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Old October 17th, 2013, 03:01 PM   #3041
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^ I thought it's up to the LPC next week that happens next.
And adding another 100 feet makes almost no difference at all, but that ugly cantilever does!

Shame on you Barnett! And shame on A.Smith and G.Gill!
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Old October 17th, 2013, 03:49 PM   #3042
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Yeah the league already accepted the offer. The people voting now aren't involved with the money.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 04:38 PM   #3043
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The cantilver is no big deal to me. I'm happy with a 1,450 foot tower if SG has a great design.

Anyway, we know that the Park Lane will be redeveloped, but the squat, post-war building just to the west eventually will be razed too. It's a full-block (i.e., CPS to 58th St), market-rate rental tower.

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Old October 17th, 2013, 05:25 PM   #3044
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Quote:
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The cantilver is no big deal to me. I'm happy with a 1,450 foot tower if SG has a great design.
Totally agree. A great design & everything is forgiven, including height.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 05:30 PM   #3045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkyskunk2 View Post
Yeah the league already accepted the offer. The people voting now aren't involved with the money.
are you sure? since the previous talk was about another offer for 23 million $?
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Old October 17th, 2013, 05:31 PM   #3046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkyskunk2 View Post
Yeah the league already accepted the offer. The people voting now aren't involved with the money.
Yea, the major hurdle was the students league, if in fact they had already had taken the payoff & signs off. The LMC will grant the cantilever with no issues because the cantilever hangs aprox 300ft above the land marked building which will be totally not effected. There are no alterations or work being done with building and that is the only primary concern for the LMC. Then DOB issues permit w/o a blink.

I just want to see the rendering revealed already and I'm hoping I will be pleasantly.... no, ecstatic with the design.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 06:18 PM   #3047
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Maybe I'm insane but I swear I read an article claiming the offer was accepted but some other council had to vote. Feel free to ignore my previous comment.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 06:30 PM   #3048
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Quote:
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Guys. In my opinion the league will unfortunately approve the cantilever next week.

Hint: 25 million reasons.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/16/ny...Ihg6hnQ+j5JbBg



Plus, we all already know he's threatened the league he will go higher if they don't approve which some of the opposition at the hearing seemed allergic & afraid of the idea of this thing rising even taller.

Money talks & the fear walks = happy league

Hope I'm wrong, but reading this little nugget... I dunno.
Of course, that amount of money is a big incentive, moreover it is THE big incentive, it is pretty possible that they accept the money, as we say in spanish: por la plata baila el perro (The dog dances for money)
But I don't think that going higher could really be perceived as "threat" for them, after all, what difference makes a building, right next door going from 1450 ft to 1550 or even 1650? absolutely nothing, it is just going from gigantic to a little bit more gigantic. It could cast just a little bit more shadow? yes, but the overhang would cast much more shadow even with less height, not to mention the visual impact over the historic building of the cantilever is much greater that an added 100 or 200 ft. on an already gigantic tower.
As a matter of fact, I think the threat would be the opposite: If you don't let me add 200 ft to the tower, I will overhang it 20 ft over your building.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 07:09 PM   #3049
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Obviously, the incentive for Gary for the approval of the Cantilever is so that he does not have to build higher than 1,423ft. His people probably advised him that the returns will not be great because construction costs will be sky high by just adding the extra 100 ft or so.

For some reason I really don’t believe this has to do with expanding Nordstrom floor plates as reason given by Extell and AS+GG at that hearing. The truth is, it is all about saving construction costs, maximizing returns and moving the tower further east to offer unobstructed views from 220 CPS. We all know this.

He can build taller with or without the cantilever, but I suspect he opts not to do so, therefore paying the league $25 million is pennies compared to what he may have to pay to reach 1500 + ft w/o the cantilever. It’s all hypothetical, because I really don’t know how expensive it is to build much taller.

If for some reason this cantilever issue gets denied one way or the other, Gary will have no choice to eat the added costs by necessity because 220 CPS will block a good part of his tower. If that is the case, I would not be surprised Gary building over 1,550 ft to try to achieve the returns he desires. Maybe, he may have to flirt with 100 floors here to get the returns he wants. Anyway, pure spec on my part.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 07:16 PM   #3050
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I think the threat would be the opposite: If you don't let me add 200 ft to the tower, I will overhang it 20 ft over your building.
Extell can't overhang The Art Students League building at all without the approval of the Landmarks Preservation Commission and the building owners.

In the case of 107 West 57th, JDS was ready to tweak their proposal when they walked in for the full hearing before the LPC. They apparently agreed to change the glass in the atrium/lobby on 57th Street, and agreed to slightly alter the tower's footprint as to require less demolition of the existing Steinway building's inner courtyard.

For 225 West 57th Street, Extell could try to stand firm and get their current proposal through the LPC (with the likely concurrence of The Art Students League due to the $25 million inducement). Or they might be prepared to offer modified proposals, immediately, or only if serious opposition arises during the meeting. These modifications might include a higher starting point for the cantilever, and/or a lessening of its extent. It wouldn't hurt for Extell to share a more finished rendering with the LPC, in order to excite some of the panel members about Gill & Smith's vision for the site.

The hearing is October 22nd.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 07:47 PM   #3051
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I anticipate that Extell will show the actual design at the LPC, since it has a lot riding on its decision.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 08:10 PM   #3052
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Yes, I imagine Extell has a handful of contingencies in place, ready to break out, depending on the level of opposition. But they wouldn't want to tip their hand and suggest to the LPC that losing the cantilever would be anything but catastrophic to the tower's viability. I would still be interested to see, out of sheer curiosity, all the variations Extell and SmithGill have in their pocket.

Anyway, I hope Robert is right and the design is revealed in full in a couple days. All the bickering and snarking about aesthetics when we have such little information is pretty tiring.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 10:19 PM   #3053
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Quote:
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Extell can't overhang The Art Students League building at all without the approval of the Landmarks Preservation Commission and the building owners.
Yeah, I know that. My point is that all he has (which is plenty BTW) to make the overhang approved is the money he offers. What I tried to say is that the LPC wont approve the overhang just for the "fear" of this building going taller, the impact of the size of this building over the Arts Students League is already high as it is at 1423 ft, and it certainly wont differ much with an extra 100 or 200 ft, neither if he makes it only 600 ft tall, it will be anyway a very big building vs a much smaller one.
If he says to the LPC, if you don't let me overhang the building I'll have to go higher, they will say: Ok, go ahead, go taller, we don't mind, that's your problem.

BTW, all this situation debunks the thought of many peoplearound here that he must go taller, that he is a dumb is he choose to make this building shorter than Sears or that for him it is a waste not to go taller, as he is willing to pay big bucks just to not have to go taller. So for him it is obviously more convenient if he can make this building not so tall, without losing the views. (but if he can't have his way with the cantilever, then he will have to go higher, apparently)
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Old October 18th, 2013, 05:35 AM   #3054
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Real estate humor:

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Old October 18th, 2013, 07:15 PM   #3055
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217 W 57 footprint

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Old October 19th, 2013, 06:20 AM   #3056
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So this tower's lot is much wider than the main frame will be?
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Old October 20th, 2013, 01:12 AM   #3057
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That doesn't look like the same location? 217 W 57 or 225W57?
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Old October 20th, 2013, 04:37 AM   #3058
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NYguy posted this over on SSP.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=1467

Good to know they are aware of Extell's bullshit. I'm feeling pretty good about this vote. They would have to show a truly dazzling design to make the cantilever look like a positive.
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Old October 20th, 2013, 07:06 AM   #3059
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Offereins View Post
That doesn't look like the same location? 217 W 57 or 225W57?
It's the same site. The site has multiple addresses because it was assembled from many different parcels.
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Old October 20th, 2013, 09:01 AM   #3060
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I liked this part..
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WHEREAS, there is concern of how a 1,424 feet tall building (and potentially taller) sited between West 57th Street and West 58th Street might impact Central Park, a Scenic Landmark; and
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217 west 57th street, 225 west 57th street, central park south, cps, extell, new york, nordstrom tower, nyc, supertall

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