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Old January 3rd, 2009, 05:10 PM   #201
Slagathor
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Originally Posted by Filip7370 View Post
That's stipid London will regret that, they even don't know how fast.
No, actually, many parts of London are notoriously unsuitable for bendy buses. We face a similar situation in many of our cities in the Netherlands (Amsterdam, the Hague). Bendies are a hassle to us. Good riddance.
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 07:42 PM   #202
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No, actually, many parts of London are notoriously unsuitable for bendy buses. We face a similar situation in many of our cities in the Netherlands (Amsterdam, the Hague). Bendies are a hassle to us. Good riddance.
But they're not used on the roads of London where they are very unsuitable, in general.
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 08:56 PM   #203
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It still limits the flexibility and efficiency of the fleet in total.
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 09:14 PM   #204
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Looking at it from a vantage point from over here, I would think that the attractiveness of double-deck buses (including Routemasters) is that they carry the same number of people as articulated 'bendy' buses, while taking up much less of the very finite and valuable amount of space that is available on central London's streets. It will be interesting to see how well the new ones work out.

That said, and I regret that I don't have any images of it offhand, but there is a company that operates an original Routemaster for local charters here in the Appleton-Green Bay, WI area and has for at least the past 30 years. I most recently saw it running fan shuttles to and from last Sunday's Lions @ Packers game in Green Bay.

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Old January 4th, 2009, 10:05 AM   #205
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Articulated buses have a higher capacity than either Double Deckers or 'Routemasters'.

If people say 'fare evasion' is rife on articulated buses, unless there is a ticket inspector on-board, they have to bear in mind that every routemaster will need to have one, or fare evasion will be just as rife.

The worst thing about these new routmasters is the cost.... well over £100,000,000 (cant remember the exact cost).
It would amply cover the remaining cost for a bridge project over the Thames, which was canceled due to a 'lack of funds'.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 12:57 PM   #206
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It still limits the flexibility and efficiency of the fleet in total.
All buses in London are contracted out to private companies. As such most buses are dedicated to a single route or in some cases a group of routes. So this argument is totaly moot because already buses do not move around.

Bottom line is most of the bendie routes, the red arrows in particular were and are ideally suited to the artics. They have been operating quite ok for some years, so arguments about road space and tighness are also moot. Why? Well clearly these buses have been running on these roads already. Now if you are talking about converting some new routes to bendies then maybe.

Oh MTW the issue with road width space is more to do with turning circle than bendie or not. You will find that where ever a long wheel base DD can run and artic can run the same route without problem. Provided the operator knows how to drive properly, something which I notice is lacking in London.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 01:07 PM   #207
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Looking at it from a vantage point from over here, I would think that the attractiveness of double-deck buses (including Routemasters) is that they carry the same number of people as articulated 'bendy' buses, while taking up much less of the very finite and valuable amount of space that is available on central London's streets. It will be interesting to see how well the new ones work out.

Mike
It isn't as simple as that. DD's are slower to load and unload, so you need to factor that in.

Also many of the artic routes in London were introduced for their standing space (Red arrows for example) so that gives a much greater overall carrying capacity. Sure passenger comfort is traded (which is where I think the London hatred of these buses comes from) but on these routes it is only to be expected.

Bear in mind that London DD's standing is not allowed on the top deck, so that leaves just the lower deck, which can and does get full of standee's. Then what happens is people from upstairs want to get off need to fight their way through the standee's which futher slows unloading. More so in London where London buses insist the stairs are to be located directly behind the driver, so on most buses the exit door doesn't line up with the stairs. Some older buses have the more logical solution of the exit door being oposite the base of the stairs. The buses on routes 8 and 15 have the doors futher forward to facilitate this easier exit.

DD's have a place for sure, but for me they are on the longer thinner routes, not shorter inner city operations where passengers are constantly getting n and off. DD's come into their own when you want to gurantee a seat for everyone. Artics are when you want to get people from A to B as quickly as possible.

OT but STA (the government bus operator) in Sydney has looked at re-introducing DD's, but have clearly decided against that for the time being with a recent order for 150 new artics. One of the private operators wants to introduce them on their long North Western suburbs to city express routes. I for one agree with the STA's decision on the artics for their inner city operations, but also agree that the DD's are the way to go for the long distance express operations.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 01:10 PM   #208
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Articulated buses have a higher capacity than either Double Deckers or 'Routemasters'.

If people say 'fare evasion' is rife on articulated buses, unless there is a ticket inspector on-board, they have to bear in mind that every routemaster will need to have one, or fare evasion will be just as rife.

The worst thing about these new routmasters is the cost.... well over £100,000,000 (cant remember the exact cost).
It would amply cover the remaining cost for a bridge project over the Thames, which was canceled due to a 'lack of funds'.
Too right about the fare evasion issue and the need for an inspector on these new buses. Clearly with the drivers cab arrangement the driver won't check like they do on current DD designs.

Not sure about the cost, but it will be higher than existing models, through the simple fact that there will be no competition from builders and that the model will be London centric. There is also the end of contract issue, at present when a London buses gets old, the company re-tenders for new buses and sends the old ones to the country. With this new bus you won't see that happening.

With the builders competition it is possible that one or more of the existing big 3 UK builders will go bust without London orders like they do now. That is not a good for the industry.
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Old January 5th, 2009, 11:10 AM   #209
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I have just come back from London, and I was rather surprised of the passiveness of bus drivers to check whether the tickets were valid or not. I had a 3 day pass, that I am sure I could still use today, as no bus driver even looked at it... Therefore, fare evasion, is rather easy...

Whose fault is it? Drivers are there to drive... Conductors to sell tickets... of course, in the days we live, they have to minimise costs...

In most cities, there are no conductors, and drivers sell tickets too... it slows the moving of the buses, but fare evasion is more controlled... (There will also be a chance to dodge the fares... but that is another subject).
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Old January 5th, 2009, 03:34 PM   #210
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I have just come back from London, and I was rather surprised of the passiveness of bus drivers to check whether the tickets were valid or not. I had a 3 day pass, that I am sure I could still use today, as no bus driver even looked at it... Therefore, fare evasion, is rather easy...

Whose fault is it? Drivers are there to drive... Conductors to sell tickets... of course, in the days we live, they have to minimise costs...

In most cities, there are no conductors, and drivers sell tickets too... it slows the moving of the buses, but fare evasion is more controlled... (There will also be a chance to dodge the fares... but that is another subject).
I've noticed this too. Paper tickets are becoming more and more rare so I suppose that once everything is electronic this won't be a problem anymore. But yes, many bus drivers seem to hardly look at your ticket when you show them a paper one.
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Old January 5th, 2009, 04:47 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Chusanch View Post
I have just come back from London, and I was rather surprised of the passiveness of bus drivers to check whether the tickets were valid or not. I had a 3 day pass, that I am sure I could still use today, as no bus driver even looked at it... Therefore, fare evasion, is rather easy...

Whose fault is it? Drivers are there to drive... Conductors to sell tickets... of course, in the days we live, they have to minimise costs...

In most cities, there are no conductors, and drivers sell tickets too... it slows the moving of the buses, but fare evasion is more controlled... (There will also be a chance to dodge the fares... but that is another subject).
You'd think that, but they are on the ball, in my school days we used to try it all the time, but they caught you 9/10 times!
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Old January 5th, 2009, 05:19 PM   #212
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Believe me... they didn't even bother to look at it... But I will believe what you say...
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Old January 5th, 2009, 06:57 PM   #213
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Believe me... they didn't even bother to look at it... But I will believe what you say...
They don't. Same too when people put the oyster card to the machine and it has a problem or no credit, they don't stop or challenge people.
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Old June 13th, 2010, 06:52 AM   #214
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LONDON | Buses

























































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Old June 13th, 2010, 11:24 PM   #215
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London's updated Routemaster buses:

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Old July 11th, 2010, 12:07 AM   #216
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Old July 11th, 2010, 08:38 PM   #217
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London's updated Routemaster buses:

WOOOAAAH!!! Nice one!
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Old July 11th, 2010, 11:43 PM   #218
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Why lower the ceiling over a stairwell
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Old July 26th, 2010, 07:17 PM   #219
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Old July 27th, 2010, 03:46 PM   #220
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Please can someone explain the purpose of the rail protruding from the upper-deck at the front of the bus?
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