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Old September 25th, 2012, 10:27 AM   #241
Coccodrillo
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Speed and loads are not directly related to gauge: American trains on 1435 mm are much more heavier than 1668 mm Spanish trains.

So the broad gauge networks in Eurasia might have some theoretical advantage, but not having a standard is a great problem along the gauge border. I wish 1524 mm lines were built standard gauge, back in the XIX century...

(or the other way round, 1435 mm gauge lines built as broad gauge)
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Old September 25th, 2012, 10:46 AM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Speed and loads are not directly related to gauge: American trains on 1435 mm are much more heavier than 1668 mm Spanish trains.

So the broad gauge networks in Eurasia might have some theoretical advantage, but not having a standard is a great problem along the gauge border. I wish 1524 mm lines were built standard gauge, back in the XIX century...

(or the other way round, 1435 mm gauge lines built as broad gauge)
Back in 1840-s, it was widely agreed that 1435 mm was too narrow and Great Britain stuck to it in 1846 only because there was too much of it completed to undertake regauging.

What was not agreed, though, was how wide was wide enough. Dixieland and Russia picked 1524 mm. Ireland 1600 mm. Canada, Spain and India 1676 mm.
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Old September 25th, 2012, 06:21 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Canada, Spain and India 1676 mm.
Close but not exactly the same. Iberian gauge is 1,668 mm. Spanish gauge was originally 1,672 mm, equal to 6 Castillian feet. Portuguese gauge was 1,664 mm, equal to 5 Portuguese feet. The Iberian gauge was adopted in 1955, splitting the difference between the two.

/pedant

Last edited by Frank IBC; September 25th, 2012 at 06:22 PM. Reason: Added "mm" where missing.
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Old October 1st, 2012, 07:44 AM   #244
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Old October 1st, 2012, 01:24 PM   #245
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how to create railway track and train cabin....
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Old October 1st, 2012, 03:06 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank IBC View Post
Close but not exactly the same. Iberian gauge is 1,668 mm. Spanish gauge was originally 1,672 mm, equal to 6 Castillian feet. Portuguese gauge was 1,664 mm, equal to 5 Portuguese feet. The Iberian gauge was adopted in 1955, splitting the difference between the two.

/pedant
Only on paper, in realty the railways were built by engineers from Great Britain and they didn't use spanish units of measure, instead they used the closest possible imperial units of meassure so the railways were built to 1674 mm (five feet 6 inches). Barcelona metro line 1 (originally a railway line) still has this gauge.
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Old October 1st, 2012, 03:49 PM   #247
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The Barcelona Metro Line 1 was built at 1,672 mm, though now is officially 1,668 mm.

There is no mention of Spain's or Portuguese earliest rail lines being built at 1,674 mm gauge or of British involvement in setting the gauges. The Spanish government decided on their broad gauge as a means to hinder a potential invasion from France (the Napoleonic Wars were only four decades in the past).

A Spanish pie (foot) was 278.6 mm.
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 03:44 AM   #248
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OK, a day later I feel rather silly about arguing over a 4 mm difference in gauge nomenclature.

Last edited by Frank IBC; October 3rd, 2012 at 03:45 AM. Reason: Minor wording change
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 03:21 PM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank IBC View Post
The Barcelona Metro Line 1 was built at 1,672 mm, though now is officially 1,668 mm.

There is no mention of Spain's or Portuguese earliest rail lines being built at 1,674 mm gauge or of British involvement in setting the gauges. The Spanish government decided on their broad gauge as a means to hinder a potential invasion from France (the Napoleonic Wars were only four decades in the past).

A Spanish pie (foot) was 278.6 mm.
You got it all wrong, the reason they built the gauge wider than in France was because the technical knowledge at the time was limited. On the assumtion that a wider boiler would generate more power for the trains to negotiate steeper grades, they choosed a wider gauge. The reality though is that the length of the boiler is the determing factor, something they at that moment didn't know. This is all supported by historical documents which also mention the reason why they used 1674 rather than 1672.

You can read all this in a book called El ancho de la vía en los ferrocarriles españoles by Jesús Moreno Fernández where he explains in detail the things I've mentioned above.

The French invasion hyptesis is not supported by any historical documents, in fact it's most likely a factoid. And yes, the gauge in Barcelona metro line 1 is still 1674 mm.

If you do read spanish you can also check out this document from 1844 where the government appointed commision of engineers argue about railway gauges for Spain.

http://www.grijalvo.com/Subercase/In...odernizado.htm

Last edited by gincan; October 3rd, 2012 at 04:03 PM.
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Old November 30th, 2012, 08:00 PM   #250
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Structure gauge in Argentinean railways:

1000 mm Gauge:


1435 mm Gauge:


1676 mm Gauge:
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Old September 15th, 2013, 07:57 AM   #251
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Old January 12th, 2015, 05:23 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
Australia isn't necessarily standard gauge either.

Queensland and Western Australia and Tasmania - Narrow gauge (1067mm) for the most part (with interstate services being standard gauge and duel gauge tracks).

Victoria and South Australia are broad gauge (1600mm) for the most part (again with interstate provision for standard gauge with duel gauge tracks).

New South Wales is standard gauge as are the interstate networks.

As you can see, a highly confusing system overall!
If you want an explanation of the history of the Australian gauge muddle both of these are excellent (the first is basically a shorter version of the latter)

John Ayres Mills (2010): Australia's mixed gauge railway system: a reassessment of its origins.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Austra...s.-a0228508618

John Ayres Mills (2006): The Myth of the Standard Gauge: Rail Gauge Choice in Australia, 1850-1901
http://www4.gu.edu.au:8080/adt-root/...633/index.html

One interesting aspect of the thesis is that track gauge was, in the 19th century, taken as an oversimplified and false proxy for railway construction and operation costs. Also that the problem of forthcoming break of gauge was well understood by some when the crucial decisions were being made in 1853, especially following the British Gauge Act of 1846 which prescribed 4'8&1/2" for new railways in England, Scotland and Wales AND 5'3" for railways in Ireland.
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Old January 12th, 2015, 12:55 PM   #253
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Spanish gauges

An exhaustive list, in that I was exhausted, but incomplete of gauges in the world:

2.134 mm The world's largest wide so had the British company Great Western (1836/1892).
1.676 mm Argentina (parcial), Bangladesh, India (red principal), Pakistán y TMB (línea 1: 1.674).
1.668 mm Renfe (antes 1.674 mm), Chile y Portugal (antes 1.665 mm, red principal).
1.600 mm Australia (Victoria y Meridional), Brasil e Irlanda.
1.520 mm Finlandia, Panamá, Polonia (Este) y la antigua URSS (antes 1.524).
1.445 mm Metro de Madrid.
1.435 mm AVE, FGC (línea Cataluña), TMB Metro de Barcelona (resto de líneas), Alemania, Austria, Australia (Nueva Gales del Sur y ANR), Canadá, China, Dinamarca, EE UU, Francia, Italia, Japón (Alta Velocidad), Méjico, Noruega, Polonia (principal), Reino Unido y Suecia.
1.214 mm FC de Tharsis al Puerto de Huelva.
1.067 mm FC de Río Tinto, Australia (Queensland y Occidental), Ecuador, Filipinas, Indonesia, Japón (convencional), Nueva Zelanda, Suráfrica (casi todo el África Subsahariana), Tasmania.
1.000 mm Metro de Bilbao, FGC (línea Catalans), EuskoTren, Cercedilla-Los Cotos, SF Mallorca, FEVE, Ponferrada-Villablino, FGV Valencia, África Oriental, Argentina, Brasil, Chile, India (red secundaria), Polonia (red secundaria), Portugal (red secundaria) y sudeste asiático.
914 mm FC de Port Aventura, FS Mallorca-Sóller, Canadá (Yukon) y EE UU (red secundaria).
891 mm Suecia (Roslagsbanan).
750 mm FC del Museo del Ferrocarril de Asturias (Gijón).
650 mm HUNOSA.
600 mm Tren minero de Artikutza (cerrado), FC del Museu de les Mines de Cercs (Barcelona), y FC del Museo del Ferrocarril de Asturias (Gijón).

Of the one million one hundred thousand kilometers that make up the global network, 59% has a width of 1,435 mm, 21.2% is higher and 19.8% less.

....................................

The Castilian foot equivalent to 0.278635 m according to the Spanish Centre of Metrology, then 6 feet is 1.67181 m. Historians have always talked about 1.671 mm (or 1.67 m) because we must remember that in 1844 was not measured in millimeters but in feet, so measurements are approximate.
However, when the first railroad was built peninsula (not from Spain, who was the Garcín-Bejucal (Cuba), on 11/19/1837), the Barcelona-Mataró, the English builders adecuaron width to their units as for English-five feet six inch, resulting 1.674 mm, as it spread to other lines also built by British, staying as true width, which unofficial -since remained the 6ft Castilians in Spain.
In March 1955 the "Reducing game via" report, Department of Studies and Reconstruction of Renfe, where the need to reduce slack or "play via" between the flanges of the wheels and rails to be explained is published improve the rolling conditions. According to the report, in 1926 the Office of Rail Material Unification decided calar car wheels and automotive to 1,596 mm, and then the Directorate of Material Renfe set at 1,588 mm distance between arches locomotives; it was a play on the tab for cars 13 mm and 21 mm for locomotives. The editor considers excessive these games therefore proposes to unify a 7 mm for all vehicles, resulting superior to 1 mm to recently approved by the SNCF for the renovation of roads with concrete sleepers.
After that, you come to the conclusion that adopting the 1,668 mm gauge only exist a difference of 3 mm with Portuguese width (1,665 mm) and this measure would reduce the game via a 7 mm. This width is adopted in all renewals of track since concrete sleepers (first diblock and then monobloc) apply. However, the lines that has not been renewed since 1955 the track width remains of 1,674 mm; for other reasons, that remains the width of line 1 of the Barcelona Metro (TMB).

The 17/09/1853 Portugal had already begun construction of its first line, in the East: Lisbon-Carregado, which was inaugurated on 10/28/1856 width of 1,435 mm at the behest of the British builders. But the dealership went bankrupt, was awarded the line Marqués de Salamanca (yes, the Madrid neighborhood of the same name and founder of MZA), which created the Real Companhia dos Caminhos de Ferro Portugueses and did change the width to 5 Portuguese feet (1.665 mm) to join the Badajoz-Madrid route. As in the case of Spain, from 1955 was transformed by renovations to the current Iberian gauge of 1,668 mm.
....................................
An index of my comments on the widths and their changes, mainly in Spain, but also in Portugal, UK and USA (in Spanish).
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Old September 19th, 2015, 09:15 AM   #254
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The new chinese made ETS has reached a maximum speed of 176 km/h. This breaks previous record on Malaysian metre gauge train back in 2010 with speed of 160 km/h.

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Metre-gauge intercity EMU reached 176 km/h on test run

China Radio International (CRI) news

http://gb.cri.cn/42071/2015/09/09/8171s5096176.htm



Xinhua

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20..._134603682.htm

China-made trains put into operation in Malaysia
English.news.cn 2015-09-08 23:19:20

CHANGSHA, Sept. 8 (Xinhua) -- The world's fastest meter-gauge multiple unit trains have been put into operation in Malaysia, according to its manufacturer Zhuzhou Electric Locomotive Co., Ltd on Tuesday.

The Chinese company's meter-gauge train broke the world record in 10,000 km operation tests with a high speed of 176 km per hour, said Zhou Ande, an engineer with the company. Meter gauge is the system of narrow gauge railways and tramway with a track gauge of 1,000 mm

My post in this thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by prophecus1 View Post
Again the ETS of KTMB Malaysia. This train is undergoing test run. In this video, an engineer is seen announcing the speed of the train at 158, 159 and finally 160 km/h. I think this is the speed record of metre gauge in Malaysia, although far short of Australia's Queenway's rail at 210 km/h, but that train runs on cape gauge (1067 mm).

Note that there are speed limits at around 120 km/h due to the curves especially at Selangor part. At this part in this video (Sungkai - Tapah Road) the tracks are relatively straight.



Thanks to Kalvinkhew for this amazing video!
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Old September 19th, 2015, 11:08 AM   #255
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What is the widest Gauge in the World?
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Old September 19th, 2015, 11:48 AM   #256
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The widest gauge is 9000 mm, used on the Krasnoyarsk ship transloader: http://www.e-river.ru/gallery/shipelevator/gal-01/

Excluding this and other special vehicles (like cranes), the widest gauge used on a conventional railway was 2140 mm on the GWR, but all lines have been converted to 1435 mm ebfore 1900: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Western_Railway

The widest gauge used today is 1676 mm used in the Indian subcontinent, on some lines in South America and in the Iberian peninsula (in this latter case it is slightly narrower, at 1668 mm).

List of gauges: http://www.parovoz.com/spravka/gauges-en.php
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Old September 19th, 2015, 11:34 PM   #257
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http://www.ara.net.au/UserFiles/imag...RA%20MapPC.jpg

Map showing the different gauges used in Australia
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Old September 19th, 2015, 11:49 PM   #258
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Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch Railway




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Old September 24th, 2015, 10:26 AM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twentyfivetacos View Post
http://www.ara.net.au/UserFiles/imag...RA%20MapPC.jpg

Map showing the different gauges used in Australia
Considering this comes from the ARA, I would have expected a better researched map. Just in Western Australia there are the following lines out of service:
- All lines south of Bunbury
- York to Bruce Rock
- Narrogin to Merredin (both lines)
- Merredin to Wyalkatchem
- Collie to the south, and also east of the Premier mine (which is east of town)
- Dongara to Eneabba
- Tambellup to Gnowangerup
- Katanning to Nyabing
- Mundijong to Jarradale

The following errors are also there:
- Line from Northam (through Toodyay) to Perth is dual gauge on the same (northern) alignment, not differing alignments as shown on the map
- New line from Morawa (Tilley) out to Karara not shown, built with dual gauge sleepers for future regauging
- Line from Geraldton to Morawa rebuilt with dual gauge sleepers for future regauging
- Both FMG and Roy Hill lines are missing in the north-west of the state

This is just the one state, never mind the rest of them.
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Old February 18th, 2016, 04:02 AM   #260
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this machine changes automatically the gauge repositioning the wheels
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