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Old November 20th, 2008, 04:51 AM   #181
Jay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
Europeans don't tend to build their trains like armoured behemoths like they do in North America. It's a bit of a toss-up between speed, safety and energy efficiency. Most of the time this isn't a problem judging from the number of train crashes across Europe compared with North America.


Yea but most of the time when european trains collide with vehicles, even small ones like cars and pickup trucks, they are so light and fragile that many people on the train are injured or killed. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen here too but I still think North American trains are safer.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 05:01 AM   #182
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Quote:
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Yea but most of the time when european trains collide with vehicles, even small ones like cars and pickup trucks, they are so light and fragile that many people on the train are injured or killed. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen here too but I still think North American trains are safer.
Usually at the designing stage you eliminate same grade crossing for HSRs so you don't have to worry about striking a car or a truck.
There are naging problems called energy effeciency and maintenance when you have to run trains that weighs like a tank.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 08:50 AM   #183
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What you do if you have 100car loaded consist and lightweight loco? Just sit and watch the train. And for safety. Who says where is the line? I mean are we smart and think every step we take(watch both ways before go over rail, if somebody can see train approaching then don't try to win 30sec otherways lose their life) or just pay for fences and separate level crossings.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 02:59 PM   #184
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Wasn't there a collision with over two dozen dead in California a while ago? I believe that the train driver was texting instead of doing his job.

At least in the German case it was only a bunch of sheep that got killed.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 04:43 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Yea but most of the time when european trains collide with vehicles, even small ones like cars and pickup trucks, they are so light and fragile that many people on the train are injured or killed. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen here too but I still think North American trains are safer.
Being lighter doesn't mean more fragile. And most of the time people aren't injured on the train. The majority of trains hitting cars in the UK at level crossings involve the car being destroyed and the train unscathed. The problem is when the trains are going very fast - which is a problem you don't really have in the USA lets face it - the higher speed is the factor that causes the danger to the passengers inside the train.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 05:55 PM   #186
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There are naging problems called energy effeciency and maintenance when you have to run trains that weighs like a tank.
Actually,even the old steam engines weight more than a modern tank...at least twice.
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Old November 21st, 2008, 10:33 PM   #187
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Passenger trains in the U.S. are mostly diesel powered (since very little railway is electrified), thus the engines are heavier.
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Old November 22nd, 2008, 12:04 PM   #188
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USRA Heavy Santa Fe: 380,000 lbs, steam locomotive
GE Dash 9-40C: 392,000 lbs, diesel locomotive.
BR Class 43: 154,000 lbs, high speed diesel locomotive (148mph record speed 1987)
M1 Abrams tank: 135,000 lbs.

Last edited by elfabyanos; November 22nd, 2008 at 12:12 PM.
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Old November 22nd, 2008, 10:07 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
USRA Heavy Santa Fe: 380,000 lbs, steam locomotive
GE Dash 9-40C: 392,000 lbs, diesel locomotive.
BR Class 43: 154,000 lbs, high speed diesel locomotive (148mph record speed 1987)
M1 Abrams tank: 135,000 lbs.
Ok,then what I've found must have meant a whole train of a HSR.
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Old November 23rd, 2008, 12:35 AM   #190
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Well you are right about the weight of a steam train versus tank. And HSR trains are a reasonable weight, a Eurostar set is 1,650,000 lbs. But then the weight per passenger and weight per axle are relatively low making it viable as a high speed train.
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Old November 25th, 2008, 12:48 AM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Yea but most of the time when european trains collide with vehicles, even small ones like cars and pickup trucks, they are so light and fragile that many people on the train are injured or killed. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen here too but I still think North American trains are safer.
This is just utter BS. You need to learn some structural engineering.
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Old December 10th, 2008, 10:35 PM   #192
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(Edit)

Last edited by Jay; December 19th, 2008 at 07:47 AM. Reason: Edit
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Old December 10th, 2008, 10:37 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
The problem is when the trains are going very fast - which is a problem you don't really have in the USA lets face it - the higher speed is the factor that causes the danger to the passengers inside the train.

excellent
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Old December 11th, 2008, 12:41 AM   #194
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Old December 11th, 2008, 02:07 AM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Here is your "tough" Ice train after hitting a tree, seriously injuring passengers and the conductor.

Euro trains seem like they are built from tinfoil, they're like buses on rails.
Just because something looks more damaged doesn't mean that it's less safe.

Modern cars are much safer than cars of old that were built like tanks because they crumple.

I'm not saying trains work under the same principles, I'm merely saying you can't judge a train's safety on pictures.

You also can't measure a train system's safety by just the properties of the train. You also have to take into account the system it resides on.

A formula one car is extremely unsafe on public roads at any speed, but on the track, it's the opposite.

American trains aren't designed to travel on HSR rails, so you can't just compare the two.
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Old December 11th, 2008, 05:01 AM   #196
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American trains aren't designed to travel on HSR rails, so you can't just compare the two.
I don't think the Americans have any intentions of having their trains run on HSR rails.
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Old December 11th, 2008, 05:35 AM   #197
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They prefer flying instead. I don't think there will as much demand as in Europe/Japan even if they built it.
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Old December 11th, 2008, 05:36 AM   #198
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There are just too many wild animals in America for high speed rail. Just think about all the bears and bison .
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Old December 11th, 2008, 05:57 AM   #199
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Quote:
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There are just too many wild animals in America for high speed rail. Just think about all the bears and bison .
Bears and bison aren't everywhere y'know! I'm sure your average east coaster would love to see bears and bison roaming everywhere around NJ.
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Old December 11th, 2008, 06:23 AM   #200
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I'm sure passenger trains are more afraid of hitting these goats then anything else.
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