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Old March 28th, 2012, 06:17 PM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post

1'40": 2nd train featured is indeed mixed guage
What percentage of Australia's railroad network, would you say, is still not 'standard' (1435 mm) gauge?

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Old March 28th, 2012, 10:21 PM   #222
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I've no idea ... if putting your question out on the Australia thread, I suggest trying to remind forummers there that Queesland supposedly has (quote) "extensive sugar cane tramways of 2ft (610mm) guage"
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Old March 31st, 2012, 01:11 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
The technology is ok, but still expensive. I have read that a couple of variable gauge bogies (the SUW2000 for 1435-1520 mm networks) alone costs like a wagon with fixed gauge bogies. Regauging Spanish and Portugal remains the best option.
A single-gauge bogie costs 10000 to 15000 € (I spent half a day googling for prices of Russian cargo wagon bogies in order to find a realistic figure), whereas a SUW2000 bogie costs around 30000 €. There being two bogies per wagon, the extra cost is some 30000-40000 € per wagon. According to some quick googling, a wagon seems to cost between 1 and 2 million €. If we take the highest extra cost for using SUW2000 bogies (40000 €) and compare it with the price of the cheaper end of the railway wagons (1000000 €), we come to the conclusion that using SUW2000 bogies instead of traditional bogies increases the price of a wagon by 4%. Because I used the least favourable prices, the real price increase is probably slightly lower.
(If we assume the "nicer" ends of the price ranges, we come up with a price increase of 1.5%)

I'd say increasing the costs of each wagon by 4% is very likely to make more sense than constructing large batches of dual-gauge railway.
The price range of SUW2000 gauge changing facilities are in tens of thousands of euros, that is, less than 100 000 € / less than one tenth of the price of a single wagon. Therefore, the price of a couple of such facilities here and there shouldn't be a problem either.
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Old March 31st, 2012, 01:33 PM   #224
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A freight wagon certainly doesn't cost 1 to 2 millions. It should be in the range of 50.000 to 200.000 maximum.
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Old March 31st, 2012, 02:56 PM   #225
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I've also heard variable gauge freight wagons are heavier, therefore they're not just more expensive, but you can make less money from them. I'd need to find the data though.
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Old April 1st, 2012, 10:01 AM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakkus View Post
According to some quick googling, a wagon seems to cost between 1 and 2 million €. If we take the highest extra cost for using SUW2000 bogies (40000 €) and compare it with the price of the cheaper end of the railway wagons (1000000 €), we come to the conclusion that using SUW2000 bogies instead of traditional bogies increases the price of a wagon by 4%. Because I used the least favourable prices, the real price increase is probably slightly lower.
(If we assume the "nicer" ends of the price ranges, we come up with a price increase of 1.5%)
1-2 million Euros is what you will pay for a passenger car. Freight cars are a lot cheaper.
What I've found out is that basically using SUW2000 on freight cars is viable, but it depends on the freight volume...
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Old April 5th, 2012, 06:05 PM   #227
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Don't know if it was already posted (too lazy to read every single post ), but here is a legend (or a joke) about why russians used 1520mm from the begining:

Quote:
In the early years of railways an russian czar advisor comes to the czar.
- The western nations have developed a new means of transport - Railways. Do you think we should also use this technology?
- Yes, of course. We are as good as any nation, and even better. - Replied the czar.
- But since we are better maybe we should make some modification to it, for example different gauge?
The czar thought about and replied:
- Nahuj shire
(Freely translated - "Why the fu*k wider?", literarly - "A ***** length wider")
So the advisor misunderstood czars reply and measured the ***** lengths of the czar guards and made the gauge wider for the average length of the penises.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 07:03 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post

1'40": 2nd train featured is indeed mixed guage
Were gauge changing trains ever considered in Australia? I would have thought that for the few Sydney - Melbourne trains a variable gauge train would have been more economical than building a second standard gauge track next to the existing broad gauge line...
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Old April 5th, 2012, 11:21 PM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
Were gauge changing trains ever considered in Australia? I would have thought that for the few Sydney - Melbourne trains a variable gauge train would have been more economical than building a second standard gauge track next to the existing broad gauge line...
On the long-term, it makes all sense to have unified gauge in an ISLAND.
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Old April 7th, 2012, 08:10 PM   #230
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I'm still under the impression that that video I shared represents an (Australian) instance of migrating over to standard guage ... again, how about lobbing such a query on the Australia Railways thread, which would otherwise risk becoming dormant a full five months two days from now?
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Old April 14th, 2012, 04:51 AM   #231
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Even though the world is gravitating towards the standard gauge, some developments in the metre gauge sector is worth noticing, namely at the Malaysian metre railway where they have achieve 160km/hr (ETS) and 140km/hr (Zuzhou).

Though compared with HSR, these speeds are nothing. But, for a lot of countries, including a lot of standard gauge routes even in developed countries, these speeds are all that is needed.

This is especially so for freight traffic.

The point here is:

For many smaller countries especially those that are based on metre or cape gauge, they may not feel compelled to do a massive conversion to standard guage. They can still evaluate and develop HSR for specific high value/volume passenger corridors only.

But, within metre gauge, the improvement they should do is double tracking, and using more modern trainsets that will allow them to reach 140km/hr to 160km/hr.

I can see the approach used in Japan and Taiwan is reflective of this strategy. Similarly, South East Asia comprising M'sia, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam and Myanmar which are largely metre gauge based should also adopt similar strategy.

Furthermore, metre/cape gauge will have their strength for metros and LRT. They will be better with tighter turning radius. Their lower speed (generally < 80km/hr) is also well within the comfort and safety range for metre gauge, without requiring standard gauge.
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Old April 14th, 2012, 04:00 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horlick97 View Post
Though compared with HSR, these speeds are nothing. But, for a lot of countries, including a lot of standard gauge routes even in developed countries, these speeds are all that is needed.

This is especially so for freight traffic.
I completely agree. The introduction of HSR in Western European countries has led many people to believe that anything under 250 km/h is a mule drawn carriage... while what is mostly needed is more capacity and not more speed. Not to mention the huge cost difference between building a 300 vs. a 160/200 km/h railway.
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Old April 14th, 2012, 04:26 PM   #233
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The cost difference is not nearly as huge as most people imagine. The expensive bits are the bridges, and the amount of roads, railways, rivers, canals and other obstacles that need to be bridged are pretty much the same whatever the design speed of the railway. Using slightly more ballast, slightly heavier rails, etc etc for high speed are marginal costs (though not insignificant) compared to the basics of land, construction and obstacles.
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Old April 14th, 2012, 07:33 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
The cost difference is not nearly as huge as most people imagine. The expensive bits are the bridges, and the amount of roads, railways, rivers, canals and other obstacles that need to be bridged are pretty much the same whatever the design speed of the railway. Using slightly more ballast, slightly heavier rails, etc etc for high speed are marginal costs (though not insignificant) compared to the basics of land, construction and obstacles.
Speed does matter. A lot. Lower the speed, and you lower the curve radii.

Which means that you can get around obstacles like hills, valleys, houses etc. You can avoid a lot of tunnels, cuttings and bridges, and in case of small rivers and canals make do with small bridges just above water, not long viaducts high above valley.

And at lower speeds, you can avoid bridges over roads by accepting level crossing. And omitting fences.

All of which cause large savings.
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Old August 30th, 2012, 08:47 AM   #235
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Old September 24th, 2012, 06:35 AM   #236
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Old September 24th, 2012, 06:37 AM   #237
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Old September 24th, 2012, 06:39 AM   #238
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Old September 24th, 2012, 09:24 PM   #239
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What are the advantages and disadvantages of broad gauge? On vehicles, wider is better in terms of stability. It lowers the center of gravity and allows tighter turns without tipping over. Is the same true with trains?
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Old September 25th, 2012, 09:27 AM   #240
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Quote:
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What are the advantages and disadvantages of broad gauge? On vehicles, wider is better in terms of stability. It lowers the center of gravity and allows tighter turns without tipping over. Is the same true with trains?
Yes, broader gauge usualy results in higher speeds and greater loads, but the cost of construction grows too.
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