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Old September 8th, 2015, 05:39 PM   #6601
MarshallKnight
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Hey guys, Yimby this morning posted a long article confirming that the spire has been removed, and that the final parapet height has been bumped to 1550' with 99 floors. I was able to access it from my phone, but subsequently trying to find it on the Yimby site results in a 404 error (not sure whether it's been taken down or I just can't access it from this computer). So I copy-and-pasted the text and images from the article here:

Quote:


Last month, a rep for Extell told the NY Post that all images of Nordstrom Tower released so far are inaccurate, which is especially confusing considering some of the images came from documents produced in-house at the firm. But the PR doublespeak is technically correct, and YIMBY can now confirm that there has indeed been an additional tweak to the plans, and the country’s future tallest building (by roof height) has been scalped of its spire.



Two separate project insiders contacted by YIMBY confirmed that the most recent construction documents left out any indications of a spire, and also sent along the latest schematics, allowing us to create updated renderings of the building. In the realm of absolute English relativity, this does validate the PR team’s claim that the renderings released so far are not final, in that the version presented by Extell earlier this year was not yet value-engineered. Besides discarding the spire, changes appear to have been minimal, although the parapet height has seen a boost to 1,550 feet, and the floor count has increased to 99.



Given the value-engineering that happened at One57, a repeat would seem more likely than not at Nordstrom Tower, and any architectural flourishes beyond the bare-minimum in the design spec are only likely to be found on the interiors. Still, the hand of architects Adrian Smith + Gordon Gill should result in something that transforms the skyline in a positive manner, somewhat resembling a taller and more angular version of the firm’s Trump International Hotel and Tower in Chicago.

One57’s fault isn’t so much its form as its “waterfall” color palette and the mechanicals grills visible up top, and these are both problems that 217 West 57th’s sleek design should avoid, with rooftop hardware encased behind the glass parapets. And while the official height may have been reduced from 1,795 feet, a rooftop 1,550 feet above street level will still make it the tallest building by that measure in the United States, surpassing the 1,450-foot top of the Willis Tower in Chicago (and the 1,397-foot peak of 432 Park Avenue here in New York City).

The building has been officially dubbed “Central Park Tower” despite the fact it is not on the Park. 220 Central Park South, now rising across 59th Street, will also obstruct a large portion of the first 1,000 feet of Nordstrom Tower’s Park views. But while many decry the impact of all the new height on the Manhattan skyline, the positive externalities of the project will stretch even farther than the fallacies of its NIMBY opponents.

Combined with the new retail components of 432 Park Avenue, Nordstrom Tower’s rise will likely result in new goal-posts for high-end shopping along 57th Street, with the corridor between Broadway and Park potentially emerging as a rival to the upper 50s along Fifth Avenue. With tourists arriving in record numbers and hotel construction also reaching new highs, the expansion of Midtown’s luxury retail core will translate into more jobs for New Yorkers and more tax dollars for the city.

Cranes are now going up, foundation pouring is underway, and building permits confirm something exceedingly similar to what’s already been posted will indeed rise.

While it seems the spire has been removed, it is always possible that it may return at the last minute, and the most recent changes could simply be a bid for discretion. Though the measure is extreme, it is not without precedent in New York City’s history.

The 1.3 million square foot project is expected to wrap in 2019.
Of course, given Extell's history, it would be foolish to consider this the final word. But this is what we have for now.

Thoughts?
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Old September 8th, 2015, 06:44 PM   #6602
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I think it would be a pity if they get ride of the spire. Vanity height or not, I think they help giving Manhattan its distinguishable skyline, and specially at night, all those spires shining, are quite an spectacle.
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Old September 8th, 2015, 07:06 PM   #6603
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"Value engineering" seems to be a term taken to mean making cheaper, inferior looking... other than the lack of spire(FOR NOW) there appears nothing to indicate a drastic regression for value engineering economics in the Central Park Tower. I do think with a spire it looks better but still looks great and we got the full 1,550 height that Extell said they were considering for a maximum(without spire). I like crowns better than spires... I think what really makes a project like Steinway so great is the tapering, magnificent structure and crown. Though of course some spires are world class, like ETB's. I'd rather a parapet at 1,550ft. max over a cheapened WTC1 type spire, which was indeed value engineered in its negative context. So I'm glad for that we got a little more building height, and spared the spire.
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Old September 8th, 2015, 07:36 PM   #6604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCs77 View Post
I think it would be a pity if they get ride of the spire. Vanity height or not, I think they help giving Manhattan its distinguishable skyline, and specially at night, all those spires shining, are quite an spectacle.
This tower's parapet will be above all those spires. Although this was one of the few spires i did like, it is not a big blow to me.
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Old September 8th, 2015, 07:54 PM   #6605
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It fits in a little better without the spire. In your face to the overzealous mod who deleted my photoshop of the tower without a spire a few months back.
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Old September 8th, 2015, 08:00 PM   #6606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCs77 View Post
I think it would be a pity if they get ride of the spire. Vanity height or not, I think they help giving Manhattan its distinguishable skyline, and specially at night, all those spires shining, are quite an spectacle.
I'm not a fan of "vanity height," which is why I'm an advocate of using rooftop/parapet measurements as the baseline for comparing building heights. But I do think the building looks better with the spire -- particularly since it provided a nice book-end to the WTC spire at the other end of the island.

Quote:
Originally Posted by citybooster View Post
"Value engineering" seems to be a term taken to mean making cheaper, inferior looking... other than the lack of spire(FOR NOW) there appears nothing to indicate a drastic regression for value engineering economics in the Central Park Tower.
The article is probably unnecessarily snarky, but I think "value engineering" is an appropriate term here, since this almost definitely amounts to a cost-cutting measure. Erecting a spire of that size, atop a building that tall, is a huge expense, especially for something that's functionally useless.

BUT, I do stand by my earlier sentiment that nothing is set in stone, and as Yimby suggests at the end of their article, we could well have a Chrysler-esque surprise in store. Personally, I've got my fingers crossed, but I don't think we're likely to know exactly what's in store until this is well on its way to completion.
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Old September 8th, 2015, 08:53 PM   #6607
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I agree with MarshallKnight 100%. To me the building is the building and the spire is the spire on top of the building. Spires look interesting, but are they integral to the building? And the answer is none more black.
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Old September 8th, 2015, 09:00 PM   #6608
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Originally Posted by SMCYB View Post
I agree with MarshallKnight 100%. To me the building is the building and the spire is the spire on top of the building. Spires look interesting, but are they integral to the building? And the answer is none more gray.

l agree and l think what is most important to me is the fact that we are getting a 1,550 foot tall skyscraper. Yes there are many supertalls that have higher roof heights around the world but there are more to come in NYC and l like that its happening gradually.
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Old September 8th, 2015, 09:20 PM   #6609
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I wonder if the Rolling Stones will move in to the 99th floor.
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Old September 8th, 2015, 09:31 PM   #6610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanImpact View Post
This tower's parapet will be above all those spires. Although this was one of the few spires i did like, it is not a big blow to me.
I agree. Better a higher parapet or roof than just a spire.
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Old September 8th, 2015, 09:42 PM   #6611
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Not such a loss... 1,550 feet to the roof is titanic. Also 99 has a nice ring to it, even if it's not 100.

I did actually like the spire though, but whatever. Can't complain about this really.
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Old September 8th, 2015, 10:21 PM   #6612
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I agree spires make a skyline look good as a whole. A bunch of flat roofs is a little exciting, but still it's hard to complain when this tower will be the tallest roof in the nation.
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Old September 8th, 2015, 10:35 PM   #6613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanImpact View Post
This tower's parapet will be above all those spires. Although this was one of the few spires i did like, it is not a big blow to me.

But my point is not about the height, nor if the parapet is higher than other spires of the city, My point is the image, the aesthetic of the spires on the NY skyline.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wilfred267 View Post
l agree and l think what is most important to me is the fact that we are getting a 1,550 foot tall skyscraper. Yes there are many supertalls that have higher roof heights around the world but there are more to come in NYC and l like that its happening gradually.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Offereins View Post
I agree. Better a higher parapet or roof than just a spire.
The spire would make much more impact in the skyline than just 20 more feet of actual building, those extra 20 feet nobody will notice, the spire will. And anyway, it is not as if it is either one or another, the building could be 1550 ft to the parapet and still have the spire, could be 1770 ft, and have the spire anyway.

I really don't care about the vanity height, for me that is a boring discussion, either count the height to the spire or not, whatever. But I do think those pointy (and cheaty if you want) things really enhance the skyline. See those pictures and notice how the spires give the New York Skyline a different look, a different feeling, specially at night.

At 1550 ft. this building will be indeed the pinnacle of Midtown, but I think it would be really nice that it had enhanced it pinnacle-ness with a spire (and again, not talking about the height, but the aesthetic of it) That's why I think it would be a pitty if they indeed get ride of the spire. I wish they don't after all.


New York City at sunrise on March 25, 2013 by Steven Kelley, en Flickr

New York 2014 - Skyline by night (Staten Island) 20:49:02 by gabri_micha, en Flickr

Statue of Liberty and Empire State Building by John Entwistle, en Flickr

New York City @ Dusk by Emilio Santacoloma, en Flickr


I like this picture too, but it isn't allowed to be shared with a BBCode, just a link. It is from the George Washington Bridge.

https://flic.kr/p/qsXAkk
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Old September 8th, 2015, 10:37 PM   #6614
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so much better without it
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Old September 9th, 2015, 01:08 AM   #6615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCs77 View Post

I like this picture too, but it isn't allowed to be shared with a BBCode, just a link. It is from the George Washington Bridge.

https://flic.kr/p/qsXAkk
All the pictures you posted are nice, and I can't argue against the effect, so I won't.

The thing I like most about the GWB picture is the effect all the little tiny lights from the apartment/office windows have. I call it the 'Honeymooners' Effect."


http://quartersnacks.com/wp-content/...03/gleason.png
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Old September 9th, 2015, 03:54 AM   #6616
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Disappointed. I liked the spire.
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Old September 9th, 2015, 05:23 AM   #6617
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I agree. A spire would fit perfect in the surrounding area..
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Old September 9th, 2015, 05:30 AM   #6618
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Most of those spires do not look good by themselves. BoA is the most unfitting, its crown does not ask for a spire. But this spire I think for the building so well it even gives ESB a run for its money :uhoh: tis is probably a ploy. I think that they want it just a little higher to match the design of the building for scale, but don't want to go over 1wtc. Well they could make it a little shorter or just beat 1wtc by a wider margin. But I think going one foot shorter is the tackiest and worst choice to make.
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Old September 9th, 2015, 05:45 AM   #6619
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Couldn't have said it better myself...
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Old September 9th, 2015, 07:38 AM   #6620
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This is saddening well i guess my new favorite project is slow but surely rising 53w53! And my question is why is the US so far behind when it comes to height and other features? It seems like every tower to be proposed is either cut down, cancelled or stripped
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217 west 57th street, 225 west 57th street, central park south, cps, extell, new york, nordstrom tower, nyc, supertall

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