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Old September 14th, 2013, 07:16 PM   #2361
Vertical_Gotham
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This James is a rock star right now in the skyscraper world! Excited to see renders soon. If no renders by the end of the month then good possibility we get our height back?
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Old September 14th, 2013, 07:24 PM   #2362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertical_Gotham View Post
This James is a rock star right now in the skyscraper world! Excited to see renders soon. If no renders by the end of the month then good possibility we get our height back?
You just spoke my words
Seriously, there better be no renders already.
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Old September 14th, 2013, 07:35 PM   #2363
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I hope you're right. I'd rather wait 2 years for a render of a 472m tower than 2 weeks for a render of a 382m tower
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Old September 14th, 2013, 07:40 PM   #2364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertical_Gotham View Post
I do apologize & I am really sorry for that. Then whoever did say that was in poor taste. My apologies. # feel bad
No worries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertical_Gotham View Post
This James is a rock star right now in the skyscraper world! Excited to see renders soon. If no renders by the end of the month then good possibility we get our height back?
I'm not entirely sure what to think about it BUT Mr Adrian Smith did say he's working on 1200ft tower in ny... Other than that I'm not sure if the developer would like the news about their landmark tower being cut over 100m floating in the news. Well they're not floating yet but if some media picks it up I think they would straight it up if it wasn't truth. In fact that would be the best move right now to get someone publish it and see what happens next
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Old September 14th, 2013, 08:19 PM   #2365
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didn't someone notice that CTBUH had listed this building down as 382m again the other day?
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Old September 14th, 2013, 08:31 PM   #2366
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That was me who noticed it.
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Old September 14th, 2013, 09:21 PM   #2367
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I also checked it before I posted my last reply. Would ctbuh change height of one of a tallest towers based solely on a rumor? I remember that ctbuh have had some inside news for Kingdom Tower (also designed by smith+gill) in the past so I wouldn't be surprised if they have solid info on this one as well.
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Old September 14th, 2013, 09:52 PM   #2368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmac View Post
Compared to what's happening in other parts of the world, e.g., china, dubai, moscow (yes,moscow), s korea, NY is no longer the leader in arch design and vibrancy. Comparing NY to shanghai is similar to comparing Wash DC with NY. 1200 feet is today an average sized skyscraper in a non descript city in China. And those average-sized buildings take aesthetic design to the next level- unlike what you see in NY and other American cities. One world trade is be perfect example...boring, safe and designed by committee with the utmost conservative approach.

Aside from a few examples, buildings in NY don't say "look at me" like the iconic ESB did all those many decades ago did. They do their best to blend into a vertical landscape that takes its design direction from 1950 and 1960 era buildings...No longer world leading, by anyone's definition.
1200ft is not exactly an average-sized skyscraper in Shanghai right now. It would be one of the top 5 I believe in height, no? Hardly average. Also, wait and see the design of this tower before writing off all NYC designs as boring. Also, your comparisons are a bit exaggerated and comparing a place like Dubai to NYC in terms of design-style is a bit ridiculous.

Last edited by aquablue; September 14th, 2013 at 10:04 PM.
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Old September 14th, 2013, 09:53 PM   #2369
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Does the world really need a CTBUH in the first place?? Who are they to say how tall something is??

Anyway I don't want Manhattan turning into Shanghai or Dubai so I'm okay with more understated skyscrapers contributing to the MUCH greater whole of the Skyline ...

In Shanghai and Dubai the Skyscraper trumps the skyline ... in Manhattan the Skyline trumps the Skyscraper ... and I like that part of NYC ...

As I said earlier, let North America in General and NYC in particular find their own Supertall architecture vocabulary.

Last edited by Riley1066; September 14th, 2013 at 09:55 PM. Reason: more things to say
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Old September 15th, 2013, 02:15 AM   #2370
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I think it would be better to wait and see what this design brings before going into doom-and-gloom mode on modern NY design. There are several proposals and towers U/C like Tower Verre, Leonard St, the Pyramid, HY etc, that easily show that NY is still going to be producing innovative buildings in the near future that are more daring than buildings in recent decades. The WTC1 tower (which is rather conservative, I agree) was a special case, so I don't think that argument is valid or has any bearing on the future of NYC/US innovation in architecture. NYC is a long established world city and has to deal with the economic realities of that situation unlike new rising cities like Shanghai and Dubai, therefore, comparing skyscraper height/flamboyance in design/ambition in the US to China/UAE/Asia is a bit ridiculous given the differences in governance and stage of economic and city development. Yes, the height decrease of this proposal was disappointing, but the design could make up for it and be as good or better than many towers going up in Asia and Europe. The fact that it will be curvy right in the heart of midtown will make it standout at least. So, let's not jump the gun and wait and see what Mr. Smith and Extell can produce.

Last edited by aquablue; September 15th, 2013 at 02:28 AM.
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Old September 15th, 2013, 04:04 AM   #2371
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Also, people will be able to walk on the sidewalk right up and into this building. It will have a giant department store in the first floors. People who don't have any interest in going inside will walk right by it on the sidewalk in about 25 seconds. In those other cities, a building this tall would be on its own block with a giant plaza and would be accessible mostly by car. New York is a very pedestrian (people) friendly place and this building will be a part of that experience. I'll take New York, and this building (whatever it looks like), any day.
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Old September 15th, 2013, 11:39 AM   #2372
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I wish Vito Corleone a member of CTBUH and and a user of scc would share with us what was the source for the height change at ctbuh database
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Old September 15th, 2013, 12:36 PM   #2373
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I just noticed there are two stars next two the height of 225 at ctbuh. Two stars means minimum height so I guess in this case ctbuh doesn't know much more than we do - if the height was definitive and confirmed I'm sure they wouldn't mark it this way.
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Old September 15th, 2013, 12:56 PM   #2374
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^ What? How did you know that?
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Old September 15th, 2013, 02:03 PM   #2375
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Know what exactly? It's pretty obvious they marked it minimum height because they're not sure whether the tower will be 382m or taller.
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Old September 15th, 2013, 03:02 PM   #2376
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^ the Vito C. post not post #2350 .
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Old September 15th, 2013, 03:39 PM   #2377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riley1066 View Post
Does the world really need a CTBUH in the first place?? Who are they to say how tall something is??

Anyway I don't want Manhattan turning into Shanghai or Dubai so I'm okay with more understated skyscrapers contributing to the MUCH greater whole of the Skyline ...

In Shanghai and Dubai the Skyscraper trumps the skyline ... in Manhattan the Skyline trumps the Skyscraper ... and I like that part of NYC ...

As I said earlier, let North America in General and NYC in particular find their own Supertall architecture vocabulary.
Haha say that to Jan Klerks, founder of Skyscrapercity.
He had a important function at CTBUH for a few years.

I think CTBUH is a very important organisation. If they wouldn't exist developers could create their own measurements and standards.

For example a lot of residential buildings add a number of non existing floors to the building which makes it look more impressive and of course there is also spire adding to make the height look more impressive. CTBUH verifies these claims and makes clear what height/#floors it really is.
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Old September 15th, 2013, 04:41 PM   #2378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmac
Compared to what's happening in other parts of the world, e.g., china, dubai, moscow (yes,moscow), s korea, NY is no longer the leader in arch design and vibrancy. Comparing NY to shanghai is similar to comparing Wash DC with NY. 1200 feet is today an average sized skyscraper in a non descript city in China. And those average-sized buildings take aesthetic design to the next level- unlike what you see in NY and other American cities. One world trade is be perfect example...boring, safe and designed by committee with the utmost conservative approach.

Aside from a few examples, buildings in NY don't say "look at me" like the iconic ESB did all those many decades ago did. They do their best to blend into a vertical landscape that takes its design direction from 1950 and 1960 era buildings...No longer world leading, by anyone's definition.
Not to mention that aesthetics and taste are subjective...
i for one don't happen to like Shanghai Tower. I can appreciate it, however.
That is to say, there is no way to say what these buildings ought to look like.
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Last edited by phoenixboi08; September 15th, 2013 at 05:43 PM.
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Old September 15th, 2013, 05:02 PM   #2379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozenBDJ View Post
^ the Vito C. post not post #2350 .
Everybody knows Vito is a ctbuh member. It's not much of a secret
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Old September 15th, 2013, 05:07 PM   #2380
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I wonder if we'll get a rendering in tomorrow's WSJ, which is released to subscribers late tonight on the Internet.
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