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Old June 15th, 2010, 03:27 PM   #1
odlum833
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CORK | Páirc uí Chaoimh Redevelopment (45,000) | Completed

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Green light for Pairc Ui Chaoimh overhaul as city agrees land sale



By Colm Keys

Tuesday June 15 2010

The crumbling old bowl that is Pairc Ui Chaoimh has been cleared for a major overhaul.

Cork City Council voted by 17-11 yesterday to back GAA plans to buy six extra acres from City Hall to expand their development and attach a centre of excellence, with an all-weather facility, at the venue close to the city centre.

Without the extra land, Cork GAA would not have pressed ahead with their ambitious plans.

Last week, the County Manager Joe Gavin indicated that he would be opposed to giving the GAA all of the land they were seeking because he feared the impact it would have on the wider development of the docklands and Leeside area.

Hotels, offices and apartments are all planned in a major regeneration of the area.

Pairc Ui Chaoimh is in dire need of an overhaul. At present, it can house 43,000 but the plan is to be able to seat 50,000.

The redevelopment could cost in the region of €50m.

"We're very pleased with the decision. The key for us was to have everything under the one roof," said Cork chairman Jerry O'Sullivan. "We can start negotiations with the City now for the land. Then we'll enter the planning negotiations. All going well, we'd hope to have phase one completed within two years."

During reconstruction, Pairc Ui Chaoimh will be closed to big matches, but O'Sullivan envisages a situation where it will remain open for local games.

- Colm Keys

Irish Independent

I will find some images....
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Old June 15th, 2010, 05:28 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by odlum833 View Post
I will find some images....
I made a thread in the stadiums section (completed) a few months back for the stadium, can someone move it to the under construction?

i thought there was plans to build a 60,000??

munster is going to have some list of stadiums now, its such a pity that irelands national stadium (aviva) is going to be joint 5th biggest in the country!

1- croke park 82,500
2- Semple Stadium 55,600
3- Gaelic Grounds 50,000
4- Pairc Ui Caoimh 50,000
5- Aviva Stadium 50,000
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Old June 16th, 2010, 02:31 AM   #3
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True its a pity that it has such a low capacity but it's of a vastly greater standard than those that share the same capacity as it, gaelic grounds and pairc ui chaoimh will both have large areas of terracing and little or no corporate facilities, Lansdowne is excellent in every respect other than its overall capacity
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Old June 16th, 2010, 05:19 AM   #4
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True if Aviva had been moved to another site, instead of wedged into Landsdowne it could easily have been 60k seater. And at least it would fill all those seats many times each year, unlike most of the provincial stadia!

Back onto the topic of Pairc ui Chaoimh, its great news that it will be developed. However, I would add the proviso, that its all dependent on weather the GAA do it on the cheap. For example, Croke Park (apart from hill 16) is great, but, some of the "new" provincial grounds are little more then concrete terraces that passed for stadiums 50 years ago. I would cite the example of the redeveloped Gaelic Grounds in Limerick, despite significant investment they are dire. Especially, compared to Thomond Park.

I am just worried that €50 million would build an amazing 10k seater....but 50k is stretching it!

C
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Old June 16th, 2010, 01:57 PM   #5
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True if Aviva had been moved to another site, instead of wedged into Landsdowne it could easily have been 60k seater. And at least it would fill all those seats many times each year, unlike most of the provincial stadia!

Back onto the topic of Pairc ui Chaoimh, its great news that it will be developed. However, I would add the proviso, that its all dependent on weather the GAA do it on the cheap. For example, Croke Park (apart from hill 16) is great, but, some of the "new" provincial grounds are little more then concrete terraces that passed for stadiums 50 years ago. I would cite the example of the redeveloped Gaelic Grounds in Limerick, despite significant investment they are dire. Especially, compared to Thomond Park.

I am just worried that €50 million would build an amazing 10k seater....but 50k is stretching it!

C
well they spent 40mill on thomond and 12 mill on gaelic grounds so i suppose there is a perfect in between somewhere, do we know any more on pairc ui caoimh? is it going to be all seater or part seater part terrace?
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Old June 16th, 2010, 02:08 PM   #6
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Totally agree with 'thebig C' on the GAA refurbs of the grounds. So many of them are done on the cheap, and this is seriously short-term thinking. What are these grounds going to look like in 10-20 years? In the scheme of things the Cork ground isn't that old (not 40+ years old), yet it looks so on it's last legs.

Take McHale Park's (Castlebar) new 'redvelopment' - a new all seater stand with a roof that has stanchions to support it. What new sporting development would go with such a cheapo roof as a long term development. Virtually all the new stands have this approach. And like the Gaelic Grounds, Pearce Park (Galway) applies the same logic of 3 quarters of the ground having concrete terrace. To be fair to the Galway development at least the seated stand would be passable in the UK for a new rugby/football development (just though).

So I can't see Cork getting much for 50M. What do you reckon? Maybe 2 new stands one two tier, and tidied up terraces?
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Old June 16th, 2010, 04:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limerickguy View Post
well they spent 40mill on thomond and 12 mill on gaelic grounds so i suppose there is a perfect in between somewhere, do we know any more on pairc ui caoimh? is it going to be all seater or part seater part terrace?
If you think about it 40mill for Thomond; effectively built 2 world class new stands and thus a 26,000 stadium (adding 13,000 seats). The 50mill for a 50,000 1st rate stadium just doesn't really add-up unless it will be another cut-corner job. I'd be really surprised if its anything but a new main stand (with second tier - adding the 7,000), and a roof on the other stand.

We've really got to stop going on about how 'brilliant' the GAA stadia are in international terms. They are a fantastic achievement considering both the size of our country and the ethos of the GAA (amateur), but they are a million miles away from the quality build when compared to most second tier (no pun intended) stadia in England.
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Old June 16th, 2010, 06:05 PM   #8
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Totally agree. I think the problem is that the GAA are trying to keep 32 stadia on the go. Personally i reckon if they concentrated on 8-12 stadia in the whole island, and focused ninety percent of the money on those we'd have at least 8 (excluding croke park) top class stadia for fans. Every county in the counrty pracitcally has had a stand redeveloped over the last few years.

About the McHale stand. I agree the supports are terrible but to play devils advocate Kingsholm stadium has redevloped their stand and it has supports as well. But they'd be an exception rather than a rule in English rugby. The whole job cost 16million including a museum to Mayo GAA under the pitch. (I'd imagine filled with various silver medals). Bit short sigthed I thought as with just a bit more money they could have put bucket seats round the whole bowl. I give anything to not sit on a wet piece of concrete and not be told with pride that it's the only all-seater GAA stadium. What ******* cheek.
*breathes deeply*
Moving on,
40million in thomond built 2 stands of 15,100, cleaned up terraces and bought and demolished four houses.

50mil will do what in Cork, taking way lower construction costs, maybe 25-30,000 poor quality seats, standard terrace, **** all facilites for fans

I reall hope im wrong. Would love to see something of the quality of Thomond there.
I at least hope it looks good.
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Old June 16th, 2010, 06:06 PM   #9
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Standard cost for a top quality 50,000 seater stadium in Europe in about €100Million judging by very hastily done research on wikipedia.

However, most of these have been brand new stadia. The Ernst-Happel Stadion was redone for Euro 2008 for 40Mil and it has a capacity of 49,000 all seated Uefa elite 5 stars. It's possible... but not probable

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Old June 16th, 2010, 07:26 PM   #10
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come to think of it, the reason why thomond was so expensive is because there are corporate boxes, flush new places for different tv crew etc etc,

corporate boxes wont be needed here as its only an amature game and it wont attract "away" interests from different countries like soccer and rugby does, so i think putting this aside, i have a feeling we could see quite a nice stadium that was built "cheaply" due to recession and eventhough it mightnt be "kitted out" like non gaa stadiums are, theres no reason for it to be, so what we would get is a well finished stadium that meets the needs of its punters of the amature game
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Old June 16th, 2010, 10:49 PM   #11
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Why wouldn't it want corporate boxes?
Croke Park has corporate boxes. If it is of a high standard i think it'd be good to host some of the quarter or semi-finals there.
Half the time croker doesnt fully fill even though they're having a double header.
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Old June 16th, 2010, 11:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thefancydanhimself View Post
Why wouldn't it want corporate boxes?
Croke Park has corporate boxes. If it is of a high standard i think it'd be good to host some of the quarter or semi-finals there.
Half the time croker doesnt fully fill even though they're having a double header.
hmm, sounds like a good idea but in reality the fat cats up in dublin would want to keep that within croke park, also theres semple and gaelic grounds which fill up once or twice (iff that) a year, with no corporate boxes..seems like a waste of money
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Old June 17th, 2010, 02:15 PM   #13
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[QUOTE The whole job cost 16million including a museum to Mayo GAA under the pitch. (I'd imagine filled with various silver medals). Bit short sigthed I thought as with just a bit more money they could have put bucket seats round the whole bowl. I give anything to not sit on a wet piece of concrete and not be told with pride that it's the only all-seater GAA stadium. What ******* cheek.
[/QUOTE]

Cheeky! About them silver medals (but sadly right).

Likewise keeping 32 stadiums going and making them look half right is at the expense of a handful of really top stadia. Obvioulsy there's a historical legacy here, and county identities to protect but it really gives us half arsed (thats a technical term) infrastructure.

Maybe going on a different line here but with the right investment (i.e. in 5-6 stadia) Ireland would have a first rate sporting set-up to hold international events.

I think the days are well and truly gone when the GAA should be fearful of allowing 'foreign' sports to use the facilities. And as Croke as demonstrated it can be a huge source of additional revenue for the Association.
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Old June 17th, 2010, 02:19 PM   #14
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The big paradox to all this (I'm starting to use bigger words now boy), is that all the investment in Cork, Thurles, Limerick, Galway counts for very little when you see how many top top games are staged in it. Take the All-Ireland QFs, all the matches will be played in Croker. The Ulster SFC Final is likely to be played there, and most Leinster matches (GAA) will be there also.

If you ask me Croke is loosing it's charm in GAA because it's no longer such a big thing to get there.
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Old June 18th, 2010, 02:48 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limerickguy View Post
well they spent 40mill on thomond and 12 mill on gaelic grounds so i suppose there is a perfect in between somewhere, do we know any more on pairc ui caoimh? is it going to be all seater or part seater part terrace?
Were the Gaelic Grounds €12 million?.....Looks like the builder saw them coming!

I would imagine they will go for all seater, at that price. However, as has been mentioned already, alot of the GAA alseaters are uncovered save for 1 stand....meaning most of the seats are not used when its raining!!
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Old June 18th, 2010, 02:59 AM   #16
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I think one of the problems with the GAA is not that they keep 32 stadiums going, but, that they try to keep a Croke Park in each county. The nominal capacity of many GAA stadiums is rediculous when you consider how often they are full.

What they should do is, instead of having huge concrete bowls that can accommodate upwards of 25000 people, focus on having quality 8-10000 seater stadiums. Much as in football leagues through out Europe, smaller clubs have smaller stadiums. That way, they are actually full a greater proportion of the time. Furthermore, a smaller facility will be easier and cheaper to maintain. It need not be expensive either, I read an article recently about a company that essentially designs standard pre-designed stadiums that are all below 15000 capacity to keep economies in order. However, all neet UEFA standards. I will try to get some links on this. Or, closer to home Shamrock Rovers new ground isn't half bad....fill in each goal end and it would be a neat little stadium!

C
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Old June 18th, 2010, 05:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebig C View Post
Were the Gaelic Grounds €12 million?.....Looks like the builder saw them coming!

I would imagine they will go for all seater, at that price. However, as has been mentioned already, alot of the GAA alseaters are uncovered save for 1 stand....meaning most of the seats are not used when its raining!!
jp mc manus payed some of that 12million too as its more of a "sporting Limerick" stadium, so i suppose he felt like he should help out his local city??

To be honest i think if theres going to be seats, they would be covered by a roof, cant see them spending 50million and have the same capacity as gaelic grounds (only 12), id imagine there would be a second tier in either one or two stands for that price
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Old June 19th, 2010, 08:03 PM   #18
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I found an interesting thread on archiseek, seems like it will be a two tiered stand, and a refurbishment of the rest of the stadium

http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=8204
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Old June 19th, 2010, 11:33 PM   #19
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Although I'd welcome any improvement in GAA stadia with open arms (I'm pretty sick of the state of most) this centre of excellence is a disgrace idea is a disgrace. What vial component to the plan does it add that means that if it wasn't beside pairc uí caoimh it would make redevelopment unworkable.
A disgrace. If it's ugly too im gonna be forced to write many a longer rambling rant on this. Will there still be a park reduced in size or is that it, no park at all?


Also why are there no photos of this available. It must be a bodge job if they're not waving the plans about with abandon
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Old June 19th, 2010, 11:39 PM   #20
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http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-video...lopment-plans/

Seems like nothing in this plan is transparent, this says its going to be 60,000
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