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Old April 1st, 2012, 12:55 AM   #341
Iluminat
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actually it was WWII that transformed the marketplace into a junkyard. and after the war they built a fifties style modern marketplace, which was really great at that time...just remember, that almost 70% of the city was destroyed and in the 50s/60s the local government just had the idea to transform the postwar "junkyard" into a modern 50s - 60s city...itīs always the point of view...during that time it was not "modern" to reconstruct..it was a new beginning

but YES...today itīs just damn ugly!
It wasn't very modern even by '60 standards though. They look like some sort of medium quality '30 housing with somehow italian feel to it. I wouldn't call this ugly but rather too provincial for it's location.
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Old April 1st, 2012, 04:20 AM   #342
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Stuttgart/Germany marketplace 1881:


almost the same view, today:
marcschilling.com
Oh Christ! I almost fell over. Someone should be put to death.
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Old April 1st, 2012, 04:24 AM   #343
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Well at least in Stuttgart they tried to maintain the building footprints, general development envelopes and organization so that the square's new look didn't disrupt the historical layout of streets. Compare to many cities in Poland where buildings were destroyed in the war > commies took over > bam! commie block plopped into a tight, historical space without regard for context.
No way man. The Stuttgart example is pretty extreme. Doesn't even look like the same place. Most major Polish cities have kept to faithful reconstructions. Are you maybe referring to insignificant towns in Poland? Poles should be proud of how their cities look now in this day and age, considering the events of the past. I also think Poles have paid more attention to more historically accurate reconstructions than Germans, would you not say?
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Old April 1st, 2012, 12:14 PM   #344
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It was the historical building's problem that they were there. Modernism wanted to modernise world, not to conserve it in the conditions that were there (apart from the most recognizable landmarks).
Karl-Marx university in Leipzig which was posted above was a very appealing building actually, it looks. Form following function, with interesting details in the below-window stripes.
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Old April 1st, 2012, 03:36 PM   #345
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Indeed, was it demolished for this postmodern monstrosity?
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Old April 1st, 2012, 05:02 PM   #346
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No way man. The Stuttgart example is pretty extreme. Doesn't even look like the same place. Most major Polish cities have kept to faithful reconstructions. Are you maybe referring to insignificant towns in Poland?
In Poland there are some good and some bad examples. Given the historical, social and economic context I'd say it's in the positive overall.

I wasn't talking about any town in particular, but there are many places where they plopped down a commie block in the middle of a historical place in Poland. Pretty much every Town in West Pomerania, Silesia, Lubusz and especially Warmia-Masuria. Here is an example from Olesnica, of what I meant (there are worse but this came to mine):

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Old April 2nd, 2012, 04:45 PM   #347
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Intervention - ok I know what you mean. Look, even western nations destroyed some of their historical structures in the name of modernism. I have read that in places like Stockholm, they did this. In regards to Poland, most significant towns had their main squares revitalized and rebuilt to at least resemble the structures of the past.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 08:51 PM   #348
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Indeed, was it demolished for this postmodern monstrosity?
as i told HERE 60 per cent of the university's buildings and 70 per cent of its books had been destroyed at the end of WWII. The German Democratic Republic was created in 1949 and in 1953 the University was renamed by its government the Karl-Marx-University, Leipzig.
In 1968, the partly damaged Augusteum, including Johanneum and Albertinum and the intact Paulinerkirche, were demolished to make way for a redevelopment of the university, carried out between 1973 and 1978. After reunification the old commieblock-university was torn down and replaced by the NEW university, to celebrate its 600 birthday...
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 10:42 PM   #349
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as i told HERE 60 per cent of the university's buildings and 70 per cent of its books had been destroyed at the end of WWII. The German Democratic Republic was created in 1949 and in 1953 the University was renamed by its government the Karl-Marx-University, Leipzig.
In 1968, the partly damaged Augusteum, including Johanneum and Albertinum and the intact Paulinerkirche, were demolished to make way for a redevelopment of the university, carried out between 1973 and 1978. After reunification the old commieblock-university was torn down and replaced by the NEW university, to celebrate its 600 birthday...
As usual the commies were the real villains here, but the post unification government would have done far better to right this wrong by reconstructing the original edifice(s).

With modern interiors, a sky lit roof and state of the art wiring such a structure would have ensured a fitting environment for generations of future students while simultaneously respecting the cities history.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 11:58 PM   #350
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the former director oft the university was against a complete reconstruction...and at the end, he was right...the old university was completely destroyed...so...why build somethig disney...they started an international competition and decided to build a new university in the shape of the old...remembering the old, but celebrating the new (denying the new)...maybe itīs the wrong way...but hell, i didnīt decided it...i like the new one...but i also loved the old building...unfortunately i never knew the original (blown in the early 60s), which changed through the centuries too.....
btw you can see some pictures of the inside here: UNI LE
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 02:51 PM   #351
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the former director oft the university was against a complete reconstruction...and at the end, he was right...the old university was completely destroyed...so...why build somethig disney...they started an international competition and decided to build a new university in the shape of the old...remembering the old, but celebrating the new (denying the new)...maybe itīs the wrong way...but hell, i didnīt decided it...i like the new one...but i also loved the old building...unfortunately i never knew the original (blown in the early 60s), which changed through the centuries too.....
btw you can see some pictures of the inside here: UNI LE
Disney? How about Tron? The new structure is a bastardization of modern architecture (which is already a lacking and often destructive style) and then a strange mixture of the destroyed Gothic structure. The only thing pleasing about it is the remnants of the Gothic building.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 04:04 PM   #352
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Not sure if these are old enough, sorry.

Snow Hill Station, Birmingham:



Replaced with




Birmingham Library:



Replaced with



St Mary's Church, Wolverhampton:



Replaced with



Fox Inn, Wolverhampton:



Replaced with

image hosted on flickr
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Old April 18th, 2012, 04:50 PM   #353
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No way man. The Stuttgart example is pretty extreme. Doesn't even look like the same place. Most major Polish cities have kept to faithful reconstructions. Are you maybe referring to insignificant towns in Poland? Poles should be proud of how their cities look now in this day and age, considering the events of the past. I also think Poles have paid more attention to more historically accurate reconstructions than Germans, would you not say?

Breslau/Wroclaw, Neumarkt/Nowy Targ






Jauer/Jawor, Ring/Rynek






Hirschberg/Jelenia Gora, Altstadt/Stare Miasto






Strehlen/Strzelin, Ring/Rynek






Liegnitz/Legnica, Altstadt/Stare Miasto





Should I continue? Gdansk, Warsaw and (parts of) Wroclaw were the exception, not the rule.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 06:39 PM   #354
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You're just using examples that would prove your point.

Listen, I have heard the same opinion, even from Germans, that Poles pay a bit more attention to accurate reconstructions. Whether or not there are people that disagree or not, I don't care. That being said, it appears that faithful reconstructions are going out of style, with the exception of really important buildings.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 07:36 PM   #355
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Yes Karasek there are a number of bad examples, but there is a chance that can be rectified, a lot of those shabby communist-era infills are nearing the end of their life span and as in the case of Wroclaw's Nowy Targ, there are already plans afoot to rebuild some of the original.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present

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Old April 18th, 2012, 07:55 PM   #356
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Malbork

[img]http://i42.************/2i7pu14.jpg[/img]

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Old April 18th, 2012, 09:47 PM   #357
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but there is a chance that can be rectified, a lot of those shabby communist-era infills are nearing the end of their life span

Nah this 50 years life span is a myth, most of them are probably in better technical condition than they were 20 years ago so don't count on that.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 08:35 AM   #358
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Yes Karasek there are a number of bad examples, but there is a chance that can be rectified, a lot of those shabby communist-era infills are nearing the end of their life span and as in the case of Wroclaw's Nowy Targ, there are already plans afoot to rebuild some of the original.
I don't think Poland will see many reconstructions in the future. It's capitalism now, and investors want to earn money. Who wants to pay for expensive reconstructions, especially in small, provincial towns? You will probably see many Glogows in the future.
It also shouldn't be forgotten that most of the few big reconstructions in Poland were ideologically motivated, and the more rural regions paid the price for the reconstructions of (especially) Warsaw. The losses are just less known.


Löwenberg/Lwowek Slaski, Markt/Rynek






Glogau/Glogow, Markt/Rynek



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Old April 19th, 2012, 04:20 PM   #359
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Interesting comparison of Breslau/Wroclaw. First a pre-war view from the east. In the middle (from bottom to top) Maria Magdalena, the market square with the town hall, and the salt market. On the right St. Elizabeth:




And today from southeast. Maria Magdalena on the right, market square in the middle, St. Elizabeth on the left:

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Old April 19th, 2012, 06:00 PM   #360
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XIX century planning (or lack thereof) was horribly dense and overcrowded so I think it's better today in this regard although Breslau was still better than Warsaw, even without the war and uprising we would have to demolish many buildings to modernize our city. This pic is from the communist times/early '90 by the way.
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