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Old December 31st, 2013, 01:04 AM   #3621
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I wouldn't call it garbage, they did an accurate job and northstrom will create a significant shadow.

Looks pretty good once turned blue.

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Old December 31st, 2013, 01:30 AM   #3622
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The thing about the "shadow" complaints that I find the most bizarre is that practically the entire area that these horrifying shadows will touch is covered with freaking TREES.

If the graphic in that document had been more honestly designed, perhaps it would have looked like this:



If you compare the shadow map with an actual photo of the park, it becomes obvious that just about anywhere you could possibly stand that will be touched by a shadow, you will be standing under a tree - in all likelihood, enjoying the shade!
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Old December 31st, 2013, 01:32 AM   #3623
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Thats a very good observation, man. And really makes the shadow argument invalid.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 02:10 AM   #3624
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Saving Central Park visitors thousands on sunglass purchases every year
If you don't like hot weather, don't move to the south
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Old December 31st, 2013, 03:52 AM   #3625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 57th&1st View Post
The thing about the "shadow" complaints that I find the most bizarre is that practically the entire area that these horrifying shadows will touch is covered with freaking TREES.

If the graphic in that document had been more honestly designed, perhaps it would have looked like this:



If you compare the shadow map with an actual photo of the park, it becomes obvious that just about anywhere you could possibly stand that will be touched by a shadow, you will be standing under a tree - in all likelihood, enjoying the shade!
Totally not true. For instance immediately south of the baseball fields is a huge rock outcropping where people go all the time to lounge in the sun and take in the views. Due east of that is a playground which has little kids and adults out in the sun at all hours.

Plus, this shadow diagram is only at one time of day. The total area effected will be much larger when taking account of the sweep of the sun during the entire day.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 04:17 AM   #3626
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Totally not true. For instance immediately south of the baseball fields is a huge rock outcropping where people go all the time to lounge in the sun and take in the views. Due east of that is a playground which has little kids and adults out in the sun at all hours.

Plus, this shadow diagram is only at one time of day. The total area effected will be much larger when taking account of the sweep of the sun during the entire day.
If you actually look at the diagram, you can see that the rock outcropping is not shaded by any of the new buildings.

Anyway, if these people were serious, they'd be demanding that the Time Warner Center be torn down, as it shades a far less tree-covered (and larger!) area of the park than any of the new buildings.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 04:26 AM   #3627
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If you actually look at the diagram, you can see that the rock outcropping is not shaded by any of the new buildings.

Anyway, if these people were serious, they'd be demanding that the Time Warner Center be torn down, as it shades a far less tree-covered (and larger!) area of the park than any of the new buildings.
That is just one diagram for one time of the day. Go to the report and they have diagrams and renderings showing it being covered, and the playground right next to it.

The TWC was opposed for precisely these reasons. There were proposals to make it much bigger than it was ultimately made. In fact, it was recalling how big that fight was that made me surprised they were able to so easily build all these supertalls on 57th street.

I don't really care, I don't live by Central Park and I hardly ever use it. But if I lived down there and it was the park I used I'd be pissed too.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 04:51 AM   #3628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
That is just one diagram for one time of the day. Go to the report and they have diagrams and renderings showing it being covered, and the playground right next to it. The TWC was opposed for precisely these reasons. There were proposals to make it much bigger than it was ultimately made. In fact, it was recalling how big that fight was that made me surprised they were able to so easily build all these supertalls on 57th street. I don't really care, I don't live by Central Park and I hardly ever use it. But if I lived down there and it was the park I used I'd be pissed too.
This shadow is not fixed. It moves just like the clouds above, so your rock would be covered in shade for 15-20 mins and then the shadow moves it's merry way towards the east. You would be pissed by a moving shadow??

I bring my kid at the playground all the time at the south end of the park and I see one57 shadow and guess what it moves and this is the kicker... I see the kids are not running away from the shadow b4 it moves on to its next target. The kids are just doing there thang!! Now I don't see that much people enjoying the park now because it's too damn cold.

I highly doubt trees and vegetation will die because of moving shadows. An overcast day will do more damage. Lol.

The diagram shows the shadow moving at certain hours of the day with max coverage at around 4pm every day representing the fall/winter months. (It's not one day) then the whole city is covered in darkness 15-20 mins later because the sun naturally sets.

What really matters is during the Spring/ summer months when people are actually using the park for sun rays and the shadow effect during these months is nil over the park.

I say the article is junk because MASNYC report is overreacted and overblown, instilling fears in people who don't know better to attempt to unite the nimby's to change the zoning here along 57th street forever.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 05:06 AM   #3629
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It wouldn't be 15 or 20 minutes - the sun doesn't move that quickly accross the sky. Look at the diagram from Sept 21 and it shows the shadow from the same building being on one side of the playground at 2 pm and then the other side at 4 pm. So probably the playground would be covered for about 1.5 hours. That is a substantial amount of time.

And your point about the sun going down seems bizarre. Of course the sun goes down, all the more reason you may not want to be in a shadow during the time the sun is up.

Whether or not you agree with it it is a legit issue and this is why the U.S. is a free country - people get to discuss these sorts of things and effect policy. Zoning laws exist all across the country, and for a reason.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 05:26 AM   #3630
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Honestly, at the end of the day, if you are on this chat forum, and give a rats ass about the shadows Skyscrapers create, then you obviously made a mistake by joining SKYSCRAPERCITY.COM.
I'm not usually one to complain about off topic, bullshit conversation, but this is like being a Vegetarian and joining a chat forum on how to cut steaks.
Build em' taller and fatter I say
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Old December 31st, 2013, 05:30 AM   #3631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
It wouldn't be 15 or 20 minutes - the sun doesn't move that quickly accross the sky. Look at the diagram from Sept 21 and it shows the shadow from the same building being on one side of the playground at 2 pm and then the other side at 4 pm. So probably the playground would be covered for about 1.5 hours. That is a substantial amount of time. And your point about the sun going down seems bizarre. Of course the sun goes down, all the more reason you may not want to be in a shadow during the time the sun is up. Whether or not you agree with it it is a legit issue and this is why the U.S. is a free country - people get to discuss these sorts of things and effect policy. Zoning laws exist all across the country, and for a reason.
Fine. You give the Nimby's a couple blocks and then the'll ask for the mile and pretty soon they take all of Manhattan, because there will always will be issues that can effect policy. It's not hard to do.

First their arguments will be the shadows and when they win, on to the next agenda requiring a height committee & a design committee, then after that they will want to regulate the use of air rights, then after that landmark a whole swath of buildings in midtown to stunt growth there and it will go on and on until there is nothing left and they are satisfied. They will make issues, people will listen & follow, change the zoning laws and all of the sudden, dvelopment in the city will forever be stunted and riddled in politics.

A line has to be drawn at some point or else development for growth in the city will lose the war. We haven't had a boom like this since the 30's and they want to squash it ASAP and restrict by putting a choke hold on anymore future developments ?? They will never be satisfied.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 06:05 AM   #3632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 57th&1st View Post


The issue with these studies is that they show a single snap shot. A much more comprehensive study could be performed to show a broader picture of how the shadows effect the park (i.e. comparison of overlaid hourly shadow studies at various times of year - winter, spring, summer, fall). My guess is the impact would not be as dramatic as what is being represented in these images, which are shown when shadows are at their longest.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 08:42 AM   #3633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4npower View Post
Honestly, at the end of the day, if you are on this chat forum, and give a rats ass about the shadows Skyscrapers create, then you obviously made a mistake by joining SKYSCRAPERCITY.COM. I'm not usually one to complain about off topic, bullshit conversation, but this is like being a Vegetarian and joining a chat forum on how to cut steaks. Build em' taller and fatter I say
Agreed
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Old December 31st, 2013, 01:53 PM   #3634
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Put a moving mirror on top to reflect the sun to exactly where the shadow would be. There are towns in Norway and Austria that did this because the MOUNTAINS block the sun in winter.

People like to argue about a problem without even considering alternative solutions.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 03:00 PM   #3635
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Pff. the shadow of 111 West 57th is nothing compared to the shadow of TWC, it's only deeper into the park. When you let your dog out with a leash you walk in the sun, the dog walks in the sun, while the shadow of 111 West 57th is in between.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 04:22 PM   #3636
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Only Sheep's Meadow, the softball fields, and the pond aren't in shadows already due to all the trees, and they only make up about 10% of the park in that satellite image alone. The other 90% are already in shadow because they're covered by trees. Who cares if one thin little stripe of shadow moves across Sheep's Meadow for 2 hours out of the day during 2 months of the year? These Nimbys are morons and need to get over themselves.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 09:56 PM   #3637
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I agree.

This is just hilarious btw. What day and time is this pic based on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 57th&1st View Post
The thing about the "shadow" complaints that I find the most bizarre is that practically the entire area that these horrifying shadows will touch is covered with freaking TREES.

If the graphic in that document had been more honestly designed, perhaps it would have looked like this:



If you compare the shadow map with an actual photo of the park, it becomes obvious that just about anywhere you could possibly stand that will be touched by a shadow, you will be standing under a tree - in all likelihood, enjoying the shade!
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Old January 1st, 2014, 04:21 AM   #3638
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Only Sheep's Meadow, the softball fields, and the pond aren't in shadows already due to all the trees, and they only make up about 10% of the park in that satellite image alone. The other 90% are already in shadow because they're covered by trees.
Very inaccurate. The next time you visit New York City you should spend some more time in Central Park.
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Old January 1st, 2014, 04:27 AM   #3639
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Honestly, at the end of the day, if you are on this chat forum, and give a rats ass about the shadows Skyscrapers create, then you obviously made a mistake by joining SKYSCRAPERCITY.COM.
I'm not usually one to complain about off topic, bullshit conversation, but this is like being a Vegetarian and joining a chat forum on how to cut steaks.
Build em' taller and fatter I say
Really? So should we all just post pictures of skyscrapers while others of us post lots of these ??

Not much of a point of having a forum and participating in it if you aren't going to have thoughtful discussion of things related to Skyscrapers.

And what has most annoyed me about the tone of the reaction to the MAS report is the "they're morons" attitude towards them. People aren't "morons" just because they have a different opinion than you or me.
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Old January 1st, 2014, 04:48 AM   #3640
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Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
Really? So should we all just post pictures of skyscrapers while others of us post lots of these ??
Not much of a point of having a forum and participating in it if you aren't going to have thoughtful discussion of things related to Skyscrapers. And what has most annoyed me about the tone of the reaction to the MAS report is the "they're morons" attitude towards them. People aren't "morons" just because they have a different opinion than you or me.


Dude, your on a Skyscraper forum, complaining and crying about the shadows Skyscrapers create for people who choose to live, in the Skyscraper capitol of the world. You don't see the irony here?

I've got this BIG ass Oak Tree in my back yard that would really get your blood a boiling
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