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Old May 17th, 2010, 08:22 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
Is there anything a 1-metre railway couldn`t lug through some bush that a 18-wheel transport can?

I ask this because Manitoba wants to pave so many roads, grumbling about the cost and all, yet nobody mentioned constructing some not-as-usually-expensive railway like a 1-metre one. Highways invite incursions (trouble) into the wilderness while a railway poses far less a strain.

Impressive, considering it can accommodate being converted to broad gauge any day it be so desired
The cost advantage of narrow gauge derives from (usually) lower axle loads and the possibility to trace tighter curves with smaller radii, which means you'd need less expensive civil engineering in mountainous terrain.
However, this precludes conversion to standard gauge. If you were to construct a narrow gauge railway with future conversion to standard gauge in mind you'd have to obtain a right of way that fits standard gauge, and plan your railway so that no curve is to tight. You'd have to make sure all your civil engineering is up to the higher train weights too. So basically you won't have any cost advantage over building standard gauge from the outset in this case.
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Old May 17th, 2010, 09:08 AM   #42
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NEW SPANISH DIESEL TRAIN FOR NARROW GAUGE

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New diesel trainsets built by CAF/Sunsundegui, to be used mainly for long-distance services

With capacity for 90 people and two cars with passage continuity, has the most advanced technology for diesel units and may reach 120 kilometers per hour, a speed that is considered high for narrow gauge units. In obtaining this advantage affects its aerodynamic design.

Of their services to benefit travelers of Feve lines on the Cantabrian coast and Castilla y León, and perhaps even a section of Cartagena.

Security is another aspect that highlights the constructed model, which incorporates in its front door for emergency evacuation. The novelty is due to the adaptation of the convoy to the conditions present in some sections of track Feve, with dimensions narrow tunnels.
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Old May 17th, 2010, 03:02 PM   #43
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Interesting newsa about the FEVE 2700. Do you have more information about this train, like width, floor height from top of rail, whether it can be extended to 4,6, 8 or 10 cars, etc.
I found something in wikipedia, but they are in Spanish.

Thank you.
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Old May 17th, 2010, 07:51 PM   #44
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Thank you, K, but my question was more along the lines of how come casting aside the narrow-gauge option should be any pioneering jurisdiction`s folly...Come outrun a polar bear on our narrow gauge!...
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Old May 18th, 2010, 09:04 PM   #45
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Paraguay wants to build a cross-country railway, connecting Presidente Franco (at the Brazilian border) to Pilar (at the Argentinian border). Since railways at either end are in metre gauge, Paraguay will probably build it at that gauge too.
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Old May 19th, 2010, 02:46 PM   #46
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That's interesting. What is the gauge of existing railway in Paraguay and Argentina?
I understand Brazil has a large metre gauge network.

Thanks.
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Old May 19th, 2010, 08:37 PM   #47
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Paraguay doesn't have any railways (apparently it has 400km or something like that between Asunción and Encarnación - perpendicular to the one they want to build today -, but the traffic is suspended).

Argentina has three gauges: metre (especially in the north, Belgrano lines), standard (west, the lines between the Paraná and Uruguay Rivers, ALL Mesopotámica lines) and broad (1.676m) in the south.

Brazil has those three gauges too, the metric being the largest one, with 23,500km. The broad gauge is a different size from Argentina, 1.600m (4,000km and is present in the State of Săo Paulo, between the cities of Săo Paulo, Belo Horizonte and Rio de Janeiro, and in the new lines being constructed) and the standard gauge is only present in a small line of 250km in the state of Amapá (completely disconnected from the rest of the network).
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Old May 19th, 2010, 11:21 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dourado View Post
Paraguay doesn't have any railways (apparently it has 400km or something like that between Asunción and Encarnación - perpendicular to the one they want to build today -, but the traffic is suspended).

Argentina has three gauges: metre (especially in the north, Belgrano lines), standard (west, the lines between the Paraná and Uruguay Rivers, ALL Mesopotámica lines) and broad (1.676m) in the south.

Brazil has those three gauges too, the metric being the largest one, with 23,500km. The broad gauge is a different size from Argentina, 1.600m (4,000km and is present in the State of Săo Paulo, between the cities of Săo Paulo, Belo Horizonte and Rio de Janeiro, and in the new lines being constructed) and the standard gauge is only present in a small line of 250km in the state of Amapá (completely disconnected from the rest of the network).
Its used for cargo. Not suspended.
Passenger service only between Asunción and Aregua (only on Sundays, as a turist service)
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Old May 20th, 2010, 02:17 PM   #49
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as I know Kenya is going to change it's whole network of 1000mm to standart gauge in next decade or so... probably Uganda will follow .
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Old May 20th, 2010, 04:19 PM   #50
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Quote:
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Its used for cargo. Not suspended.
Passenger service only between Asunción and Aregua (only on Sundays, as a turist service)
OK, but isn't it just 5 kilometres near Encarnación? Then the cargo crosses to Argentina via boat or truck.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 05:42 PM   #51
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How and who is financing the gauge conversion in Kenya and Uganda?

Will it be by private concessions?

Since the condition of the existing metre gauge lines are poor, would it be just conversion" Wouldn't it require total reconstruction, i.e. including strentening the track bed and replacing the sleepers and rails?

Roughly, how much would conversion from metre guage to standard gauge cost? (assuming simple conversion)

What would be the new design speed?

When will this happen?

Thanking in advance for input from anyone.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 09:33 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homunwai View Post
Roughly, how much would conversion from metre guage to standard gauge cost? (assuming simple conversion)
With wooden sleepers the cost to reduce the gauge is not enormous (but if you have to wide the gauge, you have to change sleepers: the ones for metre gauge are too narrow for broad gauge).

Problems arise when curve radius are too small to handle wider gauge trains, and that traffic must be interrupted during the conversion, not only to change/modifiy tracks but also at the broders between gauges.

I don't have any idea of the cost, but in Europe a kilometre of new track costs around one million of EUR/USD (without guarantee, just to make an idea).
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Old May 20th, 2010, 09:43 PM   #53
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In France we have a very unusual project: convert a standard gauge line into meter gauge!

It's the Saint Auban-Digne line (now closed). Digne is the terminal station of the longest meter gauge line in France, Nice-Digne, operated by Chemins de Fer de Provence (CP). Since the closure of the SNCF standard gauge line Digne-Saint Auban in the 90' the city of Digne is quite isolated.
The project is to convert this line to meter gauge so the CP Trains coming from Nice could go all the way to Saint Auban where passengers could change for SNCF trains to Grenoble.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 11:27 PM   #54
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This happened also in Switzerland. In both cases two branch lines connected each other in a station, but without other lines. So they are (or were) a single line, but with a break of gauge within it.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 10:51 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
Is there anything a 1-metre railway couldn`t lug through some bush that a 18-wheel transport can?

I ask this because Manitoba wants to pave so many roads, grumbling about the cost and all, yet nobody mentioned constructing some not-as-usually-expensive railway like a 1-metre one. Highways invite incursions (trouble) into the wilderness while a railway poses far less a strain.
Well, I think roads provide way better flexibility when it comes to rural connections. Trucks are unbeatable in that respect. And I don't like the idea of "isolating" places from citizens, you need to enforce laws concerning the use of different areas, but isolating swaths of land from the own citizens of the country is just wrong IMO.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 02:12 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augusto View Post
In France we have a very unusual project: convert a standard gauge line into meter gauge!

Well, there is one such project going on in Switzerland. Suhr - Aarau is being converted from normal gauge to metre gauge. Although here conversion is a big word, as basically a completely new, mostly double track metre gauge railway is being build on the alignment of a disused standard gauge railway. The purpose of this conversion is to offer the metre gauge WSB a new route in to Aarau. The current route is mostly on street, with trains sometimes even running on the "wrong side" against traffic.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 08:51 PM   #57
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The MOB and the BLS are planning to have trainsets for both meter and standard gauge:
http://www.20min.ch/news/bern/story/...-Bahn-31683433
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Old May 21st, 2010, 08:57 PM   #58
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As you can see, the top speed for freight train on Malaysian railway track (metre gauge) is 90 km/h

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Old May 21st, 2010, 09:18 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Well, I think roads provide way better flexibility when it comes to rural connections.
I was talking about wilderness ("bush"), not rural areas. The flexibility you wish would be terminal, period.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I don't like the idea of "isolating" places from citizens, you need to enforce laws concerning the use of different areas, but isolating swaths of land from the own citizens of the country is just wrong IMO.
It's no country; it's merely a federation, mate, with land claims a-brimming everywhere. The bush has been doing just fine at being isolated.....incursions will degrade the areas.....by the way, I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the topography we're discussing be flood-plain turf...

Yet another! suburbanist gushing a 'great' idea...
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Old May 22nd, 2010, 03:28 AM   #60
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HSR will invariably require dedicated tracks. On the other hand, modern metre gauge railway is able to reach service speed in the region of 120-160km/h. They are therefore able to serve the all of the freight as well as local and regional traffic.

Furthermore, they also impose less impact to the environment.

That being the case, i would like to suggest governments (especially those of smaller and developing countries which may have a host of other priorities to juggle with) to think twice before embarking on gauge conversion or HSR.

It is better to increase the speed from 60km/h to 120km/h now, than to plan for a HSR of 300 km/h which may only remain a plan for decades to come. Meanwhile, the existing metre guage railway may receive under investment, forcing users (freight and passengers) to road transport.

Malaysia is a case in point. Hopefully, with double tracking and electrification of the metre gauge now, railway will be able to 'reclaim' its popularity while the longer term debate of HSR is being debated. In any case, as HSR will likely require dedicated tracks serving limited destinations, future HSR may coexist with modern metre guage.

Any comments/
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