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Old February 7th, 2014, 01:05 AM   #3741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowkey Lion View Post
I will not recant simply because no test exists. In my experience, people with Asperger's are more empathetic, sympathetic, and less inclined to lie, steal, or commit a crime. There is nothing subjective about what society deems to be a "good" person.

You really didn't need to chime in, Chicago boy.
Better is subjective. Even if those with aspergers are considered more 'good' by societal standards, it doesn't mean that they are better in any way over the average Joe. Many of those qualities you listed would be detrimental to societal progress in many instances, thus not better at all. How many amazing monuments to humanity would be built with empathy, honesty, and purity? Few. How many great businesses would rise with leaders who are sympathetic and perfectly goody-goody? I doubt many.

I'm not a Chicago boy, jeez. I live nowhere near and I was born far away. Also, I can chime in, yep. It's a forum, do you own it? If not, insert your fist in your mouth.

Last edited by aquablue; February 7th, 2014 at 01:10 AM.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 01:09 AM   #3742
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'Chicago boy'... wow how mature...

What's wrong with being born and living in Chicago? it looks like a huge clean city, and its reputation over here is outstanding from people who have visited

Anyway; is it me or do those massing models seem to be TOO detailed? It seems like Extell are really wanting the cantilever as they show a much more detailed render of that version making it look much more appealing
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Old February 7th, 2014, 01:11 AM   #3743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamtheSTIG View Post
'Chicago boy'... wow how mature...

What's wrong with being born and living in Chicago? it looks like a huge clean city, and its reputation over here is outstanding from people who have visited

Anyway; is it me or do those massing models seem to be TOO detailed? It seems like Extell are really wanting the cantilever as they show a much more detailed render of that version making it look much more appealing
That's the point, he's not. How EMPATHETIC of you Lion. You are SO true to your statement that people with Aspergers are more good than the rest of us by embracing a nice and smug superiority-complex regarding other cities. what a hypocrit.

People from Chicago should be outraged, even though I'm not one of them.

Last edited by aquablue; February 7th, 2014 at 01:33 AM.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 01:15 AM   #3744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamtheSTIG View Post
'Chicago boy'... wow how mature... What's wrong with being born and living in Chicago? it looks like a huge clean city, and its reputation over here is outstanding from people who have visited Anyway; is it me or do those massing models seem to be TOO detailed? It seems like Extell are really wanting the cantilever as they show a much more detailed render of that version making it look much more appealing
The non cantilevers massing was submitted by a member of the Student Arts League for demonstration purposes while the cantilevered version was actual drawings submitted by AS+GG to for cantilever approval purposes with the league.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 01:22 AM   #3745
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My friend who's involved in financing was told unequivocally by Extell that it's a massing model. She frequently meets with Barnett.
Is she hot?
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Old February 7th, 2014, 01:30 AM   #3746
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Hot and involved in scraper development, match made in heaven Maybe she should use her charms to get Barnett to build something more 'curvy'
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Old February 7th, 2014, 01:40 AM   #3747
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She's a shiksa so I don't think that the G Man would be interested.
This shegetz right here would be!
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Old February 7th, 2014, 01:50 AM   #3748
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Will the difference between roof heights(1424 to 1550ft) or if there is a cantilever affect how deep they will have to dig or construct the foundation?

If so I'd figure they need to come to a decision sooner rather than later.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 01:52 AM   #3749
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The cantilever is so ungainly looking. They should reject it, it's gross. It's not in any way 'artistic'. Let's hope they see the light, it needs to be dropped for the good of the ASL.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 01:56 AM   #3750
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Are you serious?
I was if anyone cared to do it. Since only one other person has, then... um... no... no, I'm not serious.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 02:35 AM   #3751
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As someone who DOES have Asperger's, I find your post very offensive. Most people with Asperger's are smarter than average and are better people than average.

Get ****ed.
That would explain a lot.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 06:00 PM   #3752
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I was if anyone cared to do it. Since only one other person has, then... um... no... no, I'm not serious.
Hey, I thought it was a good idea. Certainly better than these grown men making fools of themselves.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 06:50 PM   #3753
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Quote:
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I highly doubt that they'll walk away from $25m (if not more).
They're art students.

They already walked away from stable careers and a worthwhile contribution to society.

I'M KIDDING, I'm kidding. Relax..
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Old February 7th, 2014, 08:32 PM   #3754
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They're art students.

They already walked away from stable careers and a worthwhile contribution to society.

I'M KIDDING, I'm kidding. Relax..
Let the artists from that school decorate this tower or do some interior work.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 11:47 PM   #3755
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the cantilever is the only thing that makes this tower interesting
i will reserve my judgement for later, hoping it's a massing model as seems to be the consensus now but even so, you get a general idea of what they are going with here, and that's hard angular lines, emphasis on verticality etc...so the cantilever is absolutely necessary in my mind if this doesnt want to be yet another glass box
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Old February 7th, 2014, 11:49 PM   #3756
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I'm all for something more interesting than another glass box.
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Old February 10th, 2014, 01:53 AM   #3757
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Extell, the Art Students League and Markand Thakar
http://paintinglifestories.blogspot....d-markand.html



What’s more important, painting another so-so still life in your golden years or working with a bunch of righteous zealots who are trying to resurrect a 138-year-old dying art institution in New York City? Right now, I’m leaning toward the former.

For the past few months, I have gotten caught up in what seems like a very worthy cause, saving The Art Students League of New York from the “Evil Empire” of corporate America. But has it been worth it? If successful, would the end justify the means? I’m not so sure anymore.

Although its theoretical arguments are far superior, the “rebel camp” at the League is severely outmanned and outgunned by Gary Barnett, the 57-year-old founder and president of Extell Development Co., whose father was a Rabbi and a Talmudic scholar. Barnett is tearing up West 57th Street with his mega skyscraper projects and tearing down anything that stands in his way.

The aptly named Board of Control that currently rules the membership of the League with an iron fist has done nothing to stop him. It has been using its bully pulpit to browbeat members into voting “yes” to Extell’s $31.8 million proposal to cantilever one-third of its 74-story apartment tower over the League building, which is just half a block from Extell's other recently completed skyscraper across from Carnegie Hall. Many League members consider Extell’s offer a chintzy “tip for services rendered” – maybe 3 to 4 percent of the amount Extell stands to gain by building its cantilever over the League.

The cantilevered condominium apartment tower would sit at the top of the city’s tallest building and be suspended 30 floors above the League. The skyscraper, with or without the cantilever, will have a Nordstrom department store at its base and a hotel. It could rise as high as 1,550 feet, if Extell decides to follow its original proposal. I can envision a scenario where the billionaire foreign investors who buy $90 million condos in this tower might accidentally drop potted plants and champagne bottles onto the glass roof of the League building from their sky lounges 1,400 feet above if the cantilever is built.

The developer has refused to allow the members of the Art Students League to see the final plans for this humongous cantilever before they vote on the future of their beloved institution. But at least one “residential lounge open to the sky” is planned for the 85th floor. And there is talk of an observation tower at the very top.

Extell will need to pull out all the stops to sell its multimillion-dollar apartments in the sky. Without the cantilever, a far classier 1,000-foot skyscraper that is going up just north on West 58th Street would block Extell’s views of Central Park, which seems to be the only selling point for any of these giant apartment projects on West 57th Street. I would advise all you foreign investors to just walk three blocks north to the park. I guarantee you a far more pleasurable experience than a view from a sealed glass window 1,400 feet above skyscraper-shrouded greenery.

You might have already ascertained that I’m not an objective observer in this apparent campaign to destroy another historic New York cultural institution of no consequence to the super-rich who buy and sell art like dry goods. I’m a life member of The Art Students League of New York, and that and the $1.25 reduced-fare for seniors will get me a ride on the bus and subway. But, boy, it’s hard not to feel that our Board has a lot to gain from helping Extell achieve its objectives.

Since springing this cantilever deal on the members in October, it’s been one big headache after another because of the Board’s incessant propaganda blitz -- in the building, via emails and the post office, and on the telephone to members. Low-paid staff members are pressed into telemarketing service, making multiple calls to 2,000 members about the vote. The Board has plastered the walls of the League with “vote yes” posters while those who oppose the cantilever deal are prohibited from putting up even one little “vote no” poster. And all this from what has been a democratically constituted institution run “by artists for artists” since its founding in 1875. So much for democracy in the age of the real estate oligarchs.

And our Board of Control is so eager to take the money and run that it has ceded all risk assessments to Extell itself and has performed no study of the potential environmental hazards facing League students and staff during the five-year construction project right next door. Don’t worry, Extell will take care of us, the Board tells the 2,500 art students who register every month for League classes, which are offered seven days and five evenings a week. Everything is written down in black and white in the agreement, the Board says. “If anything bad happens, Extell has our back. So don’t worry, just keep attending classes.”

A ragtag little group called ASL Unite (http://aslunite.org/) has been formed by one valiant crusader named Richard Caraballo to fight Extell and to reform the League’s governance. You would laugh at the pathetic attempts made by his severely underfinanced and outgunned rebel group to fight the good fight. Two weeks ago, a handful of supporters worked from 5 p.m Sunday to 4 a.m. Monday and then from 11 a.m. Monday to midnight to manually prepare a mass mailing to 2,000 League members of a six-page letter stuffed into flimsy envelopes that wouldn’t seal properly and with mailing labels that weren’t pre-scored and had to be trimmed with scissors. And 66 cent and 4 cent postage stamps had to be purchased at the post office and placed manually on each envelope. Several trips with bags stuffed with envelopes had to be made to the all-night main post office. I’m sure my DNA was on a couple of letters from the paper cuts I suffered. We can’t for the life of us get a pro bono lawyer to take on our case. Who wants to tangle with Extell?

Well, that’s enough. You get the picture. I get the picture. But I’m really curious to know what Extell will do if by some miracle the members of the League vote “no” in the face of all the pressure from our Board and the League’s signed-on 63 instructor-artists to vote “yes.” I’ll soon find out. The vote is this Wednesday.

During the present contentious battle within The Art Students League over Extell's cantilever deal, I began thinking about a wonderful artist named Markand Thakar, who dedicated a fair amount of time in the last 30 years of his life trying to save the League membership from itself. Of course he was unsuccessful. Like ASL Unite, he had no money, no power and no charisma, just a little newsletter he called “The Skunk,” which he distributed at every League meeting from around 1980 until his death in 2012 at the age of 82.

Markand arrived early at those meetings and took a seat in the back row, handing out copies of “The Skunk” to anybody who wanted one. Not very many did. Markand was a short, stocky man with a bushy beard, which went from black to gray over the years. He wore horn-rimmed glasses that seemed a bit large for his face. Occasionally Markand stood up at the meetings to voice his opinion, but he was always shouted down by members of the Board.

It was Markand’s committed duty to remind members that it was they who ran the League, not the Board of Control. Every one of his newsletters documented the latest assault by our leaders on the democratic principles of the League and its Constitution. Sadly, Markand’s telling exposes were ignored by the rest of us, and it remained “business as usual” in the League’s executive offices -- until Caraballo and ASL Unite came along in the last four months.

Markand served on the Board of Control as Treasurer in the early 1970s and he had a lot to say about the League’s governance in issues of his newsletter that he published two or three years after we sold our air rights to Extell for $23.1 million in 2005.

In one newsletter he said the League lost over $13 million dollars in a two-year period. “Despite the loss of those big bucks -- this year the League's salaries have increased by close to $200,000. And it appears that the huge expenditures for credit card and petty cash have been listed (no doubt unintentionally) under ‘miscellaneous expenses.’ The League is supposed to be a not for profit organization,” Markand wrote. “Although it is losing money… it is giving increases to its obviously non-productive, apparently incompetent, money managers and administration -- much like Wall Street's bankers.”

In discussing League elections following the air rights sale in 2005, Markand wrote:

“The League has elections, and it appears that everyone benefiting economically from the way the League is run, is happy with their outcome -- despite there being virtually no real choice of candidates. For the good of the League and the vitality of its democratic base, it is imperative that the present administration talk to at least a few dissidents - and assist them in running for office…Unless you have an active membership at the League, it will be impossible to gather its support -- in the event that the stability … and perhaps even the welfare of the League, is again being jeopardized.”

At one meeting, Markand told members about “an extraordinary expenditure of $300,000…during the same past year that the League had lost millions. In addition, the membership was advised that all the League's expenditures were subject to the scrutiny of any and all interested parties -- which, of course, includes all League members, as well as non-members…A former President (now a current Board member) was so incensed by these disclosures that he blurted out that SKUNK stinks, and inferred that it was a muckraking publication.

“Having been denounced as a muck-raking publication, SKUNK requires a rebuttal. SKUNK is an investigative publication -- and its only goal is to cause the League to be run as the unequivocally democratic institution it is constituted to be. By doing so, SKUNK believes that it will have a chance to regain its former status as a respected major art organization -- with an international reputation as such. It boggles the mind to think that anyone involved with the League, including the instructor-artists, would not concur with SKUNK's objectives.”

The same message is being preached to the choir today by ASL Unite.

My favorite book in the Bible is the one attributed to Ecclesiastes, because the verses therein so perfectly capture my own pessimistic view of human existence on this little cosmic anomaly of ours called the planet Earth: And one well-known verse perfectly captures the situation at the venerable Art Students League, which has given me succor lo these past 30 plus years: “To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the Heaven. A time to be born and a time to die.”

There are so many great causes to fight for and donate money to, including Verizon’s determined campaign to give me faster Internet service at slightly higher rates that even I can afford. What’s the point of trying to save the Art Students League or the Planet when you are pressured to support so many equally worthy appeals?
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Old February 10th, 2014, 03:53 AM   #3758
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I hope they vote no but again, I doubt they will. Interesting they're thinking about adding an observation deck, that's news. This tower might end up taller than we think.
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Old February 10th, 2014, 06:48 AM   #3759
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If THAT is the design Extell really deserves all the crap people can give it... the other towers at least have at least a great aesthetic quality.... 432 is deceptively plain but elegant and not overpowering. 117 Central Park West looks a lot like the "Stairway to Heaven" billing it has received...looks like a fantastic work of art in itself. 220 Central Park West is gloriously contemporary but old fashioned, limestone classic.

THIS is a screwed up giant glass box that has cantilever suspension gimmickry but no heart, no soul. That's why I can't get all excited about this tower, and the beautiful buildings it would overpower in its overwhelming "bigness for the mere sake of bigness" . It's big, and has little else to go for it... this late in the game Extell better be holding back in reserve that what will be built is a masterpiece, not merely a humongous phallus to honoring excess by screwing everyone else.
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Old February 10th, 2014, 12:16 PM   #3760
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I agree with citybooster this building except for the fact that we haven't received any renders yet. In it's current design it's a giant middle finger to the whole neighborhood One57 included, it is really late in the game so why the hell haven't they released renders, are they really so fraking investing in the damn cantilever that they won't release renderings until the whole fiasco is resolved?
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