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Supertalls Discussions of projects under construction between 300-599m/1,000-1,999ft tall.
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Old April 4th, 2015, 06:52 PM   #5801
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Originally Posted by weidncol View Post
I wouldn't say that. It's only a gentleman's agreement, nothing official.
I can imagine it's nothing official but for now this tower does not exceed 541m and for the meaning of the WTC I think there will be no tallest skyscraper (at least for now) although not official
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Old April 4th, 2015, 08:16 PM   #5802
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Thank you very much for the clarification.That means that all those who build henceforth can not exceed 541 meters ...
It doesn't mean that, maybe they'll come to their senses and stop being dumb and pass the WTC before another developer does.

It's already higher to roof and sits at a higher elevation so will look higher anyway on the skyline.
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Old April 4th, 2015, 08:25 PM   #5803
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I can imagine it's nothing official but for now this tower does not exceed 541m and for the meaning of the WTC I think there will be no tallest skyscraper (at least for now) although not official
as long it is about antennas and spire i can see developers agreeing on keeping it below that height. If roofs get close however there is no sense in gentleman agreements, then it is about money for extra floor space
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Old April 4th, 2015, 08:33 PM   #5804
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a gentlemens' agreement in the business world only lasts if it's profitable for all parties. I bet Gary would have built this sucker as high as the FAA would allow if Extell didn't already have One 57 in their portfolio.
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Old April 4th, 2015, 08:44 PM   #5805
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Trust me, even a 3 000 footer is inevitable in NYC until this century ends. The question isn't if, the question is when[.]
I have to disagree with you here Kanto. From my understanding, the economics of megatall structures don't really add up when the property value is already sky high. Burj and Kingdom Tower will never get out of the red because their entire purpose is to inflate surrounding property prices. That doesn't make sense in Manhattan where nothing gets built unless it'll make a lot of money. Even 1WTC is probably pushing it in terms of cost vs. rentable sq footage. It's not a question of capability or will power, it's a question of efficiency.
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Old April 4th, 2015, 08:54 PM   #5806
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as long it is about antennas and spire i can see developers agreeing on keeping it below that height. If roofs get close however there is no sense in gentleman agreements, then it is about money for extra floor space
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a gentlemens' agreement in the business world only lasts if it's profitable for all parties. I bet Gary would have built this sucker as high as the FAA would allow if Extell didn't already have One 57 in their portfolio.
And this is the one area of building economics where it is realistic for that to happen and for multiple reasons. Even high height-per-floor office towers generally clock in a little lower than luxury residential with ultra-high ceilings. Two-storey loft units or extra vaulted ceilings could easily give 20 foot floor to floor heights, and the enormous unit sizes mean that even a three or four million square foot skyscraper would have relatively few units. This means no application of the "elevator conundrum" or other tongue-in-cheek limits to height/floors/economics, add to it the fact that these aren't your 9-to-5ers. Finally, views. Many [real] people would prefer the palatable views of the 20 to 500 foot range where you can see a lot but you're not a bloody large fraction of a mile away from things. But somebody buying a floor plate for 100 million dollars might just like to have it literally be above everything else at 2,000 feet and not be able to see the relatively gritty reality of the streets.

Here's to the top .5% bringing us a 2,000-foot+ roof
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Old April 4th, 2015, 10:08 PM   #5807
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I have to disagree with you here Kanto. From my understanding, the economics of megatall structures don't really add up when the property value is already sky high. Burj and Kingdom Tower will never get out of the red because their entire purpose is to inflate surrounding property prices. That doesn't make sense in Manhattan where nothing gets built unless it'll make a lot of money. Even 1WTC is probably pushing it in terms of cost vs. rentable sq footage. It's not a question of capability or will power, it's a question of efficiency.
I think the Empire State Building or the Twin Towers were in red too, when they were built, but later, as old property got redeveloped, they pretty much did the same thing Burj Khalifa or the Kingdom Tower plan to do instantaneously - namely raise value of surrounding property. This means that a 3 000 footer in NYC is possible even in today's age. However I don't dare to speculate about the probability of such a building rising in the comming years. It happened in the 1930's, it happened in the 1970's, so it can happen in the 2010's or 2020's too, however I would like to underline can - it can but it doesn't have to, it's a big querstion mark to which I have no answer (and I doubt anybody except of maybe a potential developer of such a building could give an answer to this question)

However, in the post you quoted I wasn't talking about the near future. I was talking about future in general. And when talking about future in general, there is no such thing as "never". It is inevitable that 3 000 footers will one day be as common as 100 footers are today. 3 000 feet might be red today, but in a hundred years they could rise as quickly and cost efficiently as highrises today. There is no such thing as an ultimate height, there will always be a taller building, and a building even taller, and ........ The same is with economic buildings. Trust me, one day a middle income family will be able to build a 3 000 footer with a common family construction load (keep in mind though that I am talking about millenia in the future), "never" doesn't exist when talking about future technology
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Old April 4th, 2015, 11:40 PM   #5808
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I have to disagree with you here Kanto. From my understanding, the economics of megatall structures don't really add up when the property value is already sky high. Burj and Kingdom Tower will never get out of the red because their entire purpose is to inflate surrounding property prices. That doesn't make sense in Manhattan where nothing gets built unless it'll make a lot of money. Even 1WTC is probably pushing it in terms of cost vs. rentable sq footage. It's not a question of capability or will power, it's a question of efficiency.
I totally agree, there will never be any need for a 3000' building in NYC, and it would be too astronomically expensive to boot. Granted never say never but the city will just expand out to Jersey, Brooklyn, Queens etc. before that happens.

I can definitely see some pretty tall buildings in NY's future, maybe higher than the buildings now (at least to the occupied space) but that would just be ridiculous.

NY doesn't need it either, it'll soon be the supertall capital of the world anyway or at least top 3
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Old April 4th, 2015, 11:43 PM   #5809
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I don't think people will built at like 1777 feet to spite the WTC. I think it's very likely future buildings will go several hundred feet higher. Nordstrom just didn't want to be the first to do it so quickly after 1WTC has been completed.

I expect this next century to have buildings much taller than the World Trade Center even in Lower Manhattan.
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Old April 5th, 2015, 12:15 AM   #5810
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I don't think people will built at like 1777 feet to spite the WTC. I think it's very likely future buildings will go several hundred feet higher. Nordstrom just didn't want to be the first to do it so quickly after 1WTC has been completed.

I expect this next century to have buildings much taller than the World Trade Center even in Lower Manhattan.
This century maybe but that's over the next 85 years

The only building in lower Manhattan in the near future to possibly top 1WTC's roof is SHoP's seaport tower at 80 south street which we have not seen the design/height of yet.

The old height figure of 125 Greenwich (1356') could be stretched to top 1WTC's roof at least but I really doubt it'll even go above 400m in the end.

2 and 3WTC will be wonderful additions though.
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Old April 5th, 2015, 12:45 AM   #5811
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perhaps the next buildings in the next century go deep in the earth, because some Terrorist have blow "old manhatten" away...
on the one Hand I admire These high super- oder megatalls...on the other Hand it is like a stupid game for children, that became adults...indeed insane...the world has bigger Problems than These buildings...
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Old April 5th, 2015, 01:41 AM   #5812
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You came on a skyscraper forum for that ramble?
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Old April 5th, 2015, 01:45 AM   #5813
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perhaps the next buildings in the next century go deep in the earth, because some Terrorist have blow "old manhatten" away...
on the one Hand I admire These high super- oder megatalls...on the other Hand it is like a stupid game for children, that became adults...indeed insane...the world has bigger Problems than These buildings...
Just epic. Lol.

Needed a good laugh. Thank you.
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Old April 5th, 2015, 01:46 AM   #5814
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no ramble...i love Skyscrapers...but there is always another side...and indeed...why not building in the deep? new oled will create a light like the sun...i am sure, that the future doesn't goes always upstairs ;-)
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Old April 5th, 2015, 02:15 AM   #5815
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I totally agree, there will never be any need for a 3000' building in NYC, and it would be too astronomically expensive to boot. Granted never say never but the city will just expand out to Jersey, Brooklyn, Queens etc. before that happens.

I can definitely see some pretty tall buildings in NY's future, maybe higher than the buildings now (at least to the occupied space) but that would just be ridiculous.

NY doesn't need it either, it'll soon be the supertall capital of the world anyway or at least top 3
200 years ago many thought people would never fly. 100 years ago many thought people would never leave Earth. Trust me, the words "future" and "never" hate each other
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Old April 5th, 2015, 06:07 AM   #5816
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You came on a skyscraper forum for that ramble?
You can always tell someone is truly crazy if they type with randomly capitalized words.
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Old April 6th, 2015, 11:19 PM   #5817
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The pit is crazy huge and deep.

Now Just waiting for the tower crane and a posting of the freakin rendering!!

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Old April 6th, 2015, 11:46 PM   #5818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
I totally agree, there will never be any need for a 3000' building in NYC, and it would be too astronomically expensive to boot. Granted never say never but the city will just expand out to Jersey, Brooklyn, Queens etc. before that happens.
I for one cannot wait until Brooklyn gets its first supertall. I'm actually wondering if that will come to fruition before Newark gets one approved.


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Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
I don't think people will built at like 1777 feet to spite the WTC. I think it's very likely future buildings will go several hundred feet higher. Nordstrom just didn't want to be the first to do it so quickly after 1WTC has been completed.

I expect this next century to have buildings much taller than the World Trade Center even in Lower Manhattan.
I think the next jump in height would easily start at 1800+ft.
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Old April 7th, 2015, 09:32 PM   #5819
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Originally Posted by Vertical_Gotham View Post
The pit is crazy huge and deep.

Now Just waiting for the tower crane and a posting of the freakin rendering!!
digging seems to be completed!
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Old April 7th, 2015, 11:18 PM   #5820
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The pit is crazy huge and deep.

Now Just waiting for the tower crane and a posting of the freakin rendering!!

I wonder when the site will be at ground level.
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217 west 57th street, 225 west 57th street, central park south, cps, extell, new york, nordstrom tower, nyc, supertall

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