Ethiopia is becoming a huge refugee camp

[sky-scraper]

Originally Posted by abesha

Actually, 100% of the Somalians I meet outside Ethiopia are always friendly. Those that spew insults on the internet seem to be a special breed.
.

Same here, in fact some of my closest friends are Somalians.

[The Nomadic Warrior]

They are welcomed in the Ogaden. It's there land as well. Especially those from South Somalia.

[Yoniii]

Originally Posted by abesha

Actually, 100% of the Somalians I meet outside Ethiopia are always friendly. Those that spew insults on the internet seem to be a special breed.
Here in Lusaka, we even wave to each other when we see each other on the roads for instance, even though we've never met.

I feel sorry for refugees, it's a horrible situation.

Well I agree, I've never meet any hostility from any Somali or Eritrean here in Stockholm and there are a lot of people from those countries here. I think it's easier to insult some one on the Internet than in real life, it's probably often the same people that smiles at you when you see them outside.

[Yoniii]

Originally Posted by The Nomadic Warrior

They are welcomed in the Ogaden. It's there land as well. Especially those from South Somalia.

Are you from Ogaden?

[Afriq]

Ethiopians, Somalia’s and Eritreans share similar cultures. The problems between us have been made worse by external forces and exaggerated by ignorant and radical elements within each group. We may have political problems here are there but as each country increases its development and democratization our ties will get stronger.

[The Nomadic Warrior]

Originally Posted by Yoniii

Are you from Ogaden?

Yes, I was born in Dire Dawa.

[Yoniii]

Originally Posted by The Nomadic Warrior

Yes, I was born in Dire Dawa.

Did you grow up in Ethiopia? I guess you are of Somali ancestry, were you treated bad by other groups in Ethiopia?

[The Nomadic Warrior]

Originally Posted by Yoniii

Did you grow up in Ethiopia? I guess you are of Somali ancestry, were you treated bad by other groups in Ethiopia?

I left when I was around 6 years old. No group in Ethiopia treated us badly. We got along with the Oromos and others fine. The problem was the government(Tplf).

[I.M Boring]

In Kenya, there are two hundred and fifty thousand Somali refugees, and tens of thousands of Sudanese refugees. This is the reason why I started the (ill fated) annexing Somalia thread in the Oasis section. The UN runs these camps for the most part, but the situation is dire due to poor housing ( a simple tent) and bad nutrition. The refugees sometimes also pose security threats by smuggling illegal arms into Kenya, and increasing armed robberies. Some seven thousand Somali refugees cross the border into Kenya every two weeks, and about sixty thousand every year (maybe more or less now). I hope one day peace returns to Somalia so they can go back to rebuild their nation.

[The Nomadic Warrior]

Originally Posted by I.M Boring

I feel sorry for the Somali refugees that get displaced by war. And the way they live in those camps is heartbreaking to say the least. In Kenya, there are two hundred and fifty thousand Somali refugees, and tens of thousands of Sudanese refugees. This is the reason why I started the (ill fated) annexing Somalia thread in the Oasis section. The UN runs these camps for the most part, but the situation is dire due to poor housing ( a simple tent) and bad nutrition. The refugees sometimes also pose security threats by smuggling illegal arms into Kenya, and increasing armed robberies. Some seven thousand Somali refugees cross the border into Kenya every two weeks, and about sixty thousand every year (maybe more or less now). The really sad part is that most of them end up loving Kenya, but the government is a little unwilling to give them citizenship. I hope one day peace returns to Somalia so they can go back to rebuild their nation.

On a more personal note, the Somalis iv'e met (with the exception of a few here in SSC (Ja'far)) seem to be pretty decent people. *some* of them look down on other Africans and they call themselves Arab and all sorts of other things. My mom once met a young Somali girl who had this problem. I also hear that the men do not allow their daughters to get married to other Africans excepts Somalis. This is a real shame to be honest

I think with proper education, this inferiority thing they have towards Africans is going to pass.

edit/ I found this interesting article on Somali Christians in Kenya. It's a shame what other Somalis are doing to them
I mean really? How can you attack your own kind in a foreign nation?!?! I thought people usually stood together under these circumstances! I know first hand that Kenyan communities in other countries stick pretty close together. How Somalis got this animosity towards each other I will never understand

Nothing is wrong with Somalis wanting to marry Somalis not other Africans. They are trying to keep their culture and preserve their lineage. Barely any Somalis calls themself or herself Arab, maybe a very few individuals; not a large section of the population.

Also that link you posted smells bullshit. Those people in the picture are clearly not Somalis

[ALIYARE]

Oh again! the bastard mulato kid insulting the somali yet?
Feel sorry for your own people who are killing the children and the women, kikuyu vs luo.
even could not solve your own problem,
somali refugees living in tent so kenyans too the victams of last election.

[I.M Boring]

Originally Posted by ALIYARE

Oh again! the bastard mulato kid insulting the somali yet?
Feel sorry for your own people who are killing the children and the women, kikuyu vs luo.
even could not solve your own problem,
somali refugees living in tent so kenyans too the victams of last election.

hey! how many times have I insulted you? I have never said that I don't like Somalis, in fact I have more than a few Somali friends. I grew up with Somalis and I know them first hand. Stop throwing insults over the internet, it really looks bad ok?

[Ras Siyan]

The problem is not an Ethiopian one but a regional one. Look at the bigger map, there are Somalian refugees in Ethiopia, Ethiopian refugees in Somalia (Puntland), Eritrean refugees in Ethiopia, Ethiopian and Somalian refugees in Djibouti ect...

[Yoniii]

Originally Posted by Ras Siyan

The problem is not an Ethiopian one but a regional one. Look at the bigger map, there are Somalian refugees in Ethiopia, Ethiopian refugees in Somalia (Puntland), Eritrean refugees in Ethiopia, Ethiopian and Somalian refugees in Djibouti ect...

You've got a point, but the number of Kenyan and Ethiopian refugees are very small compared to Somali because of obvious reasons.

Ethiopia is already a poor country, and we are supposed to take care of thousands of new refugees from north and east.. and remember that these are people that probably sees us as the biggest enemy in the world.

I don't mind setting up camps on our side of the border, if the international community can take of them. But it's expensive for us and our nurses are working at those camps instead of working at our own hospitals and clinics, Ethiopia needs all the medical staff it can get. There are more Ethiopian doctors in Chicago, than in Ethiopia - that's how serious the situation is.

[I.M Boring]

Originally Posted by Yoniii

You've got a point, but the number of Kenyan and Ethiopian refugees are very small compared to Somali because of obvious reasons.

Ethiopia is already a poor country, and we are supposed to take care of thousands of new refugees from north and east.. and remember that these are people that probably sees us as the biggest enemy in the world.

Also agreed. But you can not shut down the border without breaking international law.

I don't mind setting up camps on our side of the border, if the international community can take of them. But it's expensive for us and our nurses are working at those camps instead of working at our own hospitals and clinics, Ethiopia needs all the medical staff it can get.

Ethiopia needs these doctors, but the only way to decrease the demand for them from the Somalis is by re-establishing a peaceful state. That doen't seem likely to hapen any time soon. On the other hand, Ethiopia could recognise Somaliland and send all the refugees there instead. The other way to do this is if you had compitent leaders in power that actually put real effort into training more doctors and nurses in the country.

There are more Ethiopian doctors in Chicago, than in Ethiopia - that's how serious the situation is.

Hopefully the situation will change before too long. For Ethiopia's sake.

[ja'far]

Originally Posted by I.M Boring

I feel sorry for the Somali refugees that get displaced by war. And the way they live in those camps is heartbreaking to say the least. In Kenya, there are two hundred and fifty thousand Somali refugees, and tens of thousands of Sudanese refugees. This is the reason why I started the (ill fated) annexing Somalia thread in the Oasis section. The UN runs these camps for the most part, but the situation is dire due to poor housing ( a simple tent) and bad nutrition. The refugees sometimes also pose security threats by smuggling illegal arms into Kenya, and increasing armed robberies. Some seven thousand Somali refugees cross the border into Kenya every two weeks, and about sixty thousand every year (maybe more or less now). The really sad part is that most of them end up loving Kenya, but the government is a little unwilling to give them citizenship. I hope one day peace returns to Somalia so they can go back to rebuild their nation.

On a more personal note, the Somalis iv'e met (with the exception of a few here in SSC (Ja'far)) seem to be pretty decent people. *some* of them look down on other Africans and they call themselves Arab and all sorts of other things. My mom once met a young Somali girl who had this problem. I also hear that the men do not allow their daughters to get married to other Africans excepts Somalis. This is a real shame to be honest

I think with proper education, this inferiority thing they have towards Africans is going to pass.

edit/ I found this interesting article on Somali Christians in Kenya. It's a shame what other Somalis are doing to them
I mean really? How can you attack your own kind in a foreign nation?!?! I thought people usually stood together under these circumstances! I know first hand that Kenyan communities in other countries stick pretty close together. How Somalis got this animosity towards each other I will never understand

well, about annexing somalia, you posted a photo of an article written by a kenyan lawyer. i will post the rest of the story soon. Furthermore, i didn't insult you. You can't put shit like that on the net and not expect people to react.

[ja'far]

Why Kenya and Ethiopia ought to annex and divide Somalia

By DONALD KIPKORIR, dkipkorir@ktk.co.ke
Posted Friday, October 3 2008 at 19:36

Last month, Lehmans Brothers and Merrill Lynch, the world’s foremost investment banks, went bankrupt and we witnessed the financial chaos in the western capitals.

In the fog of international headlines on finding a financial bail-out in Washington, a rag-tag army of 50 semi-naked men on rickety boats captured a ship carrying 33 T-72 tanks, rocket-propelled grenades and anti-aircraft guns off the coast of Somalia.

The capture of mv Faina and the stalemated talks amid the surrounding American and Russian warships made me think that maybe this is the time to find a final solution to the Somali problem.

Since 1960, the country has been a lawless state that is a haven for terrorists and pirates. The pirates have told us the destination of the captured weaponry causing tension and panic in Washington, Nairobi and Khartoum.

If it is true that the final consignee was the government of Southern Sudan, as they allege, I will be on the same page with the Kibaki government for the first time.

I am a fervent supporter of a strategic foreign policy even if it attracts us enemies of such malevolent and despotic regimes as that of Khartoum.

Supporting the Southern Sudan government is in our long-term strategic interest and we should not shy from it. The truth of the matter is that as a Western ally, Kenya is an existential enemy of Arab countries, Sudan included.

Annexing Somalia is thus in our strategic interest and we must do it now as the financial meltdown continues to take away the attention of the world.

Somalia as a state exists only in world maps. It is a classic case of a failed state. It is a state dismembered into as many independent units as there are sub-clans. Its 90-strong cabinet is emblematic of the actual number of units.

The Horn of Africa country has no functioning government. The so-called transitional federal government, led by Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed, is confined to a shell-shocked presidential compound.

There is no standing or even sitting army or judicial systems. By all accounts, Somalia is a black hole in international law. Together with Afghanistan and Pakistan they are known as the training grounds and refuge for international terrorism.

Kenya has been a victim of such terrorism, leading to near-destruction of its tourism industry. We cannot afford another such attack. We have the potential to develop our tourism to compete with, if not outpace, Egypt and South Africa. But we cannot do so if Somalia continues to be a non-state.

Somalia neighbours Kenya, Ethiopia and Djibouti. Of these, it is only Ethiopia and Kenya that have strategic interest in Somalia. Djibouti is a primitive entrepot that can’t even supply water to its 600,000 people, who are forced to drink that imported from France or Coca Cola. Therefore, Djibouti is out in the quest for the final solution to the Somali puzzle.

Kenya and Ethiopia must and ought to dismember Somalia and divide it between themselves along the 4 degrees latitude, each taking all the land below and above the line.

The division will make both countries extend their territories by roughly 300,000sq km and additional populations of about five million.

Once Kenya and Ethiopia have sent their combined army to Somalia and declared the annexation, we will present to the world a fait accompli.

In 1845, America annexed Texas from Mexico and forced the Texan legislature to pass a specific legislation stating that it accepted the annexation. The annexation has stood to date and, for good measure, President George W. Bush is a proud American Texan.

For Kenya and Ethiopia, having the Somali legislature to endorse the annexation will be cake-walk. At any given time, most, if not all, Somali legislators are in Nairobi.

We will have them convene in one of our hotels and to pass the appropriate statutes dividing their country.

When the allied forces liberated Germany from Fuhrer Adolf Hitler, they sent the bill to Berlin.


Our cost of annexing Somalia will be settled by Mogadishu. Somalia is known to have huge deposits of oil, natural gas, uranium and iron ore. Immediately after the annexation, we will invite our strategic foreign friends (not China please) to come and exploit the resources for us.

Kenyans ought to know that although Somalia is a failed state, its positive statistics are impressive. Without a structured economy, its gross national income per capita is US$600 (Sh40,000), when ours is $550 (Sh36,800). Of its universities that operate without budgets and with armed militia guarding them, three are in Africa’s top 100.

International law forbids the use of force by states against the territorial integrity and political independence of others. Somalia doesn’t have either.

But the law also recognises irreversible processes like the extinction of states such as in the USSR, emergence of new states from former USSR and Yugoslavia, and annexations like that of Texas. International order hates reversing completed processes, more so if the world is a better place.

If we do not annex Somalia and now, we will be a victim of its failed status and pulled down by it. We will not be able to achieve our strategic foreign policy in the region, or attain the Vision 2030 goal.

The time to annex and dismember Somalia is now; Washington and Moscow will be grateful.

[Yoniii]

That's just crazy. A stable, non-extremist Somalia is in our interest.

Trying to annex Somalia will only make it worse for everyone in the region.

[ja'far]

Originally Posted by Yoniii

That's just crazy. A stable, non-extremist Somalia is in our interest.

Trying to annex Somalia will only make it worse for everyone in the region.

Crazy indeed. instead of some of you guys saying Al shabab this Al shabab that? You need to know every story has two sides, your only getting one.

[ERIFreedomFighter]

Nobody is fleeing to the impoverished nation of Ethiopia. Ethiopia itself is one big refugee camp. Besides even if people were "fleeing" to Ethiopia it is not as if your government is taking care of them. They will be taking care of by foreign agencies, the same agencies that keep Ethiopia on life support with food aid and loans.