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Old September 11th, 2014, 09:08 AM   #5001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Severiano View Post
I hope it is 1,490 to the roof. I think its about time for America to have a new tallest building, even if it is just by a little. I am a militant roof height guy, so WTC 1 doesn't count, not trying to start an argument just my opinion. The spire height of 1,775 kinda pisses me off. Its like they are trying to set a precedent that no building or spire should be higher than 1,776 feet. I'm not liking where this is going at all.
The 1776 thing is so gimmicky...
What other country worships their founding year that much?
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Old September 11th, 2014, 01:59 PM   #5002
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We don't at all, but if I'm correct the idea of using that height was born after 9/11 during the development phase of the WTC complex.
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Old September 11th, 2014, 02:43 PM   #5003
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Suppose we gotta thank Libeskind for that...
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Old September 11th, 2014, 04:26 PM   #5004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Severiano View Post
I hope it is 1,490 to the roof. I think its about time for America to have a new tallest building, even if it is just by a little. I am a militant roof height guy, so WTC 1 doesn't count, not trying to start an argument just my opinion. The spire height of 1,775 kinda pisses me off. Its like they are trying to set a precedent that no building or spire should be higher than 1,776 feet. I'm not liking where this is going at all.
I agree, really hoping the roof height is 1490.

The spire height is just silly, I have no idea why any builder really cares? 1WTC did it for a reason and that is fine however I do not see why it is relevant for other builders to not go over that number?

It's going to take one person who just doesn't give a hell to break past and then others will follow.
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Old September 12th, 2014, 10:09 AM   #5005
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The foundation for this is about 5 stories deep! It will be a great tower when finally built. The Art Students League building is completely covered by scaffolding.

http://urbanismvsmodernism.blogspot....th-update.html
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Old September 12th, 2014, 04:23 PM   #5006
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A needle tower with a cheating spire
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Old September 12th, 2014, 05:14 PM   #5007
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towerpower123, were you doing a little late night recon in midtown last night??
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Old September 13th, 2014, 06:06 PM   #5008
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Spires dont count, unless they are actually part of the building like the Chrysler Building or Empire State Building. Spires like those on the World Trade Center or Sears Tower dont count because they are just antennas. Roof height should be how buildings are judged with height. Antennas are cool and all but just shouldnt be counted for height.
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Old September 13th, 2014, 08:15 PM   #5009
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That's bullshit, antenna is part of the building and it should be counted in height.
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Old September 13th, 2014, 08:20 PM   #5010
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I disagree with both of you.
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Old September 13th, 2014, 08:38 PM   #5011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkyskunk2 View Post
I disagree with both of you.
....and i agree with you.
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Old September 13th, 2014, 09:10 PM   #5012
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Again that stupid nonsense debate? It feels like the spire vs. roof height battle comes up every time a building with spire gets (close to) under construction.
Ironically this isn't even arguable as we have clear definitions how and why we are measuring buildings. But it seems some guys around here bash spire designs just for the sake of it. If you dislike spires and believe roof height is the only 'real' height, that's fine, but keep it for yourself and don't question the official height measurement over and over again. Or move the debate to another sub-forum and don't drag construction threads off-topic.
Just my 2 cents.
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Old September 13th, 2014, 09:41 PM   #5013
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It has a spire, who cares? The roof is still very high (At least 1490 feet possibly 1550)
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Old September 13th, 2014, 10:29 PM   #5014
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Roof vs spire is about as bad of an argument as subbed vs dubbed.
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Old September 13th, 2014, 11:09 PM   #5015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubai Skyscraper View Post
If you dislike spires and believe roof height is the only 'real' height, that's fine, but keep it for yourself and don't question the official height measurement over and over again..
If you like spires, that's fine, but don't question the right of everyone to count height as they wish and you are certainly wrong if you think you can ask people to keep it to themselves, everyone has the right to express their opinion.

You better don't dare to question "official" measurments or you will be wrong... First of all it's not even legally official everwhere...
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Old September 13th, 2014, 11:39 PM   #5016
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Check this, if antennas or spires should be counted out as a (part of a) tower you should count out the entire Eiffel Tower in Paris or the Tokyo Tower. Shut up about spires and antennas now, please!
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Old September 14th, 2014, 02:08 AM   #5017
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Measure up to the top of the highest coffee machine in the building for all I care. It doesn't make the building itself look any different.

(Also, I think the coffee machine measurement would give a pretty good representation of the highest point intended for long-term stay. Would make it quite easy to determine vanity height, at least).
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Old September 14th, 2014, 02:29 AM   #5018
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Eiffel Tower and Tokyo Tower are completely counted out. They're not buildings.

But I think buildings should be measured by pinnacle height, when there's only air above the highest point, when there's nothing there except sky. Any man made object on top of a building should be counted. Just because antennas are functional doesn't mean it should be ignored.

I understand if people don't count spires and antennas because it doesn't add to the dominance of a building. That's where personal opinion comes in, and my personal opinion might be worthless. I understand that people might just tack on spires and antennas to add height for cheapness, but spires add beauty to a building. Antennas do, too- people don't add them on haphazardly, and we barely add antennas today to buildings.

The CTBUH's problem is that people might add spires for cheap height. So they don't count antennas, but that doesn't make any sense to me. If antennas do not add to a building, why do spires make a difference? Their only difference is function.

A better solution would be to change the vanity rule of thumb from 50%of a building's height to 40%. People don't just add spires to save money with increasing height.

I think people just treat One World Trade Center's vanity height badly because it looks like an antenna. But it makes the building reach 1776 feet, which is the true reason why the CTBUH counted it. Not simply because it's "permanent", or else the discussion would have been resolved much earlier. Also, people realized how many buildings it surpasses with the spire because we've seen how tall it would be without a spire- from #3 to #12.
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Old September 14th, 2014, 10:47 AM   #5019
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No one outside of skyscraper geek websites cares about the pointless spire vs. roof debate, cut it out and let's actually stay on topic.
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Old September 14th, 2014, 09:10 PM   #5020
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Well, in their defense, we ARE on a skyscraper geek website. In fact it's THE skyscraper geek website.
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