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Old December 22nd, 2011, 01:23 PM   #281
Slagathor
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The routemasters were scrapped because of the Disability Discrimination Act which requires that all buses be accessible to wheelchairs by 2017. I think that the industry press was suggesting that there might be an issue with having an open platform in terms of safety legislation; the solution being two man operation with the rear platform being supervised, and closed off at quiet times since it will have a door. I am not aware that the EU has been 'implicated' in any of this.
I believe The Times ran an article along those lines and I would look it up for you but their archives have sadly disappeared behind lock and chain.

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Increased costs to do with this bus come not only from the cost of developing it and two man operation, but also from the fact that there is an acknowledged problem with the ownership of these vehicles. Operators don't want to buy them because it wouldn't be feasible for them to use them outside of London (TfL contracts often specify new buses, operators eventually cascade older ones to divisions elsewhere in the country), so the only solutions are either to transfer them to a leasing company, or extend operators' contracts, or accept that operators' prices will be higher. Whichever way, the contracts will cost TfL more.
That sounds problematic indeed...

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Add to this Boris' insistence on getting rid of the bendies at the same time (the New Bus for London will not necessarily exist in the same quantity as these or be used on the same routes, not sure how much has been decided), which has led to much higher vehicle requirements on old bendy routes and ridiculously high frequencies (every 2 minutes in some cases). And all the consequent problems of bunching and long dwell times at stops with boarding through one door instead of three...
What sort of quantities are we looking at eventually anyway? Considering the higher costs, one might assume the quantity will be limited to just a handful of these buses to serve as icons with 'regular' double deckers making up the bulk of the fleet..?
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Old December 23rd, 2011, 03:23 PM   #282
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Higher capital costs, but lower energy costs than even its most efficient hybrid competitor. Likely to become the most common bus in London - thats the plan afaik.
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Old December 23rd, 2011, 10:48 PM   #283
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Higher capital costs, but lower energy costs than even its most efficient hybrid competitor. Likely to become the most common bus in London - thats the plan afaik.
It is not the plan and has never been the plan. As for it's hybrid competitors unless I am mistaken under the body is the exact same hybrid system that Wrightbus uses on their integral Gemini body.

It will be a niche bus, simply because there are 5 other types of DD's that are more than suitable for London. The industry cannot afford to have a common bus provided by 1 (already busy) body builder.

Bottom line is this bus is a vanity project of Boris tied in with his pet hate of the articulated buses that he has now seen off the streets of London. The city doesn't need their own bus, and things like the open rear platform will not work well in this modern day and age, moreso as the 'conductor' will not be undertaking any revenue checks and when there is no conductor boarding will still be by all doors. Which if I am not mistaken is the main reason why Boris and co said the artics were not suited to London's streets.
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Old December 24th, 2011, 07:36 AM   #284
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Old December 24th, 2011, 07:32 PM   #285
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Old December 24th, 2011, 07:49 PM   #286
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It is not the plan and has never been the plan. As for it's hybrid competitors unless I am mistaken under the body is the exact same hybrid system that Wrightbus uses on their integral Gemini body.

It will be a niche bus, simply because there are 5 other types of DD's that are more than suitable for London. The industry cannot afford to have a common bus provided by 1 (already busy) body builder.

Bottom line is this bus is a vanity project of Boris tied in with his pet hate of the articulated buses that he has now seen off the streets of London. The city doesn't need their own bus, and things like the open rear platform will not work well in this modern day and age, moreso as the 'conductor' will not be undertaking any revenue checks and when there is no conductor boarding will still be by all doors. Which if I am not mistaken is the main reason why Boris and co said the artics were not suited to London's streets.
Why won't hop on and off work in this day and age. You don't know that, you just presume it.

The tfl site just says the conductor will not be collecting cash fares.

The bus may indeed be a niche bus but no more than a bendy bus. At the end of the day they are both three door buses, if an operator can use find a use for a bendy I'm sure they can use second hand hybrids. If more and more cities have tougher air standard restrictions second hand hybrids might just be the thing.
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Old December 24th, 2011, 10:48 PM   #287
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Why won't hop on and off work in this day and age. You don't know that, you just presume it.

The tfl site just says the conductor will not be collecting cash fares.

The bus may indeed be a niche bus but no more than a bendy bus. At the end of the day they are both three door buses, if an operator can use find a use for a bendy I'm sure they can use second hand hybrids. If more and more cities have tougher air standard restrictions second hand hybrids might just be the thing.
Your right I presume. I presume that come the first accident open boarding will be stopped. I also presume by the fact that the conductor won't be collecting fares that their role will be that of a pseudo security guard standing on or near the open platform trying to prevent people from having an accident.

As for comparisons to artics, I reckon this bus will be even more niche than them. At least with the artics they had a clearly defined purpose, the Borismaster is nothing but a vanity project to make Boris appear as if he is doing something. If he had of put the money this has and will cost into standard buses he would have been doing something but no one would notice.
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Old December 25th, 2011, 01:17 AM   #288
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Ok, looks like the eventual design does have three doors with boarding through all. My earlier mention of doors and other things was in the context of the general problems of getting rid of bendies though, which have been replaced with conventional double deckers. These will presumably, as already mentioned, continue to be the mainstay of new deliveries.
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Old December 31st, 2011, 10:30 PM   #289
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Here are two what I like to call enantiomeric Route Master by Yutong Coach



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Old January 1st, 2012, 01:12 PM   #290
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The front overhang seems a bit long.
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Old January 3rd, 2012, 10:55 AM   #291
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Here are two what I like to call enantiomeric Route Master by Yutong Coach



So ugly
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Old January 5th, 2012, 10:32 PM   #292
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The front overhang seems a bit long.
Its radiator grill strikes me out of place.



Weren't London's doubledeckers after the RM fleet(s) equipped with two staircases?
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Old January 5th, 2012, 11:41 PM   #293
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Its radiator grill strikes me out of place.



Weren't London's doubledeckers after the RM fleet(s) equipped with two staircases?
Dual-staircase double deckers in the UK have been extremely rare. The only examples I can think of are the 3 Volvo Alisas.
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Old February 6th, 2012, 02:34 AM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HCT Group
HCT Group is announced as preferred partner for the delivery of Guernsey’s bus services

HCT Group is delighted to announce that it has been chosen to be the preferred partner for the provision of bus services in Guernsey. Subject to negotiations that are currently underway, CT Plus (part of HCT Group) will commence operating from 1 April 2012. The contract will be for the operation of all bus services on the island, including school buses.

HCT Group is an established bus operator and one of the UK’s most successful social enterprises. It runs an extensive portfolio of commercial contracts from its eleven UK depots, including ten red London bus routes, Park and Ride services, and NHS staff transport. It also has particular expertise in school transport, It has been delivering school bus services in Leeds and Wakefield since 2005 for West Yorkshire Metro. It has also been providing transport for young people with special educational needs in various London Boroughs since 2004.
Press release continues Here
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Old February 6th, 2012, 03:30 AM   #295
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Love it!
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Old March 2nd, 2012, 12:39 AM   #296
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Look nice but does london need to spend £1.6million on a bus ? ( this is what I was told by a friend about the cost of buses in the capital)

Boris does seem to spend money at eye watering pace.
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Old March 3rd, 2012, 08:55 AM   #297
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Look nice but does london need to spend £1.6million on a bus ? ( this is what I was told by a friend about the cost of buses in the capital)

Boris does seem to spend money at eye watering pace.
Too right, a lot of money for a bus that offers very little over the existing buses. Now if the new bus actually offered anything that will make a difference on the street it may well be worthwhile, but to doesn't so is nothing more than a vanity project for Boris which = a waste of dosh.
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Old March 3rd, 2012, 08:13 PM   #298
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£1.6million on a bus
a.k.a. "2 500 000 USD", which just about made my jaw drop to the floor when listening to American public radio's news announcement of the price tag to the latest RM
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Old March 4th, 2012, 07:03 AM   #299
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a.k.a. "2 500 000 USD", which just about made my jaw drop to the floor when listening to American public radio's news announcement of the price tag to the latest RM
In fareness what they have done is taken the development cost of the project and divided it by 8, being the number of prototypes. Now whilst that figure is high if many are built then the per unit cost will come down significantly. It's like any project if you cost the development over a small number of units the unit cost will be high, when in reality the development costs should be recouped over the life of the model which reduces said cost per unit. The problem however is no one knows how many will ever be built, and of course in this case TfL have paid for the development and not Wrightbus.

That being said it is still a waste as there are already 5 manufacturers that have double deck designs (including Wright with their quite attractive Gemini II model) that are more than suitible for use in London, two of which (including the Gemini) have hybrid models too.

So really there was no need what so ever to develop a vanity bus specifically for London, indeed if this was the only model London buys it puts at risk the whole UK double deck bus market.

Last edited by ajw373; March 4th, 2012 at 07:16 AM.
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Old March 4th, 2012, 10:14 PM   #300
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How about plugging images of each of the five double-deckers you've mentioned?
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