daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > Supertalls

Supertalls Discussions of projects under construction between 300-599m/1,000-1,999ft tall.
» Proposed Supertalls



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 23rd, 2013, 12:27 AM   #1961
Vertical_Gotham
Registered User
 
Vertical_Gotham's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,437
Likes (Received): 6488





On no!! Not me Kanto. I wish I could elaborate and clarify but your guess is good as mine, but I’ll take a crack at it! Lol

If someone can I would really be interested to understand air rights better but anyway here is my take if anyone is interested and care to clarify and elaborate that would be awesome. 

232 W 58 is the building adjacent that Extell just purchased. What I do know is that it is a narrow 2 floor building that has a lot area of 2100 sq ft with a gross floor area of 4,000 sq ft. Since this building is not land marked he can raze it and transfer the un-used air rights as of right. I’m assuming he can certainly build on demolished lot just as long the new structure will be incorporated into the main tower. In short, once the lots are merged, the development rights from all merging lots are combined and can be used freely within the property.

I really don’t know how much FAR or air rights he can get with the newly purchased building based on the details I have given. But what is interesting is that this new building may have been zoned for 10 floors but 2 floors were only built so there could be more hidden air rights available?? Maybe someone can figure it out. 

But I think what this move is really about is that this should allow him to assemble by way of purchasing more air rights from the property next to 232W58 because the lots will be joined contiguously. That neighbor I think would be 1784 Broadway?? And maybe Gary’s next move is to make an offer they can’t refuse to sell their precious air rights for him to build much taller if it had not been done already??? 
__________________

Kanto liked this post
Vertical_Gotham no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 23rd, 2013, 12:34 AM   #1962
scalziand
Naugatuckian
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Naugatuck, CT
Posts: 455
Likes (Received): 181

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarshallKnight View Post
Also, is there some kind of standard whereby we can infer the amount of air rights a given building has, presumably based on zoning and square footage of the plot?
YES! The zoning gives a floor area ratio (FAR for short), which gives the ratio between the allowable air rights and the square footage of the plot. For commercially zoned areas, the base FAR is 15. The zoning code also proscribes ways to increase the FAR over the base FAR through airrights transfers from neighboring properties, or through bonuses, where the developer includes a public amenity i.e. add a plaza, fund transportation improvements, include an arcade, etc.

For 225 w57th, the site zoning is split between C5-3 and C5-1, which is commercial zoning.

http://gis.nyc.gov/doitt/nycitymap/t...=ZOLA&f=ZONING

C5-3 gives a FAR of 15 for commercial space (10 for residential space) and C5-1 gives a FAR of 4 for commercial space (10 for residential space). However, the zoning law allows the denser C5-3 zoning to be applied to the whole site, as long as more than half the site is designated as the denser zoning designation.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/zone...les.pdf#page=5

This doesn't include airrights purchases from neighboring buildings though, which are harder to track.
__________________

Vertical_Gotham, Kanto, Highcliff liked this post

Last edited by scalziand; July 23rd, 2013 at 04:56 AM.
scalziand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 23rd, 2013, 12:44 AM   #1963
desertpunk
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
 
desertpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ELP ~ ABQ
Posts: 55,648
Likes (Received): 53449

He may simply buy adjoining properties to square the lower floorplates of the tower (this will, after all, house a Nordstroms) to facilitate easier loading, and protect views which adds value to the units. Since there's a diminishing return on units above a certain height, I don't see why he'd use the air rights to build higher.
desertpunk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 23rd, 2013, 12:53 AM   #1964
Vertical_Gotham
Registered User
 
Vertical_Gotham's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,437
Likes (Received): 6488

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertpunk View Post
He may simply buy adjoining properties to square the lower floorplates of the tower (this will, after all, house a Nordstroms) to facilitate easier loading, and protect views which adds value to the units. Since there's a diminishing return on units above a certain height, I don't see why he'd use the air rights to build higher.

True.. Nordstrom would certainly need a loading dock. That new space would be perfect for that or for a public plaza to gain even more air rights on top of what it already has.
Vertical_Gotham no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 23rd, 2013, 04:10 AM   #1965
600West218
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,734
Likes (Received): 1574

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertpunk View Post
Since there's a diminishing return on units above a certain height, I don't see why he'd use the air rights to build higher.
Sorry for off topic post but why do you say this? I though units increased dramatically in value with height (unblocked views, prestige, etc) and that is why we have such a race in NYC right now to build the tallest residential units possible. At 1,550 this building should be safe for a while but if the market keeps up it probably won't be long before there will be ones even taller.
600West218 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 23rd, 2013, 05:45 AM   #1966
bigreach
GF 117 #1, Lotte Tower #2
 
bigreach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,370
Likes (Received): 739

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertpunk View Post
That's Maha Nakhon in Bangkok superimposed in NYC. It popped up as a rumination here a while back: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=487
Are you serious, this bldg is actually REAL/??? It looks cool, but crumbling as well. Is it complete? Looks pretty fake to me, but then again I don't knkow whats real and whats not anymore. Guess it is, just saw scaizlands video under the bldg, forum page. Cool as hell
__________________
Rooftops over Spires/Antennas/
Rooftops, someplace where you can look over the edge, can't do that climbing a needle.

Last edited by bigreach; July 23rd, 2013 at 05:54 AM.
bigreach no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 23rd, 2013, 05:57 AM   #1967
iiConTr0v3rSYx
Brooklyn Boy
 
iiConTr0v3rSYx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 1,343
Likes (Received): 2921

That is indeed a photoshopped photo, Bigreach.
__________________
Want to take a magical aerial tour of NY?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBPrNUzk1BA

Check this guy out for Monthly updates on the WTC.
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc3yuNST1YhPioYxJtqJWtQ
iiConTr0v3rSYx está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 23rd, 2013, 06:07 AM   #1968
bigreach
GF 117 #1, Lotte Tower #2
 
bigreach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,370
Likes (Received): 739

Quote:
Originally Posted by iiConTr0v3rSYx View Post
That is indeed a photoshopped photo, Bigreach.
I knew it was fake in NY, but it's actually getting buiolt in Bankok?
__________________
Rooftops over Spires/Antennas/
Rooftops, someplace where you can look over the edge, can't do that climbing a needle.
bigreach no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 23rd, 2013, 06:25 AM   #1969
ZZ-II
I love Skyscrapers
 
ZZ-II's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Near Ingolstadt in Bavaria
Posts: 33,504
Likes (Received): 6525

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigreach View Post
I knew it was fake in NY, but it's actually getting buiolt in Bankok?
Yes, it's U/C right now
ZZ-II no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 23rd, 2013, 11:19 AM   #1970
patrykus
Registered User
 
patrykus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 3,778
Likes (Received): 1794

Yes it's very much real alright. And the main tower start to rise above the street level as we speak.

The thread is here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...889888&page=32

Maha Nakhon is the best prove that sometimes lower towers are much more spectacular than much taller ones. It's only 313m but it's probably one of my top 5 favorite towers in the world.
__________________
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CComingSoon/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C


Highcliff liked this post
patrykus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 23rd, 2013, 11:26 AM   #1971
PABLOEING
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 93
Likes (Received): 28

This building will be the key of the new york skyline.....
PABLOEING no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 23rd, 2013, 02:16 PM   #1972
phoenixboi08
Registered User
 
phoenixboi08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,542
Likes (Received): 791

It's like a refinement of the 56 Leonard design...
phoenixboi08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 23rd, 2013, 02:24 PM   #1973
KillerZavatar
also known as Wally
 
KillerZavatar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Düsseldorf
Posts: 11,333
Likes (Received): 8232

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixboi08 View Post
It's like a refinement of the 56 Leonard design...
pretty sure the design for 56 leonard street is not as old as maha nakhon
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
KillerZavatar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 23rd, 2013, 02:50 PM   #1974
patrykus
Registered User
 
patrykus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 3,778
Likes (Received): 1794

Yup. Maha Nakhon is here most of the time I'm registered at ssc (first shown in 2009). Only now it starts rising above the ground.
__________________
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CComingSoon/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C


Highcliff liked this post
patrykus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 23rd, 2013, 03:05 PM   #1975
hunser
Steinway to Heaven |¦┆┊
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wien
Posts: 1,837
Likes (Received): 5031

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerZavatar View Post
pretty sure the design for 56 leonard street is not as old as maha nakhon
56 Leoanard dates back to 2007. Construction began in 2008, and was put on hold a year later.
hunser no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 23rd, 2013, 03:40 PM   #1976
patrykus
Registered User
 
patrykus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 3,778
Likes (Received): 1794

Oh true. Forgot this one was on hold. Still both of them are quite different designs and I can't see any signs of copying anything from each other.
__________________
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CComingSoon/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C


Highcliff liked this post

Last edited by patrykus; July 23rd, 2013 at 03:48 PM.
patrykus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 23rd, 2013, 04:54 PM   #1977
RobertWalpole
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,607
Likes (Received): 2508

Quote:
Originally Posted by hunser View Post
56 Leoanard dates back to 2007. Construction began in 2008, and was put on hold a year later.
56 Leonard, like Tour Verre, is a Hines project. Construction resumed a few months ago, and while it won't be completed for a few years, it's practically all sold out. It's about four floors above street level.
RobertWalpole no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 23rd, 2013, 10:29 PM   #1978
phoenixboi08
Registered User
 
phoenixboi08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,542
Likes (Received): 791

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
Oh true. Forgot this one was on hold. Still both of them are quite different designs and I can't see any signs of copying anything from each other.
That wasn't what I meant. I simply mean that the designs are similar, and the Bangkok one is a bit more refined.
__________________
MCRP '16

inno4321 liked this post
phoenixboi08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2013, 04:50 AM   #1979
bigreach
GF 117 #1, Lotte Tower #2
 
bigreach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,370
Likes (Received): 739

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
Yes it's very much real alright. And the main tower start to rise above the street level as we speak.

The thread is here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...889888&page=32

Maha Nakhon is the best prove that sometimes lower towers are much more spectacular than much taller ones. It's only 313m but it's probably one of my top 5 favorite towers in the world.
You are right it's damn cool, is NY really getting something similar? Or did someone just photoshop it to start confrontation?
__________________
Rooftops over Spires/Antennas/
Rooftops, someplace where you can look over the edge, can't do that climbing a needle.
bigreach no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2013, 04:59 AM   #1980
RobertWalpole
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,607
Likes (Received): 2508

56 Leonard by Hines, the Verre's developer. It's only four stories above ground, and yet, practically all of its units have been sold. It's around 870 feet tall.

__________________

Highcliff liked this post
RobertWalpole no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
217 west 57th street, 225 west 57th street, central park south, cps, extell, new york, nordstrom tower, nyc, supertall

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu