daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > General Urban Developments > DN Archives



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 6th, 2011, 03:17 PM   #841
oli83
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Munich
Posts: 1,684
Likes (Received): 999

Some new views, taken from a German news article http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/gesells...778504,00.html

Michael Arad..








oli83 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 7th, 2011, 12:38 AM   #842
Martin S
Registered User
 
Martin S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 10,141
Likes (Received): 3085

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubba View Post
Wow! those lights are amazing one of the best memorials in the world and a excellent tribute to those lost on 9/11 and the twin towers themselves.
I wouldn't disagree with this as I am sure that the September 11th memorial is going to be a 'must see' for every visitor to NYC. I predict though that people in NYC and the USA may be taken aback by some of the reaction to it - especially from non-Americans.

Whilst I love NYC and don't want to sound insulting, I think that a lot of non-Americans are going to see this as an exercise in self-indulgence.

Ever since September 11th 2001, the events of that day have attracted a great deal of hyperbole. From the start, the site of the disaster was called 'Ground Zero' - a term formerly reserved for the centre of a nuclear explosion. September 11th was a terrible event but nothing on that scale.

Then, when I went to NYC in 2005, I saw the hoarding around the site listing the names of the people who died on that day under the heading 'The Heroes of September 11th'. Now, the people who died on that day were horribly unfortunate but to call every single one of them a hero is simply not true. A hero has a choice - save him/herself or help somebody else - most of the people who died on 9/11 had no choice. A far more truthful heading would have been 'The Victims of September 11th' but that did not seem to fit the prevailing mood.

The fact is that, as man-made disasters go, September 11th was not in the top league. Most cities in Europe in living memory will have experienced far worse than 9/11 without erecting memorials on anything like this scale. My home town of Liverpool, which is much smaller than NYC, suffered far worse during the German bombing of 1941 and we got off lightly compared to many European cities. At a conservative estimate, Dresden lost 30,000 of its people in one night of bombing and suffered the complete destruction of its historic city centre. In fact, the war caused so much devastation that hardly any town had the time or money to think about large memorials to their dead citizens.

September 11th was an unusual event in that it was so localised. In fact, the memorial itself seems to cover most of the site where the greatest destruction took place. Within a few days of the disaster, joggers were jogging in Central Park, the NY Stock Exchange had reopened, people were going to Broadway theatres and David Letterman was doing his show. When I went there four years later, there was little or no sign of the disaster apart from a large construction site in the downtown area.

September 11th was also unusual in that it was by far the most publicised disaster of all time. There isn't a single photograph of the sinking of the Titanic but the planes hitting the WTC, the people falling from the buildings and the collapse of the towers is covered in literally thousands of amateur and professional videos and still photographs.

All this combined reminds me of that famous broadcast from New Jersey of the crash of the Hindenberg airship back in the 30s. According to the shocked radio commentator it was 'the most terrible catastrophe in the history of the world' but it wasn't - just one of those things and, as time goes by, we are increasingly coming to see September 11th as 'just one of those things' - not the fight between civilisation and barbarism that it was once seen as.

This isn't to say that there should not be a memorial to 9/11 - just that it needs to be in proportion to the event and to recognise that other cities have and, in some cases, still are suffering a far worse fate.
Martin S no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2011, 01:18 AM   #843
desertpunk
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
 
desertpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ELP ~ ABQ
Posts: 55,648
Likes (Received): 53449

image hosted on flickr

(PixUp) by morrongiello, on Flickr
__________________
We are floating in space...
desertpunk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2011, 04:25 AM   #844
steve1young
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 124
Likes (Received): 18

Martin, You make some excellent points in your post. While I personally don't disagree with what you have to say, I have a feeling you're going to catch a lot of heat for it. Hopefully, people will try and reflect a bit and really consider what your message before tearing you down. I admire your gumption.
steve1young no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2011, 08:47 AM   #845
Ellatur
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,441
Likes (Received): 10

so how much of the museum is underground? the pavillion seems to small to house sizeable exhibit. it'd be awesome to have all of the underground space under the national memorial as the museum
Ellatur no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2011, 01:33 PM   #846
Martin S
Registered User
 
Martin S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 10,141
Likes (Received): 3085

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1young View Post
Martin, You make some excellent points in your post. While I personally don't disagree with what you have to say, I have a feeling you're going to catch a lot of heat for it. Hopefully, people will try and reflect a bit and really consider what your message before tearing you down. I admire your gumption.
Well, it does help being 3,000 miles away on another continent. All the same, I did hesitate before posting because I really like New York and didn't want to come over as someone belittling the suffering on that day or being some conspiracy theorist.

I think that there is a danger in over-memorialising an event as much as under-memorialising it - you run the risk of overlooking the individuals involved - most of whom were probably not heroes but who didn't deserve their fate - and concentrating on the geo-political impact of September 11th.
Martin S no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2011, 04:23 PM   #847
Otie
Researcher
 
Otie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,117
Likes (Received): 2186

in.formed

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr

2011-08-06 59 by in.formed, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

2011-08-06 20 by in.formed, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

2011-08-05 16 by in.formed, on Flickr
Otie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2011, 09:05 PM   #848
patrick989
Registered User
 
patrick989's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 301
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin S View Post
Well, it does help being 3,000 miles away on another continent. All the same, I did hesitate before posting because I really like New York and didn't want to come over as someone belittling the suffering on that day or being some conspiracy theorist.

I think that there is a danger in over-memorialising an event as much as under-memorialising it - you run the risk of overlooking the individuals involved - most of whom were probably not heroes but who didn't deserve their fate - and concentrating on the geo-political impact of September 11th.
Coming from a New Yorker who lived through it, you do make good and fair points in your post. There have been much larger scale instances of turmoil in the history of many other countries than what we experienced on 9/11. Even I've thought the preservation of the tower's footprints as "hallowed ground" is really overblown. Rebuilding everything exactly as it was would have been the best memorial, maybe with a wall filled with all the victims' names as a tribute (except the bastard terrorists of course). But of course that didn't happen, and it really irks me to think they might charge money to enter that museum next year.
patrick989 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2011, 11:11 PM   #849
Martin S
Registered User
 
Martin S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 10,141
Likes (Received): 3085

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick989 View Post
Coming from a New Yorker who lived through it, you do make good and fair points in your post. There have been much larger scale instances of turmoil in the history of many other countries than what we experienced on 9/11. Even I've thought the preservation of the tower's footprints as "hallowed ground" is really overblown. Rebuilding everything exactly as it was would have been the best memorial, maybe with a wall filled with all the victims' names as a tribute (except the bastard terrorists of course). But of course that didn't happen, and it really irks me to think they might charge money to enter that museum next year.
I don't know about "hallowed ground" but I don't see anything wrong in preserving the towers footprints - maybe just with a different type of paving. However, the waterfalls seem to be just over the top. I am sure they will be spectacular but I don't see how they are related to the events of 9/11.

What I would fear is that the waterfalls will become such a tourist attraction that the relatives and friends of the victims will find that they need is some peace for contemplation.
Martin S no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2011, 02:52 AM   #850
zapor1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 298
Likes (Received): 31

With those lights now, I now regret booking my 9/11 memorial tickets during the day.
zapor1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2011, 03:31 AM   #851
pnapp1
Die-Hard New Yorker!
 
pnapp1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: LI, New York
Posts: 302
Likes (Received): 353

Quote:
Originally Posted by zapor1 View Post
With those lights now, I now regret booking my 9/11 memorial tickets during the day.
+1
pnapp1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2011, 11:56 PM   #852
Otie
Researcher
 
Otie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,117
Likes (Received): 2186

image hosted on flickr

20110802_171640.jpg by stvtron, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

20110802_171656.jpg by stvtron, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

World Trade Center Memorial Progress by Cory Silva, on Flickr
Otie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2011, 01:49 AM   #853
Kanto
Roof height crusader
 
Kanto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: S-4, Papoose Lake
Posts: 5,925
Likes (Received): 3546

Okay, so in the last months I slowly learned to love the new WTC. At first I thought I would never forgive them not rebuilding the twins, but now I feel okay with what they're building there, sure, the twins would have been better, but the new WTC looks fine as well. Also, while I like the twins far more, I can imagine other people loving the new WTC more. Both complexes are architecturaly beautiful and both have their way of contributing to the skyline. The twins dominated the skyline and let all other buildings to be forgotten, on the other hand the new complex perfectly works with it's surroundings, creating a skyline effect that looks to me as natural as a mountain. I think that this new WTC will slowly make it's way to the hearts of the people just as it did to my heart. So, to put it short, I love the new WTC

However, there is one exception. This exception are the two huge toilets they call memorials. I hate them, and I think the victims of 9/11 deserve far more than two toilets. The effect of this toilets is like saying "let's flush 9/11 like we do with crap". I know these are a bit harsh words, but it is as I feel it, and I won't pretend to love these toilets when I in fact hate them. A forumer here said that there have been worse man made disasters than 9/11, but I would like to mention that number of dead people isn't the only measurement of a disaster. In WW2 the people who were bombed at least mostly knew that it is war and that they could be attacked. The victims of 9/11 didn't know anything. They just went to work like every tuesday, they arrived at work like every tuesday, they worked like every tuesday and then BOOOOM, they were gone. Imagine one second happily looking at the boobs of the girl which has an office next to yours and one second later you are shredded into a million pieces by an airliner. Well, I don't know about you folks, but that is a rather spooky thought to me. In my opinion 9/11 was indeed one of the worst disasters in history and it should be properly memorized. In my opinion 1WTC itself should have been the memorial. It should have had offices in it's floors above the concrete base but inside the concrete base it should have had the memorial museum with a burial chamber like from the pyramids being in the undergeround levels. The tablets with the victim's names should have been used as cladding of the concrete base. This would make 1WTC the biggest tombstone ever made. A memorial worthy of the catastrophe that 9/11 was.

But no, instead they made the memorial to be two huge toilets They should at least turn them into swimming pools so that they serve at least some purpose since they fail so badly as serving as memorials
__________________
The Outbreak: A free browser online strategy game. Build up your town and compete with other towns economicaly and militarily.
http://www.the-outbreak.com/
Kanto no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2011, 02:04 AM   #854
westmc9th
NYC=Amazing
 
westmc9th's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 254
Likes (Received): 6

^ so because you dont like the memorial you believe people should swim in it? Wow. I love this memorial i believe that it is the best one out of the proposed ones, a memorial in the "bunker" of 1 wtc would not show what this memorial is supposed to represent, the memorial is supposed to represent a free space, and how we remember but we can also grow and not be scared of terrorism forever. The memorial are not 2 giant toilets as you perceive them to be, i believe that they are the tears that flowed from almost every American face on that day. I love the whole complex I believe there could have been better ways to build it, no i do not have never supported rebuilding the twins, we needed new monuments to represent them sorry Kanto seems like we can not agree on anything

Also 1 wtc is not supposed to be considered part of the memorial it is a building to replace the twins but yes it will be considered part of the memorial by the public more than likely, but tombstones were not and will never be appropriate on any of the buildings
__________________
New York City = My Heart
westmc9th no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2011, 02:06 AM   #855
westmc9th
NYC=Amazing
 
westmc9th's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 254
Likes (Received): 6

double post sorry!
__________________
New York City = My Heart
westmc9th no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2011, 04:25 AM   #856
abuabu
Registered User
 
abuabu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 72
Likes (Received): 3

kanto, are you drunk?
i think the memorials are beautiful, and by far the best memorial proposed for the site.
abuabu no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2011, 01:37 PM   #857
Kanto
Roof height crusader
 
Kanto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: S-4, Papoose Lake
Posts: 5,925
Likes (Received): 3546

That's your opinion, please, respect mine. There's no need to throw insults at me because you disagree with me

Also it should be noted that I find the pools to be beautiful, I only strongly disagree with them being called a memorial, that's why I hate them. A fountain is a nice addition to a park, but calling it a memorial is simply sick in my opinion Memorials should be towering structures that can be seen from far. Something like 1WTC

Btw, a fountain is nice but a swimming pool is nicer. Would be awesome to have a swimming pool next to your office building
__________________
The Outbreak: A free browser online strategy game. Build up your town and compete with other towns economicaly and militarily.
http://www.the-outbreak.com/

Last edited by Kanto; August 10th, 2011 at 01:45 PM.
Kanto no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2011, 08:34 PM   #858
Dallaz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 281
Likes (Received): 167

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
That's your opinion, please, respect mine. There's no need to throw insults at me because you disagree with me

Also it should be noted that I find the pools to be beautiful, I only strongly disagree with them being called a memorial, that's why I hate them. A fountain is a nice addition to a park, but calling it a memorial is simply sick in my opinion Memorials should be towering structures that can be seen from far. Something like 1WTC

Btw, a fountain is nice but a swimming pool is nicer. Would be awesome to have a swimming pool next to your office building
There's a lot of memorials in DC that you CANNOT see from afar.

Here's the definition of memorial

commemorative object or event: something that is intended to remind people of somebody who has died or an event in which people died, e.g. a statue, speech, or ceremony.
Dallaz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2011, 09:43 PM   #859
NgelM
Two camels in a tiny car
 
NgelM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Area Metropolitana de Valencia
Posts: 2,834
Likes (Received): 66

I can't believe this is almost done. Beautiful.
__________________
Si te tumba el mar abierto y el odio te ciega, yo estaré ahí con balsas y un millón de velas.
La Vida Bohéme.
V a l e n c i a
"Valencia es infinita" Daniel De Sousa
NgelM no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2011, 09:53 PM   #860
Towards The Sun
and beyond....
 
Towards The Sun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 67
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
That's your opinion, please, respect mine. There's no need to throw insults at me because you disagree with me
You descibed the 9/11 memorial as a toilet and you want respect? You threw insults at the designers of the memorial because you disagreed with their design, yet you feel there's no need to throw insults at you? What kind of ass backward, upside down state of mind are you drowning in? Tell ya what, go down to the memorial on September 11th with a big sign displaying this so-called opinion of yours. Walk among the victim's families, the survivors, the construction workers, the NYPD and the firefighters and we'll count the seconds it takes 'til someone bashes you in your skull. Remember, you have to EARN respect. And from what I've seen, you are bone dry in that department.
Towards The Sun no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
world trade center

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu