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Old March 10th, 2016, 06:27 PM   #361
worldpassport
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Wikipedia has a more fair comparison between BRTxLRT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_ra..._metro_systems

Other link: http://www.yutong.com/english/produc...09/14613.shtml

One good thing to notice is that you can have headways as low as 10s with buses, while you need at least 1m for trams.
Of course, it's far from Amsterdam reality, there's no need of 1m headways.

Other thing to notice is that to build a rail infrastructure is very expensive, mostly of the poor countries don't have this money.

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For the same level of ridership, higher labor costs in the US relative to in developing countries will tend to encourage US transit operators to use fewer larger vehicles and operate them at lower frequencies in order to minimize the number of drivers needed. This comes at a hidden cost to passengers who experience lower frequency and longer waiting times.
The 10m-15m headway of the metro lines here can be frustrating when you need to change lines (i.e: I could go from my home to the centrum using 2 metro lines, but I would spend half of the travel time waiting for trains)
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Old March 10th, 2016, 09:16 PM   #362
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An you really account as a more fair comparison A) a Wikipedia paragraph that talks mostly about route capacity and cites almost exclusively a well known BRT advocates group (Institute for Transportation and Development Policy) and B) the website of a bus manufacturer?

Plus, I was talking about vehicle capacity, and not route overall capacity: I started my post stating that a BRT can reach even the capacity of a metro/heavy rail line (30˙000 pass/h per direction and more), but:
- a 60'' headway can still coexist (in exclusive lanes) with the rest of city traffic, despite this being quite a challenge;
- a 10'' headway needs a completely segregated busway and that, combined with the lack of road space which distinguishes European cities (and similar ones), could likely mean elevated infrastructures and metro-esque kilometric costs (which is what happened in Brisbane, for instance).

Anyway, construction and operating costs (as well as other parameters) vary significantly depending on the Country, so it's impossible to make a comparison which is valid regardless where the city is.
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Old March 11th, 2016, 05:26 PM   #363
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Imagine how much the buses, bus maintenance and bus drivers' salaries would cost with a bus every 10 seconds :P
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Old March 11th, 2016, 05:51 PM   #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Imagine how much the buses, bus maintenance and bus drivers' salaries would cost with a bus every 10 seconds :P
Moreover, a 10-second headway implies bunching, 10s is not enough for a bus to stop, move passengers in/out, and depart.

The standard measurement of intervals is the time between two identical operations or states of some system, e.g., train opens door at station till second train opens door at station.

You can't have 10s intervals, in any feasible way, unless each bus weren't even coming to a complete stop.

Some BRT brochures use misleading measurements such as the time between one bus departing a stop and the next one arriving at it and starting to park. That is not apples-to-apples; busy subway lines can have these short times between platform occupancy as well (not 10s, but 20s is feasible with ERTMS systems).

Now if people are referring to express services and calculating their frequency by all intermediate stations where they don't stop, they are doing it wrong. In any case, a busway where one bus passed each 10s on express-local lanes would be, essentially, a highway for all purpose: 4 lanes, full grade segregation. This is very expensive to build and, then costs are not really much lower than a heavy rail line operating with 150m-long trains... Building such busways in Amsterdam would require very expensive eminent domain and demolition as well - I doubt it would be ever approved. If you go for some underground busway, then a subway is definitively less expensive (smaller tunnel section, tight fighting, simpler fire suppression systems etc)
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Old March 11th, 2016, 10:54 PM   #365
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10s headways would in theory maybe possible with multiple lane bus stops and some kind of automatic drive that phases in the buses after eachother when they leave the stop.

Now we are talking infrastructure that's so expenive that you might aswell give each traveller an helicopter
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Old March 11th, 2016, 11:00 PM   #366
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Plus you are imagining a city where inhabitants do nothing else than desperately commute from one corner to another all day long.
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Old March 12th, 2016, 12:34 AM   #367
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Now even the off topic conversation is going off topic.
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Old March 12th, 2016, 12:50 PM   #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Plus you are imagining a city where inhabitants do nothing else than desperately commute from one corner to another all day long.

Welcome to Sao Paulo.

I would love to see real data about all those costs.
Of course if you already have all the rails doesn't make sense to demolish everything to build segregated bus lanes, but I doubt that it'll be feasible for a poor country to build all those from the ground.
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Old March 12th, 2016, 01:47 PM   #369
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Old March 13th, 2016, 02:12 PM   #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worldpassport View Post
Welcome to Sao Paulo.

I would love to see real data about all those costs.
Of course if you already have all the rails doesn't make sense to demolish everything to build segregated bus lanes, but I doubt that it'll be feasible for a poor country to build all those from the ground.
First of all we are in Amsterdam thread and should concentrate on needs and affordability in that city. Amsterdam could certainly afford to think longer term.

As for Sao Paulo in a city that big heavy metro together with suburban rail is the only true solution of public transport for capacity reasons. Everything else is only half solutions at best and probably considered only because there is not enough money to build a proper system. Just look at all the Asian megacities. They build metro's and not light rail or rapid bus lines.
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Old March 17th, 2016, 01:27 AM   #371
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Today the first test runs took place on the northern part (above ground) of the North/South metro line. In the upcoming 7 weeks the signalling & control will be tested on the line.



The train (weekdays between 09:00 and 17:00 CET) can be followed on 2 webcams:
http://wijnemenjemee.nl/webcam-noord
http://wijnemenjemee.nl/webcam-noorderpark
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Old April 1st, 2016, 06:20 PM   #372
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Old April 1st, 2016, 11:21 PM   #373
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Old April 12th, 2016, 02:32 PM   #374
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When the new M5 trains were introduced, the separate number sign was used to display the line number this way:


GVB - Alstom Metropolis M5, 109-110, testrit, Verrijn Stuartweg (Amsterdam Zuidoost) by FLJ | Public Transport and Aviation Photography, on Flickr

Later the trains showed the line number with the "M":



Now the number signs are out of service and the line number is displayed on the destination sign:


GVB M5 by uzusio, on Flickr

Does anybody know the reason for this?

I also found a train that shows "M2" on the number sign (minute 4:14):

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Old April 12th, 2016, 03:57 PM   #375
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The system is malfunctioning. Supposedly they're still trying to fix it. I hope they'll just replace them LED screens.
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Old April 24th, 2016, 04:43 PM   #376
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8 March

6 Destination arrival displays have been appearing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojito View Post
24 March

2012 vs. 2016


Zuid╗Vijzelgracht


Nice shot from down below at Central Station.


27 March

Placing the glass walls at Central Station.


29 March

Ventillation shaft at Vijzelgracht.

luchtverfrissers op station Vijzelgracht-13 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr

1 April

Renovation of the East Line stations has started.

5 April

Works at Noord progressing (webcam here);

Station hall


Bike parking


Access to bus platform


Park and Ride


11 April

Some pics by Jannes Linders.

1 1

2

3 3

4

3 2

1=Europaplein
2=Central Station
3=De Pijp
4=Vijzelgracht

The digging of the tunnel connection between the 2 warehouses and Rokin ticket hall is well underway. (webcam here)


12 April

First signage going in at Central Station.


15 April

At Central Station the temporary wooden scaffolding has been removed and workers have installed a glass wall that will seperate the upward and downward movements. They've also been working on the ceiling, standing on a platform right on top of the new escalators which will lead to the big hall at platform level.

Doorkijkje van metrohal CS naar Noord-Zuidlijn-3 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr


Doorkijkje van metrohal CS naar Noord-Zuidlijn-9 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr

The northern entrance and platforms have progressed as well.



New column covering




19 April

New totems with screens are appearing at some bus/tram stops. Design seems not optimal and it's not sure why these would be used instead of the other ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojito View Post
20 April

Testing in full swing (80km/h) on the above-ground segment in Amsterdam-Noord.

(Noorderpark webcam here)


Met bijna 80 km per uur op de Noord-Zuidlijn-14 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr


Met bijna 80 km per uur op de Noord-Zuidlijn-5 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr


Met bijna 80 km per uur op de Noord-Zuidlijn-1 by NoordZuidlijn NoordZuidlijn, on Flickr



360░


21 April

Stairs at Noord


22 April

First metro cubes at a new station. Vijzelgracht in this case.


De Pijp (vertical beam) progress
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Old April 25th, 2016, 03:37 PM   #377
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Thanks for the pics.

I'm also ambivalent about the new totems. It could have been better considering it's 2016... They could also use the opportunity to create free Wi-Fi spots from every totem.
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Old April 25th, 2016, 05:22 PM   #378
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But will public wifi fulfill a purpose in the future? EU regulations will soon forbid roaming fees for mobile data, thus visitors within the EU won't have much use for public wifi. It should be easier for visitors from outside the EU to get a local SIM card suitable for shorter term visits. (Today it seems to be possible to buy a pay as you go SIM card in most countries but the information only targets long time users). Locals would probably be better off with lower mobile data rates.

Of course there are cases where there is so many users that wifi can have an overall performance advantage but that is for example a moving train in rural areas where mobile capacity is rather low or for example places where there are so many users that wifi can give more capacity than the smallest cells of a regular mobile network.

The totems seem to have place for two monitors and the one pictures only has one. Perhaps stops with more lines/traffic would have two monitors?

IMHO the most "time-critical" information should use larger letters to be visible from a longer distance. That way you can walk calmly if it's 8 minutes to the next departure but you can rush to be in time if the next departure is in 2 minuters.
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Old April 25th, 2016, 06:52 PM   #379
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The screen layout is not developed for this but directly copied from screens at local/regional bus stations. And as far as I know the whole thing is 1 screen. Let's just hope GVB is working on it. I mean it doesn't even follow GVB or R-net design guidelines. GVB needs to majorly upgrade all their digital services anyway (and their own brand identity while they're at it). It's either outdated or just horribly designed.
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Old April 26th, 2016, 01:03 AM   #380
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They just changed the totems and now they're changing it again?

I like the new ones showing minutes instead of full time, but this one is kind of weird, and I didn't get what the blue blocks mean (it says "Stop" in the column header?).
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