Ruined buildings and their replacements in Europe

[bolg]

Originally Posted by Sandstein

Why were these buildings demolished?

The socialists got caught up in the modernist movement which lead to the demolition of alot of urban areas in Sweden. In Stockholm some of it was motivated (perhaps justly) by the construction of the Stockholm metro and by the fact that some buildings were badly neglected. But alot of it just seems like senseless hatred towards classical architecture.

A few more;

Sagerska husen (now known as PK-huset), Stockholm

Then/now


The Blanche theater (now known as Sverige-huset), Stockholm

Then


Now


The Crown prince's stable (now Sheraton Hotel), Stockholm

Then:


Now:

[JohnnyMass]

My God!

[Raf124]

Originally Posted by Iluminat

XIX century planning (or lack thereof) was horribly dense and overcrowded so I think it's better today in this regard although Breslau was still better than Warsaw, even without the war and uprising we would have to demolish many buildings to modernize our city. This pic is from the communist times/early '90 by the way.

But regarding 19 century urban planning... it could have been fixed while still preserving streets layout and town quarters.
It was just a matter of demolishing an inner part of each quarter. You would than get very large courtyards instead of substandard extremely dense blocks and sheds.

Like in Prague:https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Praga...a,+Czechy&z=16

But modernists decided that they will build a new cities on the ruins of old...
60-70' modernism in urban planning was a period of biggest city degradation in Europe seen since ww2.


The saddest examples in this topic are not the buildings destroyed during ww2, but the ones destroyed after it, just to replace them with some bad taste cube. I think that contemporary architecture can generate much better replacements for old buildings than the ones created in 50'-70'... but now we are a little bit smarter and we don;t torn down our historical heritage so willingly as in functionalist and modernist dictatorship period.
Only solution torn down shitty bricks from sixties and seventies and replace them with reconstructions of good old day buildings

[keepthepast]

Originally Posted by Xorcist

Berlin :

and today (built 1998 by Michael Wilford & Partners):

The new British Embassy is ironically more similar to National Socialist-period designs than anything previous or particularly uniquely contemporary. Hotel Adlon next to the embassy in the far right of the photo is a good representation of contemporary interpretation of its original design.

[keepthepast]

Originally Posted by Klassiker

Yes I like the French embassy, but the rest is not particular impressive.

Berlin surely got rid of most of its neo classical buildings after 1945.

There was a need to "modernize" the remains of Berlin in all possible ways. So what was still standing was either demolished or robbed of all its outer details: the Stuck, Roof details, Balconies, Window dressings.....
So Berlin eventually lost all its pre-war highly decorated street fassades.
Naturally the Germans did that in the typical German sound and thorough way: all roofs were robbed from roof-windows, chimneys, turrets aso all walls robbed from all unnecessary stone to the nacked skin!!

This all changed the atmosphere on all streets dramatically. The city doesn't have that "heavy" look-and-feel anymore.

Berlin didn't "get rid" of its neo classical buildings after 1945...the Allies took care of that job quite effectively during the previous four three years. There were almost no structurally sound buildings remaining standing after April 1945. Some outer walls and facades stood like honeycombs on a moonscape, but little else that could be saved for "reconstruction". And no money or manpower to rebuild whatever the design. It was not as if there was damage that a few crews of carpenters and craftsmen could fix. Destruction was complete. With millions starving and living amongst rubble, the only pragmatic and reasonable quick fix was to clear the rubble and erect utilitarian buildings as soon as possible for the least amount of money. The efforts in the past 20 years to correct some of the necessary evils of 1945-1985 building programs are taking shape, but it will be a longer time to fully integrate the past and present.

[Iluminat]

Originally Posted by Raf124

But regarding 19 century urban planning... it could have been fixed while still preserving streets layout and town quarters.
It was just a matter of demolishing an inner part of each quarter. You would than get very large courtyards instead of substandard extremely dense blocks and sheds.

Like in Prague:https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Praga...a,+Czechy&z=16

It's not so easy, this inner part wasn't something completely separate from the outher part you seen from the street but it would be probably possible, although perhaps more expensive than simply demolishing everything but more importantly what would happen with poorer people that lived in this dense quarters? Number of households in the city center would decrease significantly so it might end up with dangerous ghettoes in the suburbs. Assuming people wouldn't leave for the american-style suburbs and there would be money for such projects.
I'm also not sure if they demolished something in this part of Prague or just built it this way.

The saddest examples in this topic are not the buildings destroyed during ww2, but the ones destroyed after it, just to replace them with some bad taste cube. I think that contemporary architecture can generate much better replacements for old buildings than the ones created in 50'-70'...

Contemporary architecture is not so different, perhaps we have some better technology/materials than we used back then.

[bolg]

A few more from Stockholm.

Park Hotel (now an office building), Stockholm:

Then:


Now:


Brunkebergstorg, Stockholm

Then:


Now:


Beridarebansgatan, Stockholm

Then:


Now:


Sergels torg, Stockholm

Then:


Now:

[Raf124]

Originally Posted by Iluminat

It's not so easy, this inner part wasn't something completely separate from the outher part you seen from the street but it would be probably possible,

It would be possible, there is a lot of such examples in Warsaw.

although perhaps more expensive than simply demolishing everything but more importantly what would happen with poorer people that lived in this dense quarters? Number of households in the city center would decrease significantly so it might end up with dangerous ghettoes in the suburbs.

But you could avid it by continuing this kind of urban design further and of course thru wise community flats policy.

In many cases of 19century cities, poor people actually lived in ghettos, it was very rare that in a single quarter there was rich "exterior" and poor interior. In most cases, apartments with windows heading "well" like courtyard were rented to mid income, or lower middle class families and apartments with windows heading the street were more representative and rented to better off families. The same logic was in poor city districts - so you had poor working class/craftsmen families in exterior part of mansion, and complete poverty in basements and courtyards.

In case of central europe, mixture of poor and rich people in single quarter or block is rather new thing started back in communist times.

Assuming people wouldn't leave for the american-style suburbs and there would be money for such projects.

There is a lot of examples of urban design which is not so dense as 19century city center, but not as sparse as American like suburb and still very 19century like and classy

I'm also not sure if they demolished something in this part of Prague or just built it this way.

I think that some were done in this way and some were done thru getting rid of inner structures.

Contemporary architecture is not so different, perhaps we have some better technology/materials than we used back then.

I think that contemporary architects try to fit their buildings into surroundings in much bigger degree than designers from 60-70'.
Post war modernist architects wanted to build a new cities on ruins of old. They were devoted to this weird modernist ideology of motor-towns and completely new approach to cities and public space. But as we can see, most people prefer tradition over un-humanized clones of "Unité d'Habitation".

[Rascian]

Second male lyceum from Belgrade

On the left





Burned after German 1941 bombing




New "Politika" building built on its place




Old Defense ministry, also destroyed in German bombing



replaced with the building A of the complex of new Defense ministry




which was also bombed and still stands in ruins



the entire complex

[White Light]

Originally Posted by Kame

I love threads like this one! Every architect should be forced to look at this every few months.

Karstadt am Hermannplatz, Berlin.

Impressive at daytime.


http://www.berlin-hermannplatz.de/karstadt/

Spectacular at nighttime.


http://www.whoch2wei.at/WAGNER_WERK/...e_gruesse.html

With a publicly accessible roof.


http://www.berlin-hermannplatz.de/karstadt/

Destroyed in war and rebuild in a modern way. Today it looks like a piece of shit and perfectly blends in with all the other piece-of-shit-Karstadts scattered all over western Germany ruining the city centers.


http://www.karstadt.de/jsp/filialen/...-kreuzberg.jsp

Originally Posted by HenriGermain

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Well, at least, one small section is still standing...



Even that looks great...

[Rocky031]

It looks to me like its time for demolition and construction of older building

[JBmaglev]

Actually, this Karstadt building would be very much at home in, umm, Shanghai! We need some good quality large German department store here, with real German stuff in there, and the other imposing Art Deco structures there would make it feel truly at home... in fact, maybe it would end up a floor or two taller there.

Who owns Karstadt now? Are they actually Germans?

[White Light]

Karstadt am Hermannplatz, May 1945

[Kaufmann]

DORTMUND



Hotel "Römischer Kaiser" old market of Dortmund

Quelle:Abb. Dortmund Haltestelle Westentor



and now shopping center P&C


Quelle:Kaufmann



Overview of the old market of Dortmund


Quelle:Abb. Dortmund Haltestelle Westentor


and now

Quelle:Kaufmann

[Jasper90]

Venice, Italy

Before:



In 1970 the façade was demolished and replaced with this one







It's one of the only modern (post-war) intervention in the Historical Centre of Venice. All the other modern buildings in the city were built on empty lots, on former industrial areas, inside the hospital... Without destroying the existing historical buildings.

[JohnnyMass]

Terrible! It completely ruins the square's uniformity.

[Croatian heritage]

----

[Mr Bricks]

Originally Posted by bolg

The socialists got caught up in the modernist movement which lead to the demolition of alot of urban areas in Sweden.

It's easy to blame the "socialists" now, but the fact of the matter is that right-wing parties were just as eager to pull down old stuff.

[Xorcist]

Originally Posted by Mr Bricks

It's easy to blame the "socialists" now, but the fact of the matter is that right-wing parties were just as eager to pull down old stuff.

that´s so true...after WWII a lot of city governments in ruined germany decided, that most the old stuff which survived the war should be demolished because it was old fashioned....so cities like cologne, stuttgart, hannover are today ugly, boring, nearly without any historic buildings...so you can find that in former conservative ruled west-germany and also in communist-ruled east-germany....i guess destroying medival city centres was just....modern....in the 50s and 60s....timberframed buildings against glass and steel and tons of concrete....you can see the same development in china right now....really old quarters are torn down for new skyscrapers or shopping centres...

[joshsam]

Ostend, Belgium in the belle epoque:


http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s.../oostende1.jpg


http://www.vakantie-middelkerke.eu/i...ude%20foto.jpg

Ostend today:


http://www.photographypace.be/Photog.../Oostende1.JPG