehicles, fully loaded,
not tightly coupled together. What would be the added maintenance
cost of this ?

But indeed, yes, all over Spain, this takes place several times per day,
and the passengers always remain in the train.
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Old February 20th, 2012, 09:21 PM   #210
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well, locomotives too change their gauge so weight is definitely not a problem. As for the videos, they do really move at that speed, they're not accelerated in any sort of way, maybe from the point of view of a passanger it might seem slower.
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Old February 20th, 2012, 09:44 PM   #211
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Spanish gauge changing systems can be passed without stopping at maximun 15 km/h (9 mph), what is not a low speed at all for a maneuver like that.

They usually do it slowly because they have more time scheduled to pass to avoid any retard in case of a problem (i. e. ice on the wheels). If they pass it at 15 km/h they will reach the next station before the scheduled hour.
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Old February 20th, 2012, 09:48 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
most videos shown above present the transition in a quite accelerated
way. It's much slower than that in reality. Friction moves would never allow
such a speed...
I disagree, none of the videos is sped up ... maybe some lubricant's infused into that lubricating water ... besides, Talgos are lightweight. I suspect the different train speeds in that Sistema Brava one reflect that developer's own enhancements devised into the technology.
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Old February 20th, 2012, 10:18 PM   #213
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It's only water, but the liftting rail is made of teflon.

I think both Brava and Talgo systems have the same maximum speed.
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Old February 20th, 2012, 11:03 PM   #214
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Isn't teflon softer than metal, such that it'd be pounded out of shape by metal?
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Old February 20th, 2012, 11:50 PM   #215
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I made a search and I found some things but they're only rumors:

- "People" says that the BRAVA system permits really higher speeds than the Talgo system. I don't know, but they are scheduled the same passing time and the speed limitation at a changing facility is 15 km/h for both. Some sources says that the operation speed limit for the BRAVA system could reach 30 km/h (18 mph).

- I read somewhere than the teflon rail has to be substituted so frecuently when heavy cars are used (as locomotives).

Anyway BRAVA and Talgo systems are made for passenger trains, they exits other systems than have been specifically designed for freight trains.
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Old February 21st, 2012, 04:03 PM   #216
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You can see a map of Spain showing the gauge changers which are in use (yellow dots). They serve to join standard-gauge high speed lines with iberian-gauge lines.

For example, the time of going from Alicante to Madrid has been reduced approximately half an hour by using the high speed line between Albacete-Madrid and the normal iberian one between Alicante and Albacete.



(High speed lines without variable gauge services are not displayed). Made by/Credits to: HrAd.


A pdf file (in Spanish) with exhaustive information about gauge changers in Spain (http://www.vialibre-ffe.com/pdf/Camb...e_v%C3%ADa.pdf).

Last edited by jovibo; February 21st, 2012 at 04:12 PM. Reason: Included the map in the post / Link to the pdf file.
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Old March 26th, 2012, 07:07 PM   #217
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Hi! Maybe you can help me guys. I need drawings and tables of different clearances and loading gauges in use now all around the world. In particular for 1000, 1435 and 1676 mm gauges. If anyone have this info post it here or send me a private message...
Sorry for my english, I don't use it often. Thanks!
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Old March 26th, 2012, 10:06 PM   #218
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Need?
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Old March 26th, 2012, 10:17 PM   #219
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This gives some European loading gauges: http://www.railway-technical.com/berne.shtml (for standard gauge lines)

Railways of narrow or broad gauge in Europe usually have custom loading gauges, so it's difficult to have informations.
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Old March 28th, 2012, 02:24 AM   #220
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1'40": 2nd train featured is indeed mixed guage
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