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Supertalls Discussions of projects under construction between 300-599m/1,000-1,999ft tall.
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Old September 18th, 2017, 02:37 PM   #7961
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I agree with you. Not only for the height, but I feel like this part of midtown could need the spire to give this part a nice climax. I mean, 432 and Steinway are both not much smaller than this one by roof or parapet height. So without a spire this part would more or less plateau again.
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Old September 18th, 2017, 05:09 PM   #7962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc15 View Post

we have just to imagine that amazing skyline
DAMN!!! AMAZING SKYLINE!!!! why is it there's no high rise buildings/skyscrapers in the middle of Empire State and Freedom Tower???
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Old September 18th, 2017, 06:10 PM   #7963
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Quote:
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DAMN!!! AMAZING SKYLINE!!!! why is it there's no high rise buildings/skyscrapers in the middle of Empire State and Freedom Tower???
Now Imagine that view with Tower Verre, One Vanderbilt, 45 Broad, all the Hudson Yards towers, and 9 Dekalb off in the distance across the East River.



I think the gap in skyscrapers has to do with the bedrock underneath Manhattan. In Midtown and the Financial District the bedrock is not very deep under the surface so it's easier to build skyscrapers in those areas. In the areas in the middle, the bedrock is much deeper. Apparently now the technology does exist to build skyscrapers in the deep bedrock areas, but historically it was not always possible so that is how those two separate skyscraper districts developed. Someday we may see the gap filled, but that would require some changes in zoning and I also have a feeling places like SoHo and the West Village would face strong NIMBY opposition to tall skyscrapers. But if we have a supertall underconstruction in Brooklyn now then anything is possible.
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Old September 18th, 2017, 11:06 PM   #7964
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Originally Posted by nylkoorB View Post
Now Imagine that view with Tower Verre, One Vanderbilt, 45 Broad, all the Hudson Yards towers, and 9 Dekalb off in the distance across the East River.



I think the gap in skyscrapers has to do with the bedrock underneath Manhattan. In Midtown and the Financial District the bedrock is not very deep under the surface so it's easier to build skyscrapers in those areas. In the areas in the middle, the bedrock is much deeper. Apparently now the technology does exist to build skyscrapers in the deep bedrock areas, but historically it was not always possible so that is how those two separate skyscraper districts developed. Someday we may see the gap filled, but that would require some changes in zoning and I also have a feeling places like SoHo and the West Village would face strong NIMBY opposition to tall skyscrapers. But if we have a supertall underconstruction in Brooklyn now then anything is possible.
This is the story as it's usually told, although I have heard an alternative explanation that it is about the geography of subway and rail lines. Basically, in this telling, the business center shifted north from the Financial District to Midtown because subway lines converged in Midtown (including routes out to Queens), and rail lines came into the city at Grand Central and Penn Station in the same area, so it was ideal as the business hub. Towers were not built south of approximately 30th Street because they weren't central enough, so there wasn't demand. Nowadays, of course, zoning prevents skyscrapers in that area for the most part. It's worth noting that there have been aborted proposals in the distant past for taller buildings, most famously the aborted skyscraper at Eleven Madison (on the left below), which prior to the Great Depression was supposed to be the tallest building in the world.

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Old September 19th, 2017, 12:14 AM   #7965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nylkoorB View Post
I think the gap in skyscrapers has to do with the bedrock underneath Manhattan. In Midtown and the Financial District the bedrock is not very deep under the surface so it's easier to build skyscrapers in those areas.
This may be true but it doesn't have to do with the gap. Lower Manhattan was traditional heart of the city, but activity gradually moved upward upon the opening of the subway and the construction of Penn Station and eventually Grand Central. They were placed in Midtown due to lower land costs (development went along transport corridors radiating outwards from Downtown) and locational advantage, being midway up Manhattan and better for connections to New Jersey, Long Island and Connecticut.
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Old September 19th, 2017, 11:21 AM   #7966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc15 View Post

we have just to imagine that amazing skyline
We are truly about to step in to the future.. The future is HERE !
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Old September 19th, 2017, 11:58 AM   #7967
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The style of New York is unique! Did you know that many building companies around the world are trying to copy it?
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Old September 19th, 2017, 03:28 PM   #7968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exodus99 View Post
DAMN!!! AMAZING SKYLINE!!!! why is it there's no high rise buildings/skyscrapers in the middle of Empire State and Freedom Tower???
Anyway, the area between the ESB and the WTC is a sea of gorgeous, old buildings. Skyscrapers should never rise there,
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Old September 20th, 2017, 12:50 AM   #7969
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Yeah right, no parking garages or precast-concrete stores there at all...
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Old September 20th, 2017, 01:00 AM   #7970
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There have to be places for people to put gas in/charge up their vehicles ... not a whole lot of those in Midtown or Downtown.
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Old September 20th, 2017, 01:03 AM   #7971
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No towers are not required all over Manhattan anyway. No need to wreck SoHo, NoLita, Villages etc with skyscarpers. Just build taller towers in midtown and downtown in the future when land becomes scarce. This will make them build even taller in the future because there are fewer places left to build.

Anybody who wants to build skyscrapers in historic districts that are low rise and hence ruin the character of those areas (with buildings that are far out of context) is an idiot..

If they put up a bunch of towers in those areas NYC will have lost something special. The low rise areas are also the favorite areas of many people too and most people don't like scrapers, if you can believe that.
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Old September 20th, 2017, 01:14 AM   #7972
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Sure, you could focus on the minutiae, the non-essentials.

That would be like looking at a beautiful woman but commenting only on the minor imperfections in her skin or hair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by droneriot View Post
Yeah right, no parking garages or precast-concrete stores there at all...
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Old September 20th, 2017, 01:22 AM   #7973
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The solution is to replace those trash buildings down there with nicer low-rise structures. No need to build towers there and ruin the feel of the nice areas (like SoHo, Villages, Tribeca, NoLita, etc). There are plenty of places to redevelop and build taller towers in midtown and downtown, and Brooklyn/LIC.
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Old September 20th, 2017, 01:34 AM   #7974
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Yeah right, no parking garages or precast-concrete stores there at all...
You have no idea what you're talking about.
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Old September 20th, 2017, 01:40 AM   #7975
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Originally Posted by Nuwanda View Post
Sure, you could focus on the minutiae, the non-essentials.

That would be like looking at a beautiful woman but commenting only on the minor imperfections in her skin or hair.
I focus on the essentials: The construction of tall buildings. NIMBY posts ignoring or dismissing facts are barely a minor imperfection.
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Old September 20th, 2017, 01:46 AM   #7976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droneriot View Post
I focus on the essentials: The construction of tall buildings. NIMBY posts ignoring or dismissing facts are barely a minor imperfection.
You can do so elsewhere. You can't get those towers built in these areas, period. Historic districts will not allow towers to ruin the rare historic nature of these areas. Even if the building your are replacing is not historic, the fact that you may be altering the character of the neighborhood with something that is most likely entirely out of context is enough.

Last edited by JohnDee; September 20th, 2017 at 09:36 AM.
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Old September 20th, 2017, 02:34 AM   #7977
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Those areas you mentioned are already wrecked and ruined, there is no soul or character in those areas of Manhattan just high rents and the snobby Uber wealthy. High end retailers can't even afford the rent in those areas specifically soho. It's only a matter time before the building boom comes to the area. Just like billionaires row being sorrounded by luxury retailers on 57th street, which actually helped fuel the rise of the supertalls there, I can see the same happening in the village, soho,, noho, etc.. There was a time when TriBeca was a small nook that lacked supertalls and skyscrapers, but that has clearly changed. It won't happen all over the city though, as Central Park North in Harlem lacks the high end retailers that cater to the Uber wealthy. I'm glad and appreciative that I was able to enjoy NYC when it still had a soul and fabric. A time when there was actual struggling artists in the village, and different types of people and cultures sprinkled throughout the diverse neighborhoods. Change is a part of evolution so I'm not angry or anything over all that has transpired. It's actually an incredible feeling, when I go to neighborhoods that have really changed and can say to myself, "wow, I remember when this area was....". Bring on the megatalls NYC!!
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Old September 20th, 2017, 04:36 AM   #7978
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Actually. You're right. I misread your interlocutor.

There's no reason skyscrapers shouldn't be built between midtown and downtown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by droneriot View Post
I focus on the essentials: The construction of tall buildings. NIMBY posts ignoring or dismissing facts are barely a minor imperfection.
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Old September 20th, 2017, 08:49 AM   #7979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuwanda View Post
Actually. You're right. I misread your interlocutor.

There's no reason skyscrapers shouldn't be built between midtown and downtown.
That's up for debate. Personally, you wouldn't build significant numbers of tall towers around the land-marked zones down there, as that could potentially change the historic feeling of the low-rise historic areas like SoHo, villages, etc. Why compromise that?

A few towers here and there outside the historic districts would be OK if they were high quality and didn't overpower the historic zones of gracious old low rise buildings.

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Old September 20th, 2017, 08:56 AM   #7980
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Originally Posted by rnsone View Post
Those areas you mentioned are already wrecked and ruined, there is no soul or character in those areas of Manhattan just high rents and the snobby Uber wealthy. High end retailers can't even afford the rent in those areas specifically soho. It's only a matter time before the building boom comes to the area. Just like billionaires row being sorrounded by luxury retailers on 57th street, which actually helped fuel the rise of the supertalls there, I can see the same happening in the village, soho,, noho, etc.. There was a time when TriBeca was a small nook that lacked supertalls and skyscrapers, but that has clearly changed. It won't happen all over the city though, as Central Park North in Harlem lacks the high end retailers that cater to the Uber wealthy. I'm glad and appreciative that I was able to enjoy NYC when it still had a soul and fabric. A time when there was actual struggling artists in the village, and different types of people and cultures sprinkled throughout the diverse neighborhoods. Change is a part of evolution so I'm not angry or anything over all that has transpired. It's actually an incredible feeling, when I go to neighborhoods that have really changed and can say to myself, "wow, I remember when this area was....". Bring on the megatalls NYC!!
No way, disagree there with everything you have to say! I don't see this boom happening at all, a few towers maybe outside of the historic districts, but that's all. Nothing tall or dense that would be a true skyline. Also the old architecture will retain the areas soul as long as its not compromised. Rich people can't ruin the historic feel of these areas ever.
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