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Old February 27th, 2012, 03:54 PM   #61
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Wisła Płock- Orlen Arena (5,381 for handball)



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Old February 27th, 2012, 03:55 PM   #62
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Old February 27th, 2012, 06:08 PM   #63
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looks bigger
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Old February 27th, 2012, 06:14 PM   #64
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it has awful side...

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Old February 28th, 2012, 01:42 AM   #65
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HC Metalurg @ SC Boris Trajkovski - Skopje







They don't have some fanatic fans, so the atmosphere is more like theatrical. Only famous and rich persons "support" this club. Because of that they have 6k attendance. Too bad that HC Vardar hasn't got powerful team, because when HC Vardar played EHF CL there was hell atmosphere.
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Old February 28th, 2012, 09:04 PM   #66
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I found some statistics about club's budgets. This is for sure one of the poorest competition in whole Europe (i don't know only how big are the budgets of the European volleyball teams). Even the teams who compete in the basketball ULEB Eurocup have bigger budgets.

1. AG København 13.3 million
2. THW Kiel 9.5 million
3. FC Barcelona Intersport 9 million
4. HSV Hamburg 9 million
5. Montpellier HB 6.7 million
6. Atlético Madrid 6.5 million
7. Vive Targi Kielce 6 million
8. IK Sävehof 5.4 million
9. Füchse Berlin 4.7 million
10. Orlen Wisła Płock 3.8 million
11. RK Zagreb 3.5 million
12. MKB Veszprém KC 3.5 million
13. CB Ademar León 3.2 million
14. RK Cimos Koper 2.7 million
15. Kadetten Schaffhausen 2.5 million
16. HC Metalurg 1.5 million
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Old February 28th, 2012, 09:17 PM   #67
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There's no spectacular money in handball.. its extremely popular as amateur and recreational sport all over the continent (with exception of uk) but pro's don't really earn that much.
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Old February 28th, 2012, 09:39 PM   #68
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I know that players like Lazarov, Balic. Ilic, Vori and etc earns 150-200k euro, but it's still too poor to have 14 players in the team, to win the competition and at the end of the day to construct your budget to 9 million (Barca). And if we take the Kiel situation and if we know that every match they have sold out Arena, it gets that selling tickets is one of the major "sponsors" of the team.
It would be good if someone post the highest payed handball players in the world. Somewhere I found that Karabatic earns around 500k, but that was in the time when he played for THW Kiel.
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Old February 29th, 2012, 01:46 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N23SK View Post
I found some statistics about club's budgets. This is for sure one of the poorest competition in whole Europe (i don't know only how big are the budgets of the European volleyball teams). Even the teams who compete in the basketball ULEB Eurocup have bigger budgets.

1. AG København 13.3 million
2. THW Kiel 9.5 million
3. FC Barcelona Intersport 9 million
4. HSV Hamburg 9 million
5. Montpellier HB 6.7 million
6. Atlético Madrid 6.5 million
7. Vive Targi Kielce 6 million
8. IK Sävehof 5.4 million
9. Füchse Berlin 4.7 million
10. Orlen Wisła Płock 3.8 million
11. RK Zagreb 3.5 million
12. MKB Veszprém KC 3.5 million
13. CB Ademar León 3.2 million
14. RK Cimos Koper 2.7 million
15. Kadetten Schaffhausen 2.5 million
16. HC Metalurg 1.5 million

Yes, there's a lot less money in European Handball than in Basketball but there's now more money in than in Volleyball! Which is only really popular in Greece and Italy these days!
Handball is on the rise and clubs budgets are definitely on the up! However paychecks are kept in check. Nikola Karabatic is still pretty much the number one player in terms of paycheck as is salary is reported to be still north of 450k a year in Montpellier! The transfer mechanisms are also on the rise with teams trying to negotiate better deals for their players but as a market it is still pretty immature.

However as a professional sport Handball is catching up quite quickly and local championships are structuring nicely imo! Handball was nowhere 10 years ago and now they are ahead of European Volleyball in terms of media coverage!

The German Bundesliga being for sure the number one league followed closely by the Spanish Liga Asobal! Both leagues enjoy good media coverage allowing their clubs to become European behemoths. Talking about my local market the french LNH is also structuring! The clubs are working to secure more budget and pushing for new arenas to be build! I heard the same things from Denmark and Norway! The leagues are small but well managed! I think the very essence of the sport is different! it's really a high school sport and still pretty much feels like it! That's probably why I love it

And the sport is also pushing on the world stage with very competitive teams now coming from Africa (Angola, Egypt, Tunisia), Asia (Korea), South America (Argentina)

Last edited by Neda Say; February 29th, 2012 at 02:11 AM.
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Old February 29th, 2012, 02:40 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neda Say View Post
Yes, there's a lot less money in European Handball than in Basketball but there's now more money in than in Volleyball! Which is only really popular in Greece and Italy these days!
Handball is on the rise and clubs budgets are definitely on the up! However paychecks are kept in check. Nikola Karabatic is still pretty much the number one player in terms of paycheck as is salary is reported to be still north of 450k a year in Montpellier! The transfer mechanisms are also on the rise with teams trying to negotiate better deals for their players but as a market it is still pretty immature.

However as a professional sport Handball is catching up quite quickly and local championships are structuring nicely imo! Handball was nowhere 10 years ago and now they are ahead of European Volleyball in terms of media coverage!

The German Bundesliga being for sure the number one league followed closely by the Spanish Liga Asobal! Both leagues enjoy good media coverage allowing their clubs to become European behemoths. Talking about my local market the french LNH is also structuring! The clubs are working to secure more budget and pushing for new arenas to be build! I heard the same things from Denmark and Norway! The leagues are small but well managed! I think the very essence of the sport is different! it's really a high school sport and still pretty much feels like it! That's probably why I love it

And the sport is also pushing on the world stage with very competitive teams now coming from Africa (Angola, Egypt, Tunisia), Asia (Korea), South America (Argentina)
As I said, I don't know anything about club volleyball in Europe. But still, handball is behind hockey, rugby (although it's played only in few European countries) and basketball. Absolutely Bundesliga is the best handball league, but I cannot agree that Spanish ASOBAL is that strong as it was. I can see that in Spain attendance is lower by years, and I guess that in few years regional SEHA league and French LNH would be better than Spanish. For example Barcelona has around 1500 spectators and their second best team has around 2000 (Atletico Madrid). This numbers are for national championship. I hope that Balkan countries will rise their club handball again, as now Macedonia is doing with two pretty rich clubs, but still Serbia has poor teams, also as Croatia (they got only two eminent clubs). If EHF wasn't that corrupted and "close" federation, nowadays handball would be third best club sport.
For me, the main problem still is that the club budgets aren't rising as it was expect. For example, previous years Kiel had 10.5 million budget, nowadays their budget is 1 million lower. Rhein Neckar Lowen, who had great potential, now is middle class team. I hope that the danish dream team of Copenhagen will motivate others to create more powerful teams which will mean that the wages will be bigger. Handball as game deserves more European media attention.
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Old February 29th, 2012, 07:51 PM   #71
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You may know that Atletico Madrid is not really the Atletico! It is the former Ciudad Real Balonmano club and their attendance sunk when they had to relocate last! So they numbers are flawed it will take time for the graft to take in Madrid! As for Budget cuts well I heard Europe was going through a crisis so it's not surprising to have clubs not having the same means than 2/3 years ago! Look at all leagues in Europe they are cutting on expenses cause the money is just not there!

If Handball is behind Basketball and Hockey, it's only logical! The rise of European handball happened after Sydney Olympics! When EHF really pushed for a European Championsleague and a more unified competition copying the UEFA organization which is the most professional federation in Europe!

However relying entirely on the European body won't be enough anyway especially with a weak economy!

Today, Germany, Spain, France and Denmark have the most attractive championships but it will be a while before France and Denmark are able to gain the firepower or Spain and Germany! But it is good to see that Norway is also stepping up its game! Really the only disappointment would be Russia!

I'm also wondering how long Asobal will be able to sustain 16 clubs when the country is facing a very rought patch!

Germany Bundesliga has 18 clubs, Spain has 16 teams. France and Denmark have opted for a 14 teams format which is wise but does not generate lots of TV money! In all case I think money won't come from TV rights as much as in let's say football! Therefore clubs are pushing for new arenas! The process for sure is slow but it does offer some guarantees!
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Old February 29th, 2012, 08:31 PM   #72
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I think You should add also Poland. 2 clubs in 10 richest are from Poland.
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Old February 29th, 2012, 11:25 PM   #73
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I don't want to show me as anti-handball fan. I'm big fan of this sport, but I'm totally disappointed that there's not any progress in the last 5-7 years, since EHF tried to copy UEFA and ULEB. In my country, almost every year we have CL club. It is Vardar or nowadays Metalurg. The organization is still same. Not the clubs organization. I mean EHF organization. They still don't carry if matches are broadcast with 4-5 cameras, they don't matter about the tickets, they still have pretty poor site (visit euroleague.net so you can compare with the handball situation), they are still giving final four organization to the city of Cologne and etc. You can visit the sites of Marca and AS, two main sport daily papers in Spain and see how many handball stories and reports they have. It's so poor.
I understand you. You're trying to show me that the situation is going better. But it's not as it seems. Teams cut their budgets in every sport, but that's not argument why in handball the situation is still status quo. For me, handball is only entertainment fun for people from small cities in Germany, France, Spain and that only in small Balkan countries is present in the huge cities, in the capital cities.
Also I know about the Atletico Madrid situation. But that's not the reason why in million+ city there are only 2k. Local basketball club Estudiantes has 9-10k on every game.
Am glad that Poland is making strong teams, but in my opinion in the next 10 years handball will still be played in several countries like Iceland, Germany, Spain, Slovakia, France, Croatia, Slovenia, Serbia, Macedonia, Poland, Denmark, Norway, Hungary, Czech Republic and maybe Bosnia, Montenegro, Austria and Russia.
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Old February 29th, 2012, 11:53 PM   #74
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Ice hockey and basketball are actively doing on promotion and expansion of their markets, fan bases and general image of the sport. That's why they are bigger and stronger than handball in every single aspect at this momemnt. One average player in top leagues in basketball and ice hockey earns more than entire top notch handball team.

EHF doesn't help the clubs in any way.. there's no mutual sponsors, there's no mutual marketing.. they are stuck in the past and sadly i don't see it changing anytime soon. Same old people that live from the handball and not for it.

TV rights are especially sad part. Income is basically non existent. Clubs and EHF even pay the TV stations to broadcast their matches and not the other way around. On other hand major leagues in basketball and ice hockey get multi-country deals worth a lot.

Its all done so.. amateur..

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1099893

Basketball numbers are around the same i'd guess.. maybe a bit lower.. but still.. very high.

Handball can only dream of such numbers

It kills me to see that only international competitions are really well done and organized.

CL final four in handball will again go unnoticed.. apart from the fans of the teams that play on it.

On other hand Euroleague final 4 will have world wide broadcast.. turned into few days long event in the host city.
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Old March 1st, 2012, 12:08 AM   #75
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Well, Polish federations is 100% unprofessional. Hanball is very dynamic and attractive for eye sport and attracts a lot of fans- but there is no proper organisation. We should host hanball tournament long time ago but we did not- they are unable to organize it.

I think it's also the case with basketball in Poland(although we organized Eurobasket), except volleyball- where we have probably one of the strongest leagues in Europe.
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Old March 1st, 2012, 04:39 AM   #76
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SpicyMcHaggis Do you know how much is HRT paying to RK Zagreb for their matches, or they broadcast for free?
About the club's budgets, it depends, but this year's biggest budget is around 30-35 million euro, maybe a little bit lower. But 2 years ago there were budgets of 40 and 50 million euros, especially before the economic crisis in Greece. I speak only for Euroleague. The lowest is around 3 million (Olimpija Ljubljana), so I can say that Euroleague is almost same with KHL. But if we look that teems need less players than in hockey, by player it's maybe more rich competition. But still, especially Greek, Turkish, Russian and Spanish teams earns enormous money from TV rights. Not so enormous like in UEFA CL, but still, for a second best European competition in which you need only 12-14 players, receiving TV-rights money is way bigger than in the other sports.
If EHF don't decide to rotate the final four tournaments in many countries, there won't be any brighter days for the EHF CL. Even SEHA league can be more organized than the people in Vienna HQ.
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Old March 1st, 2012, 02:17 PM   #77
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Big budget basketball clubs are unfortunately also history.. apart from Turkey and Spain. Crisis hit the Greek clubs really hard. I'd say that the top clubs can maybe compete with top ice hockey clubs but outside of those few elite clubs everyone else struggles.. and in ice hockey you have 8, 9 good paying (100k+ per player) leagues while in basketball its just 5, 6 (Turkey, Greece, VTB, ABA, Spain, Italy.. maybe few other clubs around the continent as well (Bayer etc)).

But basketball will bounce back.. its problem is that its mostly popular in areas where financial crisis is big.. but the interest and fan support didn't drop. That's most important.

As for HRT and RK Zagreb... peanuts.
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Old March 1st, 2012, 03:14 PM   #78
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Quote:
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I found some statistics about club's budgets. This is for sure one of the poorest competition in whole Europe (i don't know only how big are the budgets of the European volleyball teams). Even the teams who compete in the basketball ULEB Eurocup have bigger budgets.

Nobody knows how big are budgets of volleyball clubs, nobody publishes it. The best players in Poland get around 250k Euro per season. Russians and Italians pay more.Greek league is a history.

For sure situation of handball in europe is much better now. Volleyball CL has no sponsors (sic!) and clubs have to pay more than they get from european cups.National leagues from Russia, Poland and Italy are much better organized than european cups.

Guys from EHF are developing their sport very good.

Last edited by likasz; March 1st, 2012 at 03:28 PM.
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Old March 1st, 2012, 04:39 PM   #79
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Big budget basketball clubs are unfortunately also history.. apart from Turkey and Spain. Crisis hit the Greek clubs really hard. I'd say that the top clubs can maybe compete with top ice hockey clubs but outside of those few elite clubs everyone else struggles.. and in ice hockey you have 8, 9 good paying (100k+ per player) leagues while in basketball its just 5, 6 (Turkey, Greece, VTB, ABA, Spain, Italy.. maybe few other clubs around the continent as well (Bayer etc)).

But basketball will bounce back.. its problem is that its mostly popular in areas where financial crisis is big.. but the interest and fan support didn't drop. That's most important.
This is very important. Basketball fans never left out their teams. As I saw last week's Cibona-Partizan match, there very nearly 4.5k in the hall. Red Star fans are coming back to the matches, while handball clubs when they start to show poor results, the fans are leaving and focusing on another sport. This is my opinion based on watching matches on TV.
Although there's crisis in Greece, still the most payed players earns 2-2.5 million per year, and it seems that beside crisis they have respectable teams. There interesting thing that one basketball player in Macedonian teams earns 150-170k per year and a lot of another player earns from 50-80k per year, which is wage that some handball players earns in the best Bundesliga.
If EHF don't realize the real situation, there won't be some dramatical changes. Still we have arenas with 2-3k, more than 20 years old and the most important thing there's not define date and hour when the teams can play. Germans play on Thursdays, Russians on Sunday noon, Barcelona every Saturday at 4:00 and etc.
Just because there are still dedicated fans to their handball clubs, there's still some competitiveness, because if we let handball only to the Germans and Scandinavians, it will be a theatrical show for small citites.
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Old March 2nd, 2012, 12:46 AM   #80
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Speaking of attendances at sports games in Europe, I was amazed when I saw how many spectators there were at games at the European Water Polo Championship in Eindhoven. The very first game (Macedonia vs. Turkey) had an attendance of only 150 and the final only had 2,300.
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