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Old December 14th, 2011, 03:02 AM   #261
Gag Halfrunt
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Many believed that London's "junk" is better than any of the leading brand domestic buses in China...
Arriva have sent ex-London articulated Citaros to Arriva Malta, which also has a fleet of King Longs.
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Old December 15th, 2011, 12:04 AM   #262
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The ditching of Mercedes Benz Citaro articulated buses is hotly debated even on the Chinese bus forum bbs.52bus.com. Many believed that London's "junk" is better than any of the leading brand domestic buses in China, and sugested that although these buse are right hand driving and left hand loading, opposite to China's traffic rule, we should still take over all these buses and run them on central loading (left hand loading) BRT systems

http://bbs.52bus.com/forum.php?mod=v...extra=page%3D1
That place can be really schizophrenic at times. Alright it's different people putting forward different opinions at different times but still
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Old December 16th, 2011, 03:11 AM   #263
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Old December 16th, 2011, 03:14 AM   #264
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Old December 16th, 2011, 03:16 AM   #265
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not all London
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Old December 16th, 2011, 03:18 AM   #266
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Old December 16th, 2011, 03:21 AM   #267
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quarter- ... I never knew bus turntables existed
I'm really impressed by British heritage
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Old December 16th, 2011, 03:23 AM   #268
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Old December 16th, 2011, 03:24 AM   #269
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Old December 16th, 2011, 03:30 AM   #270
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Old December 17th, 2011, 11:12 PM   #271
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(Autoblog, 2010)
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Old December 18th, 2011, 07:42 PM   #272
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"...ponsing around,..." -- 2'23"

I (really) like it although the upper deck lighting seems dingy. What's the tie-up (I'm imagining) with EU regulation per hopping off?
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Old December 19th, 2011, 11:52 PM   #273
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It's really nice, and I think worth the money. They can sell many miniatures to tourists, and to the Londoners themselves of-course. As a city in crisis you have to hold on to your qualities. And the busses are a strong icon of London. Many cities wish they would have an icon like that!
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Old December 21st, 2011, 11:58 AM   #274
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It's really nice, and I think worth the money. They can sell many miniatures to tourists, and to the Londoners themselves of-course. As a city in crisis you have to hold on to your qualities. And the busses are a strong icon of London. Many cities wish they would have an icon like that!
Apart from fake nostalgic character what does the BorisMaster have over other double deck buses running in London? Answer is nothing, so not really worth the 20% higher cost, nor the many millions in development that for reasons unknown are not being accounted for in the unit cost of this bus.
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Old December 21st, 2011, 01:41 PM   #275
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The old and the new melted together.

The Routemaster is open in the back so dashes to catch the bus will be possible again but the thing I like most is the windowed stair and the unedged back!

Led lights complete the design!

About the dingy lighting in the upper deck I think it's good: I love suffused light!
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Old December 21st, 2011, 04:38 PM   #276
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Apart from fake nostalgic character what does the BorisMaster have over other double deck buses running in London? Answer is nothing,
It has a more distinct design which will catch tourist attention! And as Fabri said above it has the hop on platform which is typical London. Yes it is somehow nostalgic but tourists love nostalgic stuff, and people in England as well! And this is Nostalgia in a modern fashion which is much better then pure Nostalgia!

So, the answer is far from nothing! Only 20% higher cost? That's worth it by far!
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Old December 21st, 2011, 08:03 PM   #277
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I (really) like it although the upper deck lighting seems dingy. What's the tie-up (I'm imagining) with EU regulation per hopping off?
None as far as I know. The EU has legislation on the safety of vehicles in the event of a crash (this concerns things like crash tests but also, for instance, the obligation to wear a seat belt in your car) as well as a set of detailed rules on cargo traffic by road (lorries, in essence, which can be very dangerous of course).
With the aim of harmonizing legislation across the EU, there is also a set of "best practice guidelines" which are not mandatory but countries can look to them for an example.

I would be very surprised to discover the EU actually drafted rules about buses driving around with closed doors. But you're welcome to prove me wrong with a search:

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_s...y/index_en.htm
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Old December 21st, 2011, 09:56 PM   #278
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Oh ... I understood that the decommissioning of the last fleet of Routemasters came about because of EU regulations prohibiting on-board hop-on-hop-off bus platforms (doors), like Paris itself used to have (ages ago)
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Old December 22nd, 2011, 12:51 AM   #279
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Oh ... I understood that the decommissioning of the last fleet of Routemasters came about because of EU regulations prohibiting on-board hop-on-hop-off bus platforms (doors), like Paris itself used to have (ages ago)
That's one of many many Euromyths in popular circulation in the United Kingdom. However, much like the commonly held beliefs that there is EU legislation on the curves of bananas, or that the EU is responsible for the swiftly multiplying high-visibility jackets, it's false.

The House of Commons Library has produced a detailed report showing that fewer than 7 per cent of UK primary legislation comes from Europe.

If there are any rules that prohibit a bus with an open door, they're likely to be British. Since I don't have detailed knowledge on the UK specific legislation, I can't really make an intelligent statement about that.
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Old December 22nd, 2011, 12:58 PM   #280
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The routemasters were scrapped because of the Disability Discrimination Act which requires that all buses be accessible to wheelchairs by 2017. I think that the industry press was suggesting that there might be an issue with having an open platform in terms of safety legislation; the solution being two man operation with the rear platform being supervised, and closed off at quiet times since it will have a door. I am not aware that the EU has been 'implicated' in any of this.

Increased costs to do with this bus come not only from the cost of developing it and two man operation, but also from the fact that there is an acknowledged problem with the ownership of these vehicles. Operators don't want to buy them because it wouldn't be feasible for them to use them outside of London (TfL contracts often specify new buses, operators eventually cascade older ones to divisions elsewhere in the country), so the only solutions are either to transfer them to a leasing company, or extend operators' contracts, or accept that operators' prices will be higher. Whichever way, the contracts will cost TfL more.

Add to this Boris' insistence on getting rid of the bendies at the same time (the New Bus for London will not necessarily exist in the same quantity as these or be used on the same routes, not sure how much has been decided), which has led to much higher vehicle requirements on old bendy routes and ridiculously high frequencies (every 2 minutes in some cases). And all the consequent problems of bunching and long dwell times at stops with boarding through one door instead of three...
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