daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old June 26th, 2010, 01:38 PM   #361
makita09
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,536
Likes (Received): 92

Same in the UK, platforms are too high for most people to easily climb up. Pictures like that would never happen here.

I remember being at school and being shown educational videos by the police. I remember one particular point being that an electric train going at 100mph is so quiet that you typically only have 3 or 4 seconds to get out of the way once your ears have noticed it (unless your listening out for it and know what to listen out for).

And then they said if the train doesn't get you the electricity will. And then they told the story of many 10 year olds (same age as the kids in that class) who won a DA. It left an impression on us.
makita09 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old June 26th, 2010, 01:53 PM   #362
entfe001
Mosca Invader
 
entfe001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Girona
Posts: 4,401

Also note that, as 437.001 explained before, the platforms on the station where the accident happened are higher than those which appear on my photos, which are about half a meter, so the imprudence is even worse.

If I have some spare time this afternoon after I visit the Bon Pastor - Sagrera metro inauguration I might go to the fatal station to take some pictures and post them here.

However, even in FGC stations where the platforms are more than a meter high I witnessed people crossing the tracks, although obliously fewer than on Renfe network.
entfe001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2010, 03:38 PM   #363
gincan
Gincan
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 889
Likes (Received): 186

An easy way to eliminate this type of abuse is to use island platforms where it is completely impossible to enter or exit the station any other way than through the under or overpass. This is standard in many countries.
gincan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2010, 03:47 PM   #364
gincan
Gincan
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 889
Likes (Received): 186

Quote:
Originally Posted by entfe001 View Post
This is a design flaw, if you isolate the station from the platforms people are forced to use the tunnel, now it is simply much easier to cross the tracks and humans are by their nature lazy so they always seek the shortest route.
gincan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2010, 03:59 PM   #365
gincan
Gincan
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 889
Likes (Received): 186

Now here is an example of how you avoid people running across the tracks.

image hosted on flickr
gincan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2010, 04:14 PM   #366
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21258

Agreed. 46cm is too low to pose a challenge. In situations like this, as suggested, one should make it impossible to access the outermost platform from the street or station hall. Once someone has to take a tunnel anyway, chances are one is taking it from the island platform instead of taking a shortcut.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2010, 04:30 PM   #367
Aan
Beijing, China
 
Aan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,312
Likes (Received): 197

Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
This is a design flaw, if you isolate the station from the platforms people are forced to use the tunnel, now it is simply much easier to cross the tracks and humans are by their nature lazy so they always seek the shortest route.
it's not really design flaw, we have plattforms of same height in Slovakia and I never seen anyone crossing tracks anywhere where is tunnel available, it must have something to do with education and common sense

btw. I'm big fan of high plattforms, because of quicker passenger exchange in train (about 98% of trains in Slovakia are not low floor), 55cm is very low plattform

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1048797
Aan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2010, 05:43 PM   #368
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15482

Higher platforms are not the all-cure thing, though.

Iīve seen people in the Paris and Madrid underground climbing up and down those platforms, which are just as high as in the Tube in London.
It is true though that doing that in the underground is much more dangerous, and in both cases it was suburban gangs who were crossing.

Itīs a cultural problem, people in central Spain and northern Spain (Atlantic Spanish coast) are usually much more decent about doing these things than us mediterraneans. And I could talk about many other things.

Because crossing the tracks like lemmings is NOT decent.
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2010, 05:46 PM   #369
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15482

Quote:
Originally Posted by entfe001 View Post
Also note that, as 437.001 explained before, the platforms on the station where the accident happened are higher than those which appear on my photos, which are about half a meter, so the imprudence is even worse.

If I have some spare time this afternoon after I visit the Bon Pastor - Sagrera metro inauguration I might go to the fatal station to take some pictures and post them here.

However, even in FGC stations where the platforms are more than a meter high I witnessed people crossing the tracks, although obliously fewer than on Renfe network.
Eloi, I suggest you to put the pics of Cerdanyola-UAB in the national thread so people from other parts of Spain can make themselves an idea of what itīs like to be a train driver in suburban Barcelona and Tarragona (just in case you havenīt done it yet...).

It wouldnīt be a bad idea to send all these pics to a newspaper or a TV asking them to be published, either...
Itīs never been a better moment do to it.

Last edited by 437.001; June 26th, 2010 at 05:52 PM.
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2010, 06:01 PM   #370
Simon91
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore | Nusajaya
Posts: 1,534
Likes (Received): 241

All I can add, is that I actually spend few months in Barcelona some time ago and did take Renfe to Playa de Castelldefels and witnessed the sheer carelessness of the passengers every single time the train arrived. They just crossed the tracks from front and behind of the train whenever they alighted, not even paying attention if anything is coming on the second track. Its not a surprise to me at all that it happened.
Simon91 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2010, 12:01 AM   #371
rheintram
yeah, whatever
 
rheintram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,607
Likes (Received): 927

Only two years ago a similar accident happened close to my place. Some teenagers disembarked the train and wanted to reach the bus in front of the station as soon as possible. Instead of taking the underpass, they ran over the rail. They did not see that another train was coming on the second rail. An American girl, who was here on a year abroad, was pushed down to the ground because of the suction caused by the train. She hit her head and died on spot.

Horrible for all the teenagers there, horrible for her guest parents who had to tell the parents in the US that their daughter just died.

Still people don't learn and I often see people cross rails.
rheintram no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2010, 04:44 AM   #372
xerxesjc28
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Miami
Posts: 1,209
Likes (Received): 1214

well you can not really learn if you die, it is kinda over at that point. It is just an accident things like this happen all the time, I bet.
xerxesjc28 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2010, 05:13 AM   #373
Andre_idol
Fluorescent Adolescent
 
Andre_idol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Barcelos > Oeiras, Portugal
Posts: 6,261
Likes (Received): 431

Quote:
Originally Posted by xerxesjc28 View Post
well you can not really learn if you die, it is kinda over at that point. It is just an accident things like this happen all the time, I bet.
I bet the "friends" that were with her learnt a lesson...
__________________
School trip to: Brussels!
Andre_idol no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2010, 10:44 AM   #374
Koen Acacia
Registered User
 
Koen Acacia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Hague
Posts: 4,837
Likes (Received): 1917

Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
The signs are all in Spanish, so they perfectly knew what could happen to them, given the obvious fact that Ecuador, Colombia, and Bolivia speak Spanish, and they currently were living in... Spain.
And if itīs true that the accent is rather different (just as much as the Yorkshire and Texan accents are), "salida->" ("exit->" in Spanish) has exactly the same meaning in both Spanish and Southamerican accents...
I wasn't doubting their ability to read the signs, I was doubting their ability to assess the danger they were putting themselves in.
__________________
Every time I agree to Terms & Conditions without reading them first, I picture Johnny Rotten giving me a big thumbs up.
Koen Acacia no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2010, 01:59 PM   #375
Stainless
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pyeongnae
Posts: 420
Likes (Received): 34

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
So if you saw a crowd of people jumping off a cliff you would go join them? Just look to see if a train is coming, and don't linger because they come fast, it's very simple.
No, because I rarely ever want to be at the bottom of a cliff. The point is that if it saves a few seconds and everybody is doing it then it could look like a good idea to someone unfamiliar. It is a similar situation if you ever travel to somewhere in the third world, you would cross a busy street like the locals do, even though you would be shocked if someone did the same at home.
Stainless no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2010, 03:18 PM   #376
Jozsef Bedenek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 5
Likes (Received): 0

Prevention program of rail/road accidents

A few days ago we could witness a simulated level-crossing accident. Here an old car was hit by two diesel engines at 20 kph, the brake distance came out to be 50 metres. Since this is an international program, and (cause there's no injuries) it's quite spectacular, I was wondering wether it was, or it's going to be held in your country too.

result of crash:

Jozsef Bedenek no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2010, 08:50 PM   #377
Frank IBC
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 91
Likes (Received): 6

Here is a video of a very similar situation somewhere in northern India:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0CjDBndwc8

Luckily all escaped. This time.
Frank IBC no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2010, 09:49 PM   #378
rheintram
yeah, whatever
 
rheintram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,607
Likes (Received): 927

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre_idol View Post
I bet the "friends" that were with her learnt a lesson...
Recently someone told me that he knew one of the girls involved and that she had to visit a shrink to cope with the event.

I guess she won't cross tracks anymore, but unfortunately it doesn't prevent others from doing it.

In the end it's not really a problem of segregation, fences and banners, it's lack of awareness.
rheintram no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2010, 02:42 AM   #379
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15482

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koen Acacia View Post
I wasn't doubting their ability to read the signs, I was doubting their ability to assess the danger they were putting themselves in.
I know, I know...
It was an ironic way to point that I seriously doubt they bothered reading them.

Two rumours going on today, but as the enquiry is going on, I canīt tell if thereīs some truth behind them. One rumour says they were at the last train door trying to avoid the controller, and as the doors opened, they rushed across the rails. Another rumour says that there was a police control somewhere in the station (the underpass?) to check there werenīt glass objects as those people were going to a festival on the beach so they would have crossed the rails.
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2010, 01:52 PM   #380
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21258

I don't support fare dodgers AT ALL, though I don't think anyone deserves do die for it. But I agree many European countries have this problem in specific routes/days: big events catering for a young crowd that don't use trains frequently and find the idea of fare dodging too tempting.

In Italy, last year, they had a mini-riot in Bologna Station at the eve of the "Notte Bianca", a night-long concert (free) held in Rome (most famous) and other cities. The youths (14-17 mostly) used for a long time to just travel without any ticket in low-speed cheap trains to Rome, attend concert and come back. But, rightfully, Trenitalia 3/4 years ago started cracking down this practice with surprisingly effectiveness (mostly by restricting access to platforms in critical days/trains to ticketed passengers only). Then, in Bologna (a major rail junction for Italy, most busy station in the country), youths that had managed to get there from North couldn't travel onward to Rome. It was chaotic, other trains were diverted to nearby stations, and at one point most trains were halt because the bastards had steeped down in the tracks demanding trains to take them to the concert in Rome.

I don't know the specifics of this crowd in this station, but I can assure that when you gather young people + too much alcohol + an arrogant entitlement sense ("c'mon, one day, I don't have money but I have a right to travel regardless") + unprepared police/security, disaster will be waiting to happen.

Maybe (just guessing) they could reinforce police presence in stations when an unusual high flow of "problematic" people (young, drunk and in crowds) is expected.

Moreover, some easy (though not always cheap) measures can curb the attractiveness of most track crossing, like cutting direct access from street to outermost platforms, channeling all passengers to the same tunnel/overpass.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
sncf, spain in the world, tgv

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium