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Old March 1st, 2016, 04:31 AM   #341
Nexis
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Some recent Amsterdam videos from Timosha21



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Old March 8th, 2016, 03:15 AM   #342
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Jan 12

Smoke screens (glass walls) are going in at De Pijp.


Hoe station De Pijp wordt gladgetrokken-5 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr | Noord/Zuidlijn Artist Impression station De Pijp (roltrap) by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr


Hoe station De Pijp wordt gladgetrokken-19 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr | Noord/Zuidlijn Artist Impression station De Pijp (perron) by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr


Hoe station De Pijp wordt gladgetrokken-12 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr

Jan 17

Entrance at Rokin looking good.

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Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post

IMG_8641 by Momo1435, on Flickr
Jan 22

At Central Station the big collums have been coated with a fire-proof substance.


De De Ruijterkade en CS krijgen glas-19 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr



Jan 25

Some clips of the testing simulator have been released.

Rokin



Noorderpark



Local TV report about it



Jan 26

Ceiling tests for the East Line renovations at Central Station. They picked the darker one.


Artist Impression Centraal Station by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr | Centraal Station-proefopstelling plafond-1 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr

Artist Impression Centraal Station by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr | Centraal Station-proefopstelling plafond-6 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr

Artist Impression Centraal Station by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr | Centraal Station-proefopstelling plafond-4 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr

Feb 2

Progress at the southern entrance building + apartments at De Pijp.



Feb 3

Wall panels at Vijzelgracht progressing steadily.


Science Fiction in station Vijzelgracht-15 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr

Feb 4

The city metro agency realeased this really cool sketch from 1991 of an underwater bus station in front of Central Station. Obviously it hasn't been built there, as that's where the new metro line now runs.



Feb 9

Connexxion (regional buses) will start a pilot test with Mercedes-Benz CapaCity L. This articulated bus of 21m long has 5 doors and maximum capacity of 191 people, that's more than a tram.



Feb 11

Nice picture of the glass sound walls being constructed in Amsterdam-Noord.



Feb 12

Forum member Mojito provided us the first picture of the new digital information screens which will be placed at tram stops across the city. (finally)

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Originally Posted by Mojito View Post
User Cobblepot spotted another one right across from the new entrance of De Pijp station.

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Originally Posted by Cobblepot View Post
2-3-2016
Station de Pijp
Feb 16

Wall panels at the northern Vijzelgracht entrance. The upper row will be back-lit, as will the letters.



Same location, facing the other direction (pic from Feb 6)



Feb 24

GVB will start testing roaming conductors and all door boarding on trams, as opposed to conductors sitting in their own booth and to only able to board at 2 doors; next to the conductor and driver.

Feb 27

More glass panels going up in the grand hall at Central Station.



Mar 1

Glass elevator shaft at Vijzelgracht is finished. Didn't know pigeons were into modernist housing.



Mar 2

Some new shots of the progress at Noord.


Busplatform Noord-10 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr | Station Noord artist impression 4 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr


Busplatform Noord-28 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr | Station Noord artist impression 1 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr


Busplatform Noord-14 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr | Station Noord artist impression 6 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr


Busplatform Noord-2 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr | Station Noord artist impression 2 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr


Busplatform Noord-18 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr | Station Noord artist impression 13 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr


Busplatform Noord-25 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr | Station Noord artist impression 3 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr

Mar 3

More and more new metro cubes have started popping up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojito View Post
As well as new signage


Nieuwe borden- proef op de som bij Amstelveenseweg-12 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr | Nieuwe borden- proef op de som bij Amstelveenseweg-5 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr

Mar 7

In two weeks total they'll have finished putting up the steel structure of the Noorderpark canopy. (live webcam here)


Station Noorderpark artist impression 02 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr | Station Noorderpark artist impression 01 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr

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Old March 8th, 2016, 07:51 PM   #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrAronymous View Post
...

Feb 9

Connexxion (regional buses) will start a pilot test with Mercedes-Benz CapaCity L. This articulated bus of 21m long has 5 doors and maximum capacity of 191 people, that's more than a tram.



...
Too bad GVB calculates tramcars capacity at 4 pass/m for standing places (although their official website doesn't specify this parameters, we can easily deduce it comparing Combinos data with similar models from other cities) while in this bus case it has been assumed the rather unusual ratio of 7,4 pass/m (see Mercedes Benz website for references).
If the fight was brought back on a common ground (6 pass/m), we would find a +19,7% in favor of the least capacious vehicle (11G type) among current GVB rolling stocks!

I really can't stand buses manufacturers/lobbyists persistent (and often fairly clumsy) tricking about their products carrying more passengers than tramcars, whereas both technical figures and common sense state the opposite. These big buses have a lot of room in TPL market for routes which patronage can be boosted (upgrading their LoS), but not to an extent where transportation demand justifies a tramway, without any need to speciously purport that buses and trams are equivalent in terms of capacity.
But, you know, in this day and age marketing is everything and technical truth has to fly out of the window, sic et simpliciter.



since 7,4 pass/m is a number I never see elsewhere and also rather impossible to reach in real world (unless those 191 people were willing to pile and squeeze themselves at maximum degree for the sake of setting a record), I highly suspect they've got it indirectly from maximum legally permissible weight at full load, without regard to whether such a crowding can really be achieved.

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Old March 8th, 2016, 08:06 PM   #344
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They need to start a project to convert the Zuidtangent to light rail, instead of buying more buses to it!
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Old March 9th, 2016, 11:44 AM   #345
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No, they shouldn't. That would make use of the infrastructure way less flexible. And more expensive, too.
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Old March 9th, 2016, 12:34 PM   #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yak79 View Post
Too bad GVB calculates tramcars capacity at 4 pass/m for standing places (although their official website doesn't specify this parameters, we can easily deduce it comparing Combinos data with similar models from other cities) while in this bus case it has been assumed the rather unusual ratio of 7,4 pass/m (see Mercedes Benz website for references).
If the fight was brought back on a common ground (6 pass/m), we would find a +19,7% in favor of the least capacious vehicle (11G type) among current GVB rolling stocks!

I really can't stand buses manufacturers/lobbyists persistent (and often fairly clumsy) tricking about their products carrying more passengers than tramcars, whereas both technical figures and common sense state the opposite. These big buses have a lot of room in TPL market for routes which patronage can be boosted (upgrading their LoS), but not to an extent where transportation demand justifies a tramway, without any need to speciously purport that buses and trams are equivalent in terms of capacity.
But, you know, in this day and age marketing is everything and technical truth has to fly out of the window, sic et simpliciter.



since 7,4 pass/m is a number I never see elsewhere and also rather impossible to reach in real world (unless those 191 people were willing to pile and squeeze themselves at maximum degree for the sake of setting a record), I highly suspect they've got it indirectly from maximum legally permissible weight at full load, without regard to whether such a crowding can really be achieved.

I understand your complains about the metric they're using... but I don't understand this prejudice about buses.
I came from a city in a poor country, which only uses buses, including a good BRT coverage with 27m bi-articulated buses (holding ~240-270 passengers).
I've to say BRT are far more flexible and most of the time more reliable/faster than trams.

To have an efficient tram operation you need far more segregation, otherwise anything can make the operation a chaos (crashes, problems on the rails, storms, etc).
With BRTs you can easily rearrange the buses, change routes, and also having express buses stopping only in the main stations make the trip much more faster for the majority of the passengers.
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Old March 9th, 2016, 07:40 PM   #347
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Seeing in which thread you usually post your messages, I guessed you're from Curitiba, a Brazilian city well known among PT experts/enthusiasts having pioneered BRT.

I don't hold any grudge or prejudice against buses, and I'm well aware that, with a true BRT scheme, it's possible to obtain the same capacity of a tram/LRT line and even a metro. However, since a single bus is per se less capacious - than a metro train, obviously, and than a tramcar, not only because tramcars can be by far longer than buses and can be coupled, but also because (due to structural layout) a standard low-floor tramcar, at equal length and crowding level, can carry more passengers than a standard low-floor bus - the only way to achieve these capacities is reducing headway.
But reducing headway under a certain threshold means that the system needs some features which make it difficult to insert into the urban structure of an European city. These physical/technical reasons, along with economic and social others, cause that BRT are less suitable* for countries with mature economies, and especially for European ones: isn't a coincidence that most of the systems here are BRT only by label, being in reality mere high-quality busway.

Furthermore, there are some inaccuracies in your statement:
  • claiming a bus (e.g. your Volvo biarticulated buses for express routes) can hold 270 passengers** has non meaning at all, if you don't specify under which “pass/m” rate or crowding level;
  • for main itineraries, consolidated urban context and European cities (where buildings tend to be fairly “permanent”) route flexibility is a rather overrated virtue, if not even a flaw (according to a TOD point of view);
  • speed and reliability depend on infrastructural and operational characteristics, and not on which mode (bus or tram) it's used; as a matter of fact, for the same line capacity - therefore, with more buses employed simultaneously - and at equal everything else, a bus-based system will be slightly less performing than a tramway;
  • the needed level of segregation depend substantially on two factors:
    - other road traffic flows and what perturbation degree they can undergo (due to both safety and fluidity concerns), things that don't change whether PT vehicles run on steel wheels or rubber tires;
    - service headway, that (for the same line capacity) is tighter in the latter case;
    so, at equal everything else, a bus-based system will need the same or even more segregation than a tramway.


* at least, such matters tend to neutralize the cost-effectiveness of BRT compared to rail transport (as you can see in Brisbane case).
** 10 passengers per meter of length, anyway, is a figure that would match better (at 6 pass/m for standing places) with a conventional metro train-set (wider, high-floor and with longitudinal seats); therefore I suspect that also in this case “270 passengers” came out from maximum permissible weight, as well, and not from a realistic crowding level.
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Old March 9th, 2016, 08:16 PM   #348
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You are ignoring that is much easier to disturb a tram line than a bus line.
That's what I meant by flexibility.

If you have a bad parked car you already can stop a whole tram line (I saw this happening more than once).

Also is far easier to add express lines than with trams, which makes the operational speed much higher with the same amount of segregation.

I said 240-270, depending on the metric you use (in Brazil it was common to measure 7p/m, I think now they lowered to 6).
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Old March 9th, 2016, 09:15 PM   #349
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tram

+comfort
+cheaper long term
+greater capacity
-unflexible
-more expensive short term

(semi-)brt

+cheaper in the short term
+flexible
+greater capacity than normal bus
-more expensive long term
-comfort

Now please post something Amsterdam-centric or continue this discussion somewhere else.
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Old March 9th, 2016, 09:30 PM   #350
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There is no need for express bus lanes when you have a dense network of trains or segregated light rail (lines 26, 5- within Amstelveen etc).

I rarely if ever see blockage of tram tracks in Amsterdam or Rotterdam (where I go more often for work reasons.

Finally, in countries where labor costs are high (such as Netherlands), the short-term cost advantages of buses are even lower.

-----

Rail vehicles are more comfortable due to the physics as well (the fact they have fixed guideway without lateral steering like road vehicles + the fact their acceleration profile is much more uniform with much lower jolts coming out of the third derivative of space)
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Old March 9th, 2016, 11:57 PM   #351
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Well, a wrongly parked car can block a bus too, just not as easily. However if you were to build a tram system today you would probably either have segregated tracks or have the tracks in the middle of a road so a wrongly parked car would block a car lane and not a tram lane.

Also in a city with a large tram system there is usually several possible routes so if there is a problem at one place the trams can use another route (just like a bus can run on another road if a road on the ordinary route is blocked).

Re capacity: IMHO it's possible to have more passengers per m2 floor space in a tram than in a bus because it's easier to stand close to other passengers with the smoother ride a tram usually has.

But this is a never ending discussion...

P.S. I bet that the capacity of those buses is far lower than of the trams in Budapest!
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Old March 10th, 2016, 01:20 AM   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
There is no need for express bus lanes when you have a dense network of trains or segregated light rail (lines 26, 5- within Amstelveen etc).
I don't understand why not, I would love to have express lines moving me to different parts of the city, train is cool, but you need more money on your card, they don't run as often and the number of train stations is very limited compared to important tram stops.

Quote:
Finally, in countries where labor costs are high (such as Netherlands), the short-term cost advantages of buses are even lower.
You need more labor to operate a bus? For maintenance? That's true, a tram can last much longer than a bus.

-----
Quote:
Rail vehicles are more comfortable due to the physics as well (the fact they have fixed guideway without lateral steering like road vehicles + the fact their acceleration profile is much more uniform with much lower jolts coming out of the third derivative of space)
Indeed, rails are more comfortable, no doubt about that.

Quote:
Well, a wrongly parked car can block a bus too, just not as easily
hmm...no, you can easily bypass a car with a bus, but bad parked is not everything, you see trams being blocked for a variety of different reasons, things that a bus could easily avoid.
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Old March 10th, 2016, 01:50 AM   #353
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The end user price for using different modes of transportation is mostly a question of politics.

In some parts of the world (for example many places in Germany) the same price applies to bus, tram, metro/underground, local and regional trains.

In other parts of the world (for example around Stockholm in Sweden) the same price applies to bus, tram, metro/underground and local trains.

----

Since a tram (or train of tram cars) can be far longer than any bus you can move more people per driver with a tram than with a bus.

----

You haven't seen the mothers of all wrongly parked cars
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Old March 10th, 2016, 01:55 AM   #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worldpassport View Post
...
Quote:
Finally, in countries where labor costs are high (such as Netherlands), the short-term cost advantages of buses are even lower.
You need more labor to operate a bus? For maintenance? That's true, a tram can last much longer than a bus.
...
Also (or rather, mainly) because a bus carries less passengers than a tram, at equal level of crowding: so, in order to move the same amount of passengers you need more buses = more drivers = more salaries. Therefore, the operating cost per offered place is higher for buses, in this respect.
In a 27 m biarticulated bus, 270 passengers are too many even for a 7 pass/m rate (at least they correspond to 8 pass/m, IMHO) and are anyway too many for a tolerable crowding level, at least in an European country. Moreover, a single tramcar (albeit longer than 27 m) can carry - quite confortably - much more than 270 passengers.

A bus carries less passengers than a tram: it's a fact, not an opinion, and if someone keeps on skipping this point (disregarding or denying it) it'll be pretty useless to pursue the debate.

And that said, I apologize to all forumers for bringing forward the OT.
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Old March 10th, 2016, 03:48 AM   #355
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The Netherlands, or more specifically the Noord-Holland province, is wealthy enough that it doesn't need to settle for sub-par bus systems because it lack of access to long-term funds for higher up-front costs.

If GVB wanted to, it could buy and use longer trams.

As for all-door boarding, it can and will reduce total stoppage times in operational schedules.
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Old March 10th, 2016, 08:33 AM   #356
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As for all-door boarding, it can and will reduce total stoppage times in operational schedules.

They will do all for boarding for the trams?
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Old March 10th, 2016, 11:41 AM   #357
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Yes, they will do a test on line 2. It's mentioned in my (long) post. They are also testing having service staff on line 5.
It will do wonders for boarding time and will lessen confusion, but I fear we will see a rise in fare evasion.

Secondly, GVB is not that rich at all, they have had their budget cut in half in recent years (if nor more), but luckily the ov-chipkaart data ans gates + company restructuring provided them with more revenue and a profit
Also, GVB does't own the trams or metros, the city does. So while the city (region) can buy new trams, which they will do this years, you can't buy new longer vehicles for all lines because of infrastructural space constraints in the city center. Think Central Station, Rembrandtplein, Leidsestraat, etc.
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Old March 10th, 2016, 01:16 PM   #358
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When talking about fare evation you must also consider the cost savings both operational and for the passengers (count each commute minute as a minute that's lost and could otherwise been used to doing paid work).

If you don't demand travelcard users to validate their card you also give paying travelers a better experience.
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Old March 10th, 2016, 02:08 PM   #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiaM View Post
When talking about fare evation you must also consider the cost savings both operational and for the passengers (count each commute minute as a minute that's lost and could otherwise been used to doing paid work).

If you don't demand travelcard users to validate their card you also give paying travelers a better experience.
The whole fare payment system of Publix transportation in Netherlands is based on RFID check in and out. I dont envision that changing anytime soon.
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Old March 10th, 2016, 03:07 PM   #360
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Yes, but checking in and out doesn't deduct any money if you have a day/week/month/year (or whichever) subscription. It just adds to the statistics and give you a validation that you are actually allowed to use the bus/tram/train.

(P.S. we a have check in / check out RFID system here in Gothenburg, and AFAIK you cannot get in any trouble if you have a day/three day/month/three month/year subscription and don't check in/out on a wechicle your subscription is valid for travel on).
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