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Supertalls Discussions of projects under construction between 300-599m/1,000-1,999ft tall.
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Old March 1st, 2014, 01:16 AM   #3921
Ghostface79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunser View Post
Yeah well, whose fault is that Gary? This project has been a PR desaster from the beginning!
I obviously side with Barnett on this issue, and quite honestly it takes a dick like him to shut down those Nimby *******s who pick and chose their little pet projects.
Now as far as this tower, he can only blame himself, I can't think of another project that has been more confusing/annoying than this one (maybe at the exception of 1WTC).
If there's a positive it's that he pretty much confirmed what we've been speculating in saying that "criticism is based on premature and incomplete drawings and faulty information". It seems less probable now that this horror we've been seeing is what will be built (at least I hope). But come one Gary, release the renderings and let's move on already.
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Old March 1st, 2014, 01:28 AM   #3922
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I obviously side with Barnett on this issue, and quite honestly it takes a dick like him to shut down those Nimby *******s who pick and chose their little pet projects.
Now as far as this tower, he can only blame himself, I can't think of another project that has been more confusing/annoying than this one (maybe at the exception of 1WTC).
If there's a positive it's that he pretty much confirmed what we've been speculating in saying that "criticism is based on premature and incomplete drawings and faulty information". It seems less probable now that this horror we've been seeing is what will be built (at least I hope). But come one Gary, release the renderings and let's move on already.
I agree, I don't even care about the height anymore. I just want those damn renderings to be released so we can all sit back.
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Old March 1st, 2014, 01:31 AM   #3923
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Old March 1st, 2014, 03:33 AM   #3924
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This is the quote from the article that got to me:

Quote:
What possible purpose, other than spite, would this advice serve? The building will still be built, just as tall, but it would hurt Nordstrom and Extell needlessly, affecting the expanded floor plate essential for modern department stores and providing more attractive floor plans for the apartments above.
Cryptic. Weren't we under the assumption the cantilever would mean a shorter height. Barnett seems the suggest that's not the case.
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Old March 1st, 2014, 03:41 AM   #3925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
This is the quote from the article that got to me:



Cryptic. Weren't we under the assumption the cantilever would mean a shorter height. Barnett seems the suggest that's not the case.
I think by "just as tall" he means still at 1430 feet and not 1550... at least that's what I'm guessing, I could be and hopefully am wrong.
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 02:21 AM   #3926
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Probably going to stay ~1,400ft:

Sniping at the Supertowers

Quote:
Barnett went on to say that he had the “right” to build an even larger building but decided not to. “We like to think we’re contributing to the art of the city,” he said to more hissing. “Art is in the eye of the beholder.”
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 04:34 AM   #3927
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Originally Posted by hunser View Post
Probably going to stay ~1,400ft:

Sniping at the Supertowers
You're probably right but I think he had the possibility at one point to go over 1550'... I'm gonna hope, but at the same time doubt that's what he meant
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 04:36 AM   #3928
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I definitely don't think this tower will go 1550' but... I also don't think it will be 1423' either. My best guesstimating is that the Nordstrom will end up ~ 1455'
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 05:46 AM   #3929
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Yea I don't see how he could pass up the opportunity to market the highest roof hight in the western hemisphere by only 30'.
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 08:13 AM   #3930
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Originally Posted by Vertical_Gotham View Post
I definitely don't think this tower will go 1550' but... I also don't think it will be 1423' either. My best guesstimating is that the Nordstrom will end up ~ 1455'
I agree... they did add a very small amount of square feet so that could change the height a bit. If it ends up taller than Sears (as much as I love Sears) I'll be super happy.
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 08:42 AM   #3931
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I agree... they did add a very small amount of square feet so that could change the height a bit. If it ends up taller than Sears (as much as I love Sears) I'll be super happy.
Yep... maybe Hudson Spire gets built and there is another tower in the Central Park area or Hudson Yards/ West Side area that goes taller but until then why stop short of topping Sears/ Willis Tower? Be bold and do it, Extell!
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 03:20 PM   #3932
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Watch this tower being a couple of feet shorter than Sears. My guess: 1,443ft.
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 03:21 PM   #3933
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I agree... they did add a very small amount of square feet so that could change the height a bit. If it ends up taller than Sears (as much as I love Sears) I'll be super happy.
Being happy that a building constructed in 2014 will be taller than a building constructed in 1974 is a little weird. When Sears was built, it was the tallest in the world and the tallest ever. A title it held for ages. It's place in history is secured. In a thousand years, when the Coca Cola Tower tops out at fifty-two miles and becomes the tallest structure on Earth Sector Seven, it will be a part of an unbroken chain of world's tallest that will stretch back to the Pyramids. And on that chain is the Sears Tower.

New York, and America, should be aiming for Burj Khalifa heights. Even if it makes the current crop of proposed supertalls a little less impressive. Mediocrity isn't in the American dictionary. Aim a little higher and amazing things will happen.
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 03:26 PM   #3934
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Being happy that a building constructed in 2014 will be taller than a building constructed in 1974 is a little weird. When Sears was built, it was the tallest in the world and the tallest ever. A title it held for ages. It's place in history is secured. In a thousand years, when the Coca Cola Tower tops out at fifty-two miles and becomes the tallest structure on Earth Sector Seven, it will be a part of an unbroken chain of world's tallest that will stretch back to the Pyramids. And on that chain is the Sears Tower.

New York, and America, should be aiming for Burj Khalifa heights. Even if it makes the current crop of proposed supertalls a little less impressive. Mediocrity isn't in the American dictionary. Aim a little higher and amazing things will happen.
Then, my god, point us to a city here that is growing so rapidly that is needs the sq. footage of the entire WTC complex in one building?

I've said this time and time again, you build large buildings as a developer to cash in on demand. You don't do it if there are already 3 or 4 large buildings, the returns diminish, because demand is not inelastic: there's only so many uses you can put in a building.

If we want to see a 600m plus building, that would mean either losing existing office stock (and that isn't happening currently - in fact, a lot is being added) or significant growth in population/employers (happening, but not fast enough to justify millions of square feet of office space).

Just let it go.
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 04:06 PM   #3935
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Originally Posted by SomeKindOfBug View Post
Being happy that a building constructed in 2014 will be taller than a building constructed in 1974 is a little weird. When Sears was built, it was the tallest in the world and the tallest ever. A title it held for ages. It's place in history is secured. In a thousand years, when the Coca Cola Tower tops out at fifty-two miles and becomes the tallest structure on Earth Sector Seven, it will be a part of an unbroken chain of world's tallest that will stretch back to the Pyramids. And on that chain is the Sears Tower. New York, and America, should be aiming for Burj Khalifa heights. Even if it makes the current crop of proposed supertalls a little less impressive. Mediocrity isn't in the American dictionary. Aim a little higher and amazing things will happen.
Honestly I don't think I would like to go over 2000' for NYC and I don't think that day would ever come for our city for a tower over 2000'. America does not need to build a tower as high as the burj, but believe it if it was important to our country we could build a dozen of them today.

If there is a city here in America that feels the need to ever build such a tower, it should be some other city that should do it upgrade their standing and psyche. If the Burj like tower where to be built in NYC it better not be built in Manhattan, such a tower would need to have distance from the manhattan skyline. Such a tower would have to be built somewhere in Brooklyn, Queens or Jersey City and I don't see that happening in our lifetime anyway.
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Last edited by Vertical_Gotham; March 2nd, 2014 at 04:29 PM.
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 04:57 PM   #3936
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He seems to think Sears Tower was built for PATRIOTISM and economics didn't matter because AMERICA!
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 05:20 PM   #3937
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Sears Tower was built because of ambition and ego. If you're fine with economics being the sole driving force behind tall buildings then enjoy your slow and inevitable slide into insignificance. I'm not American, so it's water off a duck's back as far as I'm concerned. It's just weird to see Americans being so pleased with 2nd best. It's unraveling a lot of my expectations about the nation.
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 06:21 PM   #3938
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So who's got a camera? I want to see the big hole in the ground.
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 06:31 PM   #3939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeKindOfBug View Post
Sears Tower was built because of ambition and ego. If you're fine with economics being the sole driving force behind tall buildings then enjoy your slow and inevitable slide into insignificance. I'm not American, so it's water off a duck's back as far as I'm concerned. It's just weird to see Americans being so pleased with 2nd best. It's unraveling a lot of my expectations about the nation.
So with all the economic, military and political indicators we have, having the tallest building should be a significant factor in America's standing in the world? it might have been the case in the 60's and 70's but not now. As a proud New Yorker I'd be embarrassed if at this stage we saw it as a priority to build the tallest tower in the world when there's so much more to achieve as a society.
Now I'm not a height enthusiast like most on this site so it might be even less of a priority for me but as long as great designs pop up all over the city and we keep building taller, NYC shouldn't be looking to copy other developing cities.
Megatalls will happen when the city needs them, just like supertalls now seem to be the norm in the city's skyline.
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 10:31 PM   #3940
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Originally Posted by SomeKindOfBug View Post
Being happy that a building constructed in 2014 will be taller than a building constructed in 1974 is a little weird. When Sears was built, it was the tallest in the world and the tallest ever. A title it held for ages. It's place in history is secured. In a thousand years, when the Coca Cola Tower tops out at fifty-two miles and becomes the tallest structure on Earth Sector Seven, it will be a part of an unbroken chain of world's tallest that will stretch back to the Pyramids. And on that chain is the Sears Tower.

New York, and America, should be aiming for Burj Khalifa heights. Even if it makes the current crop of proposed supertalls a little less impressive. Mediocrity isn't in the American dictionary. Aim a little higher and amazing things will happen.
There is no need to aim higher just to take dangerous bets of risk capital on follies designed to make a statement to the world. If the USA needs to do that again someday, it will, but that time is not here yet. Right now, we build what we need and what the banks are willing to lend based on a good economic case. Anyway, Towers are nothing regarding America's world's standing and most americans don't care about towers in terms of nationalism. Most world innovation takes place in a flat valley in california, not in a tall tower in Dubai. Most americans live in low densitiy suburbs and dream of a vacation in Paris or Venice (or somewhere else low-rise and cute), not Shenzhen. Most people vote in representatives that don't care that much about flashy towers or urban might. That is who is running the country, rural and suburban people with rural and suburban priorities. There is no collective goal to produce flashy monuments to america all over the place. The business leaders aren't interested in potential ruin and tower-fetish types are a very small minority. Bottom line: No megatall towers until the need arises, deal with it.
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Last edited by aquablue; March 3rd, 2014 at 12:13 AM.
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