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Old September 1st, 2012, 06:50 PM   #481
Hudson11
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the rejected design : Supertall mixed use (unknown location) by SHoP Architects





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Old September 1st, 2012, 07:28 PM   #482
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LOL, they put it in a fantasy city in those renders. I can see Shanghai's Jinn Mao and Dubai's Burj al Arab
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Old September 1st, 2012, 07:40 PM   #483
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I hope the design will be something simpler and more minimalist...
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Old September 1st, 2012, 07:46 PM   #484
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I 1000% agree with you. Minimalism is what the skyline needs
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Old September 1st, 2012, 07:52 PM   #485
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I just hope it's something worthy of Central Park's skyline. It's height and location will allow it to stand out easily so hopefully it won't be bland.
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Old September 1st, 2012, 08:43 PM   #486
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Originally Posted by RobertWalpole View Post
I think that Extell probably has the plans finalized, but won't reveal them until One57 is nearly sold out, since it doesn't want its two towers to compete with each other for sales.

The design that I look forward to seeing (and which should be revealed soon) is the new design for 425 Park.
How tall is 425 park supposed to be
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Old September 1st, 2012, 09:43 PM   #487
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No one knows. Probably around 250m. Definitely not a supertall.
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Old September 4th, 2012, 12:55 AM   #488
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From a June 28, 2012 Bloomberg Article with regards to construction timeline.

Quote:
Construction on Extell’s tower may start in the first quarter of next year and be completed in 2018, Barnett said in a statement.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...eet-tower.html
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Old September 7th, 2012, 07:46 PM   #489
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Morton Williams' sign is up at its new location, 140 W 57th, as of 7 Sep. Hopefully, their move will be completed by the end of the autumn, and the last structure on this site will be down by the end of 2012!

Last edited by RobertWalpole; September 7th, 2012 at 10:21 PM.
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Old September 8th, 2012, 10:16 PM   #490
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nice. another obstacle out of the way.
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Old September 8th, 2012, 10:30 PM   #491
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Any idea when we might get a render of the official design ? Has it been chosen yet ?
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Old September 9th, 2012, 12:46 AM   #492
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All we know is that Herzon & de Muron won the competition. I'm sure that it has been designed by now. The design probably will be released before sales start at 432 Park.

Why Brokers Study Chinese

By ALEXEI BARRIONUEVO

Published: September 6, 2012


WITH a torrent of money flowing into the United States from China, some savvy real estate brokers are trying to jump in farther upstream to better position themselves to win new clients.

One57, left, set aside apartment 88 for Chinese buyers; perceived as lucky, it’s in contract.


When the New York market dried up at the end of 2008, Sotheby’s International Realty turned its focus to Asia. The company dispatched one of its prominent brokers, Nikki Field, to travel to Asia to develop relationships with potential clients. She and her real estate partner, Kevin Brown, began making about four trips a year there, with a growing focus on mainland China.

“We wanted to get out ahead of the world’s investment flow,” Ms. Field said.

And with good reason. The explosion of wealth in China has created myriad new billionaires eager to diversify their holdings with real estate investments in the United States. Often, they are looking to give their children a plush crash pad for boarding school or college, or a place to live in when they start careers and families. Many wealthy Chinese are also looking for places to invest where they can preserve their wealth and avoid the rising inflation in major Chinese cities like Shanghai and Beijing.

No city in the United States has been a bigger beneficiary of the Chinese buying wave than New York.

So to some brokers, it has made sense to more aggressively seek out Chinese buyers on their own turf.

Since 2008, Ms. Field said, she has been on an at times exasperating journey to understand China. She started taking Mandarin classes about two years ago. More recently she and Mr. Brown have been attending classes in Mandarin and business culture at the State University of New York’s Confucius Institute for Business, a program that began in early 2011 and that is seeing a lot of interest from real estate brokers eager to sell to the Chinese.

While other major foreign buying groups in New York — the Brazilians, the Russians and other Europeans — all require some cultural understanding for brokers to be successful, no group has posed more of a challenge than the Chinese, brokers say.

The old way of doing business is no longer enough, Ms. Field said. “We as Americans always expected anyone to adapt to our business style, and they did,” she said. “That is no longer true with the Chinese. There are too many of them, they have too much power. We truly must adapt to their style of business in order to do deals.”

Not all brokers agree that regular trips to China and classes in Chinese business protocol are necessary to win deals in Manhattan.

Janet Wang, a broker at the Corcoran Group, who along with her colleague Carrie Chiang, make up one of the more successful real estate teams doing deals with the Chinese in New York, said that they have politely declined invitations by banks and organizations to travel to China to talk about American real estate.

“I have yet to see how successful those cold approaches and road shows are,” Ms. Wang said. “Chinese, especially on the high end, rely heavily on the circle of their trusted friends and family members and people they have done business with in the past.”

Dolly Lenz, the vice chairman of Prudential Douglas Elliman, said that classes in Mandarin and Chinese culture aren’t necessarily the answer.

“In my opinion, that won’t be what will work in the end, but it can’t hurt,” Ms. Lenz said. “What matters to them is trust. And they expect you to be on the ball and know everything.”

Ms. Lenz hasn’t made a trip to Asia in six years. She said she continues to rely on the web of contacts she made during an eight-year span when she made some 25 trips to Asia.

Still, she is benefiting from the Chinese buying wave. Half of her clients now come from Asia, many of them from China. That is twice as many as she had two years ago, she said.

Chinese billionaires continue to buy high-end properties in buildings like the Time Warner Center, 15 Central Park West and the newest, One57. But in May and June she saw something different: an “almost overwhelming volume” of calls and sales driven largely by interest in apartments ranging from $3 million to $6 million — what Ms. Lenz calls the “middle market” in Manhattan.

Chinese buyers are also no longer paying all cash as they were a few years ago. In recent months, several Chinese buyers have financed their purchases, some with United States-based loans, Ms. Lenz said. They seem to be leveraging in New York so they can also buy properties in Los Angeles, London or other cities, she said.


On her trips to China, Ms. Field has noticed a change in the conversation among potential clients. “When I first went over there five years ago, my presentations all had to be about return,” she said.
“Everyone was looking for returns. Two years ago, return questions almost dried up. Now it is all about wealth preservation. They are anticipating a bubble” in China, she added.

For Ms. Field’s team, that concern has translated into growing sales. Meetings with 37 potential Chinese clients this year resulted in nine signed contracts or closings on properties in Manhattan, at prices ranging from $3.5 million to $50 million. Most of those were at One57, she said.

Groups of Chinese are making their way to New York for house-hunting tours. A Mandarin-English luxury lifestyle magazine, YUE, is organizing a real estate conference in New York in October at which Ms. Field is scheduled to speak. More than 150 wealthy Chinese that Sotheby’s has reached out to are expected to attend, she said.

After five years of traveling to Asia, Ms. Field acknowledges that she is still not fluent in Mandarin and has “only scratched the surface on the choreography” required to be successful with the mainland Chinese. There is proper protocol with greetings to consider, welcome gifts, seating and who eats when at meals. There are nuances related to distinguishing business time and social time.

Understanding Chinese negotiating styles has been a challenge, she said.

But nothing is more puzzling to brokers and non-Chinese sellers than feng shui, the Chinese belief system that often dictates a final purchase decision. Apartments need to be feng shui-friendly. The layout of the apartment — which direction it faces, where the kitchen and bathrooms are — are all factors. Ms. Wang said some of her clients have a family feng shui counselor “on speed dial” and won’t hesitate to fly him or her in from China with a compass to evaluate a potential purchase.

Numbers are a particular focus. The number eight sounds like the word for “prosperity,” and that is one reason some of the full-floor apartments at One57 were sold early to Chinese buyers for about $50 million apiece. The Extell Development Company, which is building One57, specifically set aside apartment 88 for Chinese buyers, and it is under contract to a Chinese buyer, Ms. Field said.

Developers like Extell and the Related Companies have tried to make buildings feng shui-friendly. The designer Clodagh created peaceful, harmonious lobbies at the Caledonia in West Chelsea and at 225 Rector in Battery Park City that have helped make those buildings popular with Chinese buyers, said Sherry Tobak, a senior vice president of the Related Companies.

But some buildings simply face an uphill battle. At 995 Fifth Avenue, the former Stanhope Hotel, Ms. Field said that Chinese buyers in Beijing and Shanghai initially were excited about an 8,000-square-foot apartment she was selling for $30 million — until they realized it was a restoration, not a new building. "They were very concerned about past lives that were inhabiting the building," Ms. Field said.

A development at the former Drake Hotel site, 425 Park Avenue, which will be the city’s tallest residential building (and some say the country’s) when it opens, is not likely to have many Chinese residents. The number four sounds like the word for “death” in Chinese. Both Ms. Field and Ms. Lenz said they haven’t received any calls from the Chinese, although wealthy Russians keep calling.

But knowing that four is not a good number to have in an address is the easy part. “I have talked to my tutors about this, hoping to get a road map, so I would understand what would be approved as good feng shui versus bad, but there is no road map,” Ms. Field said.

Ms. Field is off to Asia again in two weeks, this time on a swing through Beijing, Shanghai, Singapore and Hong Kong. In Hong Kong, Sotheby’s auction house will be selling art and wine. She is expecting the event to attract a lot of high-net-worth Asians from the region.

“It is drawing bigger numbers than our auction houses have in the past for any sales,” Ms. Field said. “They are buying art and also looking for the houses to put the art in.”

Last edited by RobertWalpole; September 9th, 2012 at 12:56 AM.
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Old September 9th, 2012, 01:39 PM   #493
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Herzo Meuron?

Hi Robert,
Are you sure that herzo Meuron is confirmed? i say this because with the new entry of Nordstroom in this project, Gary has say that Nordstroom will be included in the choice of architect.
In the next two months i have an official info. that 56 leonard costruction restart.
About Libeskind elad madison tower, i pray that costruction start shortly.
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Old September 9th, 2012, 02:30 PM   #494
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Hi, Giorgio. It was widely reported that HdM won the competition, and then SHoP's rejected proposal was leaked. (See below.) Barnett's subsequent statements when Nordstrom signed on appeared contradictory, but perhaps he was referring to the architects who will design the store, which would make sense since the Nordstrom store will be a condominium unit which the store owns


PS: 56 Leonard, 400 PAS, and BIG's pyramid will all be rising at the same time. Hopefully, 1 Madison will join them.


www.observer.com

Gary Barnett on How He Chooses His Designers and the 1,250-Foot Starchitect Tower Planned for Broadway and 57th
By Matt Chaban 5/10 5:14pm

The new skyline, come 2020? 432 Park is at left, One57 is just right of One Bryant Park, and 225 West 57th Street is just to the right of that, then 15 Penn Plaza and, on the farthest right, Hudson Yards.

One57 looms in the distance—imagine something even taller.

When Gary Barnett builds, he wants everything to be “the best,” as the Extell exec made clear in our recent profile. Bigger is not always better, but it certainly does not hurt, especially in Manhattan. That is part of the appeal of Mr. Barnett’s One57—not only will the views be dead-center on Central Park, a fact Mr. Barnett keenly brags about, but there are also the bragging rights of having the tallest residential tower in the Western Hemisphere. At 1,005 feet, it beats Frank Gehry’s 8 Spruce Street by more than 100 feet.

But this is New York, and the record will never hold for long, as competitors like the MoMA tower and 432 Park start to rise. But Mr. Barnett has an ace up his sleeve just down the block, a large development site on Broadway running between 57th and 58th streets. The lot, site of the former B.F. Goodrich Building is nearly twice as large as One57′s, and more importantly the tower could be many hundred feet taller, as well, as Mr. Barnett continues to assemble air rights and properties, one of his favorite parts of the business.

For this stratospheric project he also turned to several top-shelf designers, none of whom Extell has ever worked with before.
As reported in our profile, Swiss starchitects Herzog & de Meuron won an invited competition to design a tower that could rise to 1,250 feet or more:

And, according to sources outside the developer, Mr. Barnett has tapped another Pritzker firm, Herzog & de Meuron, of 40 Bond fame, to build a 1,250-foot residential tower at Broadway and 57th Street. Yes, One57 was not enough. When it stops being the best, this project, and so many others, will be ready to carry on the legacy. When asked about the project, Mr. Barnett did not deny it, though he noted that, “Nothing has been settled, not the height, not the architect.” So be it. Perhaps now that Harry Macklowe’s 432 Park is climbing toward 1,395 feet, maybe Mr. Barnett wants to build a 1,400-foot tower.

What there was not room to say was the rest of the impressive firms under consideration: Herzog & de Meuron beat out fellow European Pritzker winners Norman Foster, Richard Rogers and Jean Nouvel and local favorites SHoP, according to our sources. The tower, as specified in the competition brief called for a multi-story base of offices with residences and a hotel on top, a top-of-the-line mixed use tower.

As Mr. Barnett made clear, any of this could change, but it shows a continued commitment to high-end design at the very least. When asked about how he chooses his designers—without making mention of this project in particular—Mr. Barnett gave some insight into how this little competition might have been put together.

“We like to work with the firms we know, we know they can do the work,” Mr. Barnett said walking down 57th Street between the One57 site and the showroom just across Fifth Avenue. “But sometimes we want to give somebody else a chance, we’ve seen their work and we figure, why not give them a shot.”

Mr. Barnett said that quality design “probably pays for itself” but sometimes he does wonder if it is worth it. “I sometimes question our commitment to design,” he said. “These architects, the good ones, they can be difficult sometimes, but the product is definitely better. I look at the guys putting up just total crap, and I wonder if they don’t make the same return.”

Still, Mr. Barnett stressed that since he prefers the creative aspect of development above, or at least in equal measure to, the money, that probably helps explain his continued interest in what his buildings look like. “It’s just more interesting this way, and it certainly helps with the marketing,” he said.

Not every project warrants a starchitect, though. “We’re not going to use them every time, like on an 80/20 project, or some of the hotels, the margins are just too tight, and it doesn’t make sense,” Mr. Barnett said. He cites The Observer‘s complaints about one such project as an example of unreasonable expectations.

So when will this mystery tower rise on Broadway? Mr. Barnett would not say. He certainly has his hands full with four full-scale projects currently in the works. And while Morton Williams has opened a new store at 141 West 57th Street, it has yet to vacate 225 West 57th, the final piece of Mr. Barnett’s colossal puzzle. But as 432 Park begins to rise and One57 continues to sell units at record prices, it seems like only a matter of time before something is underway off of Columbus Circle.

Last edited by RobertWalpole; September 9th, 2012 at 09:11 PM.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 05:09 AM   #495
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This would be interesting to see it get build.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 01:46 PM   #496
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so no design yet and the height is not known either, yet the site is under preparation, that's unusual for a building in new york where everything is approved and controlled three times before a building gets a go.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 01:53 PM   #497
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Quote:
Perhaps now that Harry Macklowe’s 432 Park is climbing toward 1,395 feet, maybe Mr. Barnett wants to build a 1,400-foot tower.
another race for the sky?
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Old September 12th, 2012, 03:20 PM   #498
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425 Park shall be the tallest residential building? That's awesome news. I beg that it is true
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Old September 12th, 2012, 07:31 PM   #499
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No official status on how tall this building going to be ?
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Old September 12th, 2012, 10:54 PM   #500
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http://www.newyorkyimby.com/2012/09/...tral-park.html

this siad the old proposal was 1500 feet?
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