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Old October 11th, 2013, 06:38 PM   #2981
Ghostface79
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Can't believe I'm gonna say it, but Good job Nimbys! Hope we get a more interesting design next time, hopefully higher ( they probably won't have much choice but to go higher if u think about it).
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Old October 11th, 2013, 06:42 PM   #2982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twopsy View Post
The cantilever was the most interesting thing about the design :-(

What I do not understand: They bought the air rights of that historic building, but actually they are not allowed to use the airspace above that building. That does not seem very logical for me.
Mr. Walpole said that it was just a massing designed to highlight the cantilever. The new design could be anything now.
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Old October 11th, 2013, 06:48 PM   #2983
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What a ride this tower is! Quo vadis Nordstrom Tower?

So basically, without the cantilever, they are pretty much forced to go higher since 220 CPS will interfere in the near future. Good job CB 5 (I can't believe I'm saying this lolol...).
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Old October 11th, 2013, 06:54 PM   #2984
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I don't understand why they can't make the floorplates bigger above the podium, when this area will go away they have to add it somewhere.
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Old October 11th, 2013, 06:54 PM   #2985
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Well.. Extell can go 2 ways to say FU.

1) Build much much higher.
2) City can still issue the special permit and Extell proceeds to build cantilevered tower.

According to this article:
57th Street Neighbors Veto Extell's Request For Special Permit
http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2013/1...ial_permit.php

Quote:
The community board's rejection is just an advisory position, so it remains to be seen if the city awards the permit. Even if they don't, Extell is still going to build as-of-right, which, thanks to lots of purchased air rights, allows for the nosebleed height, not that anyone knows what that heigh will look like.
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Old October 11th, 2013, 07:02 PM   #2986
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http://ny.curbed.com/

57th Street Neighbors Veto Extell's Request For Special Permit



Less than a week after 57th Street residents dealt with yet another crane problem at Extell's One57, the developer asked the community to please, oh pretty please, grant him a special permit for the new supertall tower he plans to build. The Community Board, reports the Observer, said no. "I don't think Extell has been a good neighbor," said one board member, summing up the room's general feeling. Extell is moving forward with plans for a 1,550-foot-tall tower at 217 West 57th Street, and the developer is seeking a....
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Old October 11th, 2013, 07:08 PM   #2987
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....

Last edited by Subsequence; March 8th, 2017 at 04:53 PM.
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Old October 11th, 2013, 07:17 PM   #2988
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Originally Posted by Subsequence View Post
what is the height of this tower? 1550/1423/1450/???


All we know right now is that this tower is going all the way up to potato!
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Old October 11th, 2013, 08:20 PM   #2989
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Community board scorns Extell’s cantilever for West 57th tower
http://therealdeal.com/blog/2013/10/...st-57th-tower/



Quote:
Gary Barnett himself attended Thursday’s Community Board 5 meeting — along with a cadre of lawyers and consultants — to pitch his proposal to cantilever the building 291 feet above the Art Students League of New York.

“I know that there’s a big issue about the height and tall buildings being built around Central Park, but this is the wrong building to talk about that issue,” Barnett said at the meeting, the New York Observer reported. Both Extell and its anchor retail tenant Nordstrom have previously said that the cantilever is essential to allow for large, column-free space on the first five floors of the mixed-use tower.
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Old October 11th, 2013, 08:37 PM   #2990
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I kinda hope the nimbies can do some good here... in the form of getting a redesign of what most people on this forum seem to think has the potential to be a less than satisfactory design (at least from what we've seen so far).
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Old October 11th, 2013, 08:37 PM   #2991
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Regarding the crane on Extell's One57 broken by Superstorm Sandy, was it ever established that the crane was improperly positioned or locked down as the storm approached? If not, it's unfair to blame Extell for having the misfortune of having a construction crane 1,000 feet in the air when the strongest winds to hit the NY area in almost 75 years (since the "Long Island Express" hurricane of 1938) hit the skyline. And the crane issue forced them to try and play catch-up after the new crane was installed, probably leading to requests to extend the construction day both earlier and later than normal. As for this last incident, with the busted pump, yes, it's annoying that the street was closed for a few hours, but no one died, as in the crane collapse that killed 7 people in Manhattan a few years ago.

Getting back to this building, it's possible that a cantilever at a higher elevation would be allowed, if the current proposal is denied by NYC. After all, if Extell is primarily interested in getting the best Central Park views for the upper apartments, a cantilever that begins at, say, 700 feet (instead of at 291 feet in this current proposal) would be less obtrusive, while still providing maximum Park views for the top 700+ feet of the tower. Also, while I am not questioning that Extell's engineers designed a structurally sound 1133-foot cantilevered section (1423 feet in total height and a cantilever that starts at 291 feet above street level), it might be safer overall (or at least seem safer) to have a 700-foot cantilevered tower.

EDIT: If Extell does propose a higher cantilever to the full LPC, they would probably offer to raise the un-cantilevered space above the Art Student's League building another 200 feet higher or so than the current proposal, not 400 feet as I suggested above. They would want to start the section with the 28-foot bump-out as close to the ground as possible. Also, whatever square footage is lost from a carved-out cantilever section would have to be re-assigned somewhere else. Of course, Extell might try to get the current proposal passed by the LPC before they consider any re-design at all.


About the storm issue, which might come back into the headlines in the not-too-distant future with all the 900-foot-high+ buildings being built in NYC, here's what the Wiki page for the 1938 hurricane says about the winds in the NYC area:

The area escaped the worst of the wind and storm surge because it was hit by the storm's weaker western side. Winds were recorded at 60 mph at Central Park, Battery Park recorded sustained winds of 70 mph with gusts to 80 mph, and a gust of 90 mph was recorded 500 feet above ground at the Daily News Building. Winds were estimated at 120 mph on top of the Empire State Building. The highest winds were from the north to northwest on the back side of the storm. The storm surge was 8½ feet at the Battery and the Mean Low Water storm tide was 16¾ feet at Willets Point. In New York Harbor the waters rose 7 feet in a half-hour.

Last edited by McSky; October 11th, 2013 at 09:10 PM.
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Old October 11th, 2013, 09:07 PM   #2992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McSky View Post
About the storm issue, which might come back into the headlines in the not-too-distant future with all the 900-foot-high+ buildings being built in NYC...
We're trending towards a situation in which New York will be experiencing hurricanes nearly as frequently as the Gulf Coast. While Extell could perhaps be excused for being unprepared when Sandy hit, ignorance isn't going to be an excuse for the developers of these tall towers going forward.

As for the CB vetoing the cantilever, I actually hope they succeed -- but that's largely based on the unflattering proportions of what we saw in those videos. If what was shown at that meeting was in fact just a massing model, and a better, more beautiful design exists, Extell may have really done themselves a disservice. I'd guess we'll see a more detailed render of the cantilevered version intended to "sell" the city on its aesthetic merits, before the city decides on giving the permit.
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Old October 11th, 2013, 09:18 PM   #2993
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Quote:
its anchor retail tenant Nordstrom have previously said that the cantilever is essential to allow for large, column-free space on the first five floors
I'm just curious.

First... The Nordstrom will be 5 stories high at the base of the tower. The roof of the retail according to the diagram is 97 ft high.

but the cantilever starts almost 300ft above street level, so my question is how can the cantilever allow large free column space if the cantilever starts almost 200ft above the roof of the retail portion (Nordstrom)?

It seems to me that cantilever only purpose is to max out the residential space by making it wider at the point of the cantilever.

If the city ultimately denies this special permit, then I believe Extell will have no choice to go higher to make up the square footage lost as the result of this.
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Old October 11th, 2013, 10:13 PM   #2994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertical_Gotham View Post




I'm just curious.

First... The Nordstrom will be 5 stories high at the base of the tower. The roof of the retail according to the diagram is 97 ft high.

but the cantilever starts almost 300ft above street level, so my question is how can the cantilever allow large free column space if the cantilever starts almost 200ft above the roof of the retail portion (Nordstrom)?

It seems to me that cantilever only purpose is to max out the residential space by making it wider at the point of the cantilever.

If the city ultimately denies this special permit, then I believe Extell will have no choice to go higher to make up the square footage lost as the result of this.
Because what the cantilever is doing is shifting the core (center of the tower) to the Northeast corner of the Nordstrom footprint which would also move the western perimeter wall eastward as well ( unless of course there is actually another internal cantilever of the west and south walls of the tower) which would allow even more column free space in the retail building...so yes it could be that this will now be a skinnier and taller tower...so now we get to see the drama play out... does Barnett push the issue or go to plan B (which actually is probably already drawn and ready if needed)
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Old October 11th, 2013, 10:25 PM   #2995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McSky View Post
Regarding the crane on Extell's One57 broken by Superstorm Sandy, was it ever established that the crane was improperly positioned or locked down as the storm approached? If not, it's unfair to blame Extell for having the misfortune of having a construction crane 1,000 feet in the air when the strongest winds to hit the NY area in almost 75 years (since the "Long Island Express" hurricane of 1938) hit the skyline.
Yes and no, Yes it was a 100 year storm.. BUT the crane operator at one 57 DID screw up. There are many many other cranes around the city...including those on the WTC1 that did not collapse...they did have plenty of time to prepare. I can understand some of the local concern for safety given their track record (I walk under these cranes several times a day)...but it seems like this issue (the cantilever) is one of just power tripping by the local board (so often the case in NYC)
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Old October 11th, 2013, 10:27 PM   #2996
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What a roller coaster ride with this building!
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Old October 11th, 2013, 11:09 PM   #2997
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As an Upstate NY resident I always chuckle at these Manhattan "communities" ... hehehe
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Old October 12th, 2013, 07:38 PM   #2998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertical_Gotham View Post
Community board scorns Extell’s cantilever for West 57th tower
http://therealdeal.com/blog/2013/10/...st-57th-tower/

Point is that if Gary Barnett would just propose something really worthy of this place, tall, classy and with lots of style - no one will even want to object. In this case in particular - this is like some kid with Lego or building blocks putting them together the best way he can.

REDO the damn design and public will love you for it!
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Old October 12th, 2013, 08:11 PM   #2999
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I hope this building goes through at least a slight redesign. But if it doesn't, I wouldn't be so sad. I hope this thing surpasses the Willis Tower, though!
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Old October 12th, 2013, 08:52 PM   #3000
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Darn...yet another NYC tower, soo close, and just shy a couple feet from beating the Willis/Sears Tower's roof height.

What is it, the 3rd tower now so close to topping the Willis? - WTC1, 432Park and now 225West 57th.

Give us 28 more feet please
Shvo Central Park Tower with 100fl might give us those 28 extra feet.
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217 west 57th street, 225 west 57th street, central park south, cps, extell, new york, nordstrom tower, nyc, supertall

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