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Old June 28th, 2010, 03:23 PM   #381
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@ enfe001

thanks for those interesting pictures - unless I am mistaken, is there not a step between each platform and the track? If so, I would have thought that having such a thing would encourage people to cross the tracks irresponsibly (if there is a step I am assuming that is is meant for railway personnel use only though).
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Old June 28th, 2010, 05:27 PM   #382
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In the United States, in the DC Metro, there is a system that warns people of an approaching train. Granted nobody jumps to the tracks in the Subway.

More similar to this situation. In both Connecticut and Rhode Island, where the Acela Express runs at over 100mph, there is a warning system that alerts passengers to stay away from low level platforms tracks 15 seconds before a train approaches. If the stations don't have that warning system they should, but if people are too occupied or intoxicated to care, that's their fault and not the trains.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JioK-HxRHfE&feature=fvsr
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Old June 28th, 2010, 07:34 PM   #383
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kjoseph - no one crosses the tracks of the DC metro, although there are a depressing number of suicides. Some of those glass partition doors would be nice.
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Old June 28th, 2010, 10:34 PM   #384
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Jesus, how dumb are human beings? There shouldn't need to BE a warning system, you should see railroad tracks, look both ways and if a train is coming don't stand in front of it. If you get killed by a train, unless someone forcefully tied you to the tracks, you are a dumbass and it's your fault. Period.
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Old June 29th, 2010, 03:51 AM   #385
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The system in the DC metro is just a set of flashing lights along the platform. It's not really to people to get away from the track, it's to tell them to get ready to board. And it's intended primarily for hearing-impaired people who might not be able to hear the approaching train.
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Old June 29th, 2010, 04:47 AM   #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank IBC View Post
The system in the DC metro is just a set of flashing lights along the platform. It's not really to people to get away from the track, it's to tell them to get ready to board. And it's intended primarily for hearing-impaired people who might not be able to hear the approaching train.
That exists at least in one station of the Madrid commuter train system. I think it´s a good idea. Not that it helps much against suicides, though... but it´s something.
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Old June 30th, 2010, 12:33 PM   #387
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Europe does seem to have softer train horns than other countries, that may have played a part in it.
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Old June 30th, 2010, 01:27 PM   #388
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Anyone who's been near a track used mostly by fast electric trains knows how deceptively quiet they can be. Unless you're already looking out for it, or an audible warning is sounded by the train or station, the only sign that a train is coming is a vibration in the tracks a few seconds before it arrives. At that speed even the train's driver only has a few seconds to sound the horn after spotting people on the track. So in a crowd of loud partygoers, possibly with drinks involved, it's not surprising that they missed it until it was too late.

Of course, it's still their fault for not actually looking in the direction trains are coming from while crossing. That should be something as obvious as looking in both directions when crossing the road.

And many British stations have pre-recorded announcements warning of trains passing through without stopping, although they take so long that sometimes the train had already passed by the time the announcement is over.
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Old June 30th, 2010, 02:17 PM   #389
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Of course, it's still their fault for not actually looking in the direction trains are coming from while crossing. That should be something as obvious as looking in both directions when crossing the road.
No, its their fault that they crossed the tracks instead of taking the tunnel.
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Old June 30th, 2010, 03:06 PM   #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apoc89 View Post
Anyone who's been near a track used mostly by fast electric trains knows how deceptively quiet they can be. Unless you're already looking out for it, or an audible warning is sounded by the train or station, the only sign that a train is coming is a vibration in the tracks a few seconds before it arrives. At that speed even the train's driver only has a few seconds to sound the horn after spotting people on the track. So in a crowd of loud partygoers, possibly with drinks involved, it's not surprising that they missed it until it was too late.

Of course, it's still their fault for not actually looking in the direction trains are coming from while crossing. That should be something as obvious as looking in both directions when crossing the road.

And many British stations have pre-recorded announcements warning of trains passing through without stopping, although they take so long that sometimes the train had already passed by the time the announcement is over.
I've made a test here. I live near a small Dutch train station where trains (freight and passengers) commonly pass at 100km/h or more near the platforms. It is not a quiet place, so there are other noises, road traffic etc. If I am not paying attention, there are less than 6 or 7 seconds between the time I first hear a train and the train passes.
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Old June 30th, 2010, 03:30 PM   #391
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Here,there are announcements several minutes before a train arrives...though most stations have level pedestrian crossings. I guess people are just used to looking both ways before crossing.
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Old June 30th, 2010, 05:15 PM   #392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apoc89 View Post
Anyone who's been near a track used mostly by fast electric trains knows how deceptively quiet they can be. Unless you're already looking out for it, or an audible warning is sounded by the train or station, the only sign that a train is coming is a vibration in the tracks a few seconds before it arrives. At that speed even the train's driver only has a few seconds to sound the horn after spotting people on the track.
That's why everywhere else in the world has train horns that are extremely deep and loud and sound minutes before the train arrives.
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Old June 30th, 2010, 06:24 PM   #393
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No, its their fault that they crossed the tracks instead of taking the tunnel.
True, but I've run into pedestrian level crossings in the UK before, and after seeing photos of the station involved in this incident, I have to admit that the height of the platforms would make it very encouraging to cross on foot if other methods of reaching the other side become congested.

I'm just saying that if you have to cross rail tracks on foot, it should be treated with the same amount of care as crossing a busy road, which the partygoers here obviously didn't.

Quote:
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That's why everywhere else in the world has train horns that are extremely deep and loud and sound minutes before the train arrives.
Where exactly do you mean by "everywhere else in the world"? Certainly not anywhere with frequent commuter rail service, where trains laying on the horn "minutes" before passing through each station would be extremely disruptive. Not to mention that the noise will be so frequent that it would quickly lose its function as a danger signal.
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Old June 30th, 2010, 09:17 PM   #394
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Quote:
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Europe does seem to have softer train horns than other countries, that may have played a part in it.
Europe is not a country. I almost get a heart attack when a Swiss train is horning.
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Old June 30th, 2010, 11:53 PM   #395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apoc89 View Post
Anyone who's been near a track used mostly by fast electric trains knows how deceptively quiet they can be. Unless you're already looking out for it, or an audible warning is sounded by the train or station, the only sign that a train is coming is a vibration in the tracks a few seconds before it arrives. At that speed even the train's driver only has a few seconds to sound the horn after spotting people on the track. So in a crowd of loud partygoers, possibly with drinks involved, it's not surprising that they missed it until it was too late.

Of course, it's still their fault for not actually looking in the direction trains are coming from while crossing. That should be something as obvious as looking in both directions when crossing the road.

And many British stations have pre-recorded announcements warning of trains passing through without stopping, although they take so long that sometimes the train had already passed by the time the announcement is over.
The station has high platforms, an underpass, and pre-recorded announcements. But if you drink and possibly take substances... well.
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Old July 1st, 2010, 12:04 AM   #396
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The question is, should humans be treated as cattle when designing stations? my answer is no, people should respect the signals and be resposible. However, there is an exception, and this applies to all the stations that will be crowded at some point like near stadiums or other events... then yeah, go ahead and use kilometers or barbed wire if necessary. Somehow peoples stupidity increases when gathering in high number.
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Old July 1st, 2010, 02:08 AM   #397
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There must be a balance. Theoretically you wouldn't need not even fences near vantage point and observation decks in high buildings, people should just stay clear of edges. Theoretically, people going to stadiums and any other tight-packed venue wouldn't need crowd-control design, they should just behave rationally instead of rushing and crushing each other if something happens.

So, when possible, design should be used to avoid accidents.

Comparing with roads: it is indeed easy to get yourself killed if you jump in front of a car and get hit at 70 km/h (normal speed to be found in some places in every city). However, because people deal with cars every single day, as drivers or as passenger, they get used to them and manage to judge well when to cross, when not to.
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Old July 4th, 2010, 01:21 AM   #398
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Wow, I've never crossed a running train track, and i cant believe people do!

Of course only the odd nut case would do this in the UK, with the higher platforms. It isn't something that would ever cross anyone mind.

When I first saw this I presumed it was a pedestrian crossing - some UK lines have these, and people are sometimes killed on them.
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Old July 5th, 2010, 11:18 PM   #399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apoc89 View Post
True, but I've run into pedestrian level crossings in the UK before, and after seeing photos of the station involved in this incident, I have to admit that the height of the platforms would make it very encouraging to cross on foot if other methods of reaching the other side become congested.

I'm just saying that if you have to cross rail tracks on foot, it should be treated with the same amount of care as crossing a busy road, which the partygoers here obviously didn't.



Where exactly do you mean by "everywhere else in the world"? Certainly not anywhere with frequent commuter rail service, where trains laying on the horn "minutes" before passing through each station would be extremely disruptive. Not to mention that the noise will be so frequent that it would quickly lose its function as a danger signal.
Trains here in Canada rings a bell that can be heard 50 meters away over the sound of the engine as it enters.

Throughfare trains not stopping at a station in Canada always hit the horn if passing during day time hours.

Some American trains that travel to Canada will not only hit the horn, but it'll also repeatedly hit the horn until the point where you'd have to be blind to not see it. And for people who live close to the tracks (me), it really does sound like the end of the world.


Chinese trains, personal experience and videos, will always hit the horn before entering the station. Chinese stations will also announce the passing of a train and the track that it will use as throughfare. Not only that, Chinese trains also uses the Japanese HSR style horns that sounds like a horde of screaming elephants.



Heck even Toronto subway trains hit their horn on a passthrough.
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Old July 6th, 2010, 06:40 PM   #400
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Suicide pits and (wire?) fencing came to mind from listening to the report on this mishap, wherefrom we may have an instance where third rail trumps catenary ... ... ... maybe dummy third rails coupled to sensational, electric-looking, pictogrammed warnings might prove to be the deterrence

Last edited by trainrover; July 6th, 2010 at 06:48 PM.
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