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Old July 7th, 2010, 12:15 AM   #401
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Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
Suicide pits and (wire?) fencing came to mind from listening to the report on this mishap, wherefrom we may have an instance where third rail trumps catenary ... ... ... maybe dummy third rails coupled to sensational, electric-looking, pictogrammed warnings might prove to be the deterrence
That would do, until someone would discover the fake.
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Old July 7th, 2010, 12:18 AM   #402
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Unless it is actually wired into a 700V DC source, even if trains wern't running using it, it might work as good as an electric fence.
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Old July 7th, 2010, 01:02 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by UD2 View Post
Trains here in Canada rings a bell that can be heard 50 meters away over the sound of the engine as it enters.

Throughfare trains not stopping at a station in Canada always hit the horn if passing during day time hours.

Some American trains that travel to Canada will not only hit the horn, but it'll also repeatedly hit the horn until the point where you'd have to be blind to not see it. And for people who live close to the tracks (me), it really does sound like the end of the world.


Chinese trains, personal experience and videos, will always hit the horn before entering the station. Chinese stations will also announce the passing of a train and the track that it will use as throughfare. Not only that, Chinese trains also uses the Japanese HSR style horns that sounds like a horde of screaming elephants.



Heck even Toronto subway trains hit their horn on a passthrough.
Hmm, I think whether liberal use of horns is appropriate depends on the station really.

On distant rural stations/crossings which only get a few trains per day or week, I can see them being useful.

On a busy commuter(such as the one in which this accident took place) or intercity station which can get several trains per minute and is often located in the middle of a dense residential area, it would simply be too noisy and disruptive to both the passengers and locals if trains hit their horns every time they passed through. Your description of horns in countries that implement this policy as being like "the end of the world" and "a horde of screaming elephants" doesn't exactly make it look like a good idea.

In the UK you get a pre-recorded announcement which warns of a passing train and which platforms it is passing, occasionally a quick blip on the horn, and nothing more. Horn blares are reserved for actual emergencies. Seems to work fine.

Since it was the passengers who were responsible for this accident, any solution or restriction must be imposed on them, not the railways.
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Old July 7th, 2010, 01:07 AM   #404
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In the UK they only seem to hit the horn if theres a trainspotter on the platform, or if they can see people stood close to the platform before they enter.
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Old July 8th, 2010, 12:04 AM   #405
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That would do, until someone would discover the fake.
Alright, but come such a time, a would-be trespasser would have had ample time within which to reflect whether her/his shortcut be worthwhile.....tricky signage would function fine for passengers' immediate awareness.....the longer somebody decides at peforming a dangerous maneuvre, I think we'd find the less likely s/he'd be inclined to endanger either her/himself or others nearby.



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Originally Posted by G5man View Post
Unless it is actually wired into a 700V DC source, even if trains wern't running using it, it might work as good as an electric fence.
This is my favourite proposal thus far, although I'd lower the current to an intensity gauged for --say-- cows...




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higher platforms
Precisely.
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Old July 8th, 2010, 01:58 AM   #406
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In many parts of Asia, there are, for crowded lines at least, platforms walls that prevent passengers from getting near the edges, suicide, hearing impared and strollers (if you recall what happened in Australia) it may seem a bit extreme, but it prevents the unwarranted travel across tracks.
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Old July 8th, 2010, 11:19 PM   #407
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In many parts of Asia, there are, for crowded lines at least, platforms walls that prevent passengers from getting near the edges, suicide, hearing impared and strollers (if you recall what happened in Australia) it may seem a bit extreme, but it prevents the unwarranted travel across tracks.
It´s okay, but the question is, is it worth it spending a lot of money in idiot-proof railways, or is it better to spend that money in far more needed extensions of the net or upgrading of stations and trains?
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Old July 8th, 2010, 11:51 PM   #408
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The best idoit proof..

simply plaster this news report permanently all over the train staion. with the words.

Cross the Tracks = Die.
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Old July 9th, 2010, 12:22 AM   #409
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Old July 9th, 2010, 10:07 AM   #410
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We have Fences and announcements for our busier lines and safe crossing areas.

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Old July 9th, 2010, 05:28 PM   #411
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Guys, I can't believe I'm reading some of this stuff! I mean... in my native Denmark, which doesn't have ANYTHING that can be called highspeed trains, the maximum speed for passing railway stations is 140 km/h. There's an announcement over the loudspeakers that "Passthrough train is approaching. Please step back from the tracks". There are no fences, walls or (unlike the Bangkok sky train...) angry officials blowing whistles, and the train drivers are legally prohibited from using their horns except in the case of imminent danger. People simply do not cross the tracks. It couldn't be simpler. Just don't... cross... the... blinking... tracks!
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Old July 11th, 2010, 04:33 AM   #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Republica View Post
In the UK they only seem to hit the horn if theres a trainspotter on the platform, or if they can see people stood close to the platform before they enter.
Last time I was in the UK I saw on TV that a "dangerous guy" had trespassed into the railway ... trains in an area of about 100 miles werethen STOPPPPPED untill the prevaricator was identified and removed.


Aparently it was just an old drunk that had fallen asleep in the main tracks of WCML somewhere up north ... .

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Originally Posted by Republica View Post
Wow, I've never crossed a running train track, and i cant believe people do!

Of course only the odd nut case would do this in the UK, with the higher platforms. It isn't something that would ever cross anyone mind.

When I first saw this I presumed it was a pedestrian crossing - some UK lines have these, and people are sometimes killed on them.
It's very common around most european countries ...

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Originally Posted by Andres_Low View Post
The question is, should humans be treated as cattle when designing stations? my answer is no, people should respect the signals and be resposible. However, there is an exception, and this applies to all the stations that will be crowded at some point like near stadiums or other events... then yeah, go ahead and use kilometers or barbed wire if necessary. Somehow peoples stupidity increases when gathering in high number.

Railways on denselly urbanized corridors SHOULD/MUST be completelly segregated ... stations should be built/upgraded as to allow for safe passage even at peak times.


Old times:




Nowadays:
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Old July 11th, 2010, 04:36 AM   #413
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Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
It´s okay, but the question is, is it worth it spending a lot of money in idiot-proof railways, or is it better to spend that money in far more needed extensions of the net or upgrading of stations and trains?
spending monwey in IDIOT PROOF protections is always better than spending it on psichological treatment for train drivers and massive dosis of industrial solvents to remove blood stains from EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old July 11th, 2010, 12:12 PM   #414
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Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
Guys, I can't believe I'm reading some of this stuff! I mean... in my native Denmark, which doesn't have ANYTHING that can be called highspeed trains, the maximum speed for passing railway stations is 140 km/h. There's an announcement over the loudspeakers that "Passthrough train is approaching. Please step back from the tracks". There are no fences, walls or (unlike the Bangkok sky train...) angry officials blowing whistles, and the train drivers are legally prohibited from using their horns except in the case of imminent danger. People simply do not cross the tracks. It couldn't be simpler. Just don't... cross... the... blinking... tracks!
You're not the only one, I'm feeling precisely the same way. It's like a country-wide warning system for pedestrians when they're approaching a highway. I thought it was common sense to all but the totally lunatic that pedestrians do not enter highways or cross train tracks.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 01:46 AM   #415
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Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
Guys, I can't believe I'm reading some of this stuff! I mean... in my native Denmark, which doesn't have ANYTHING that can be called highspeed trains, the maximum speed for passing railway stations is 140 km/h. There's an announcement over the loudspeakers that "Passthrough train is approaching. Please step back from the tracks". There are no fences, walls or (unlike the Bangkok sky train...) angry officials blowing whistles, and the train drivers are legally prohibited from using their horns except in the case of imminent danger. People simply do not cross the tracks. It couldn't be simpler. Just don't... cross... the... blinking... tracks!
About seven years ago in some other Canadian city, some 160Km/Hr intercity train whipped its way through an inner-city, twin-tracked commuter station. The driver sounded its feeble bell but didn't whistle (horn); there was no announcement either over the PA-equipped platforms either (actually, there was some announcement only minutes before the intercity's passing, telling inbound commuter passengers to cross over to the other track [separate platform]! for their train, because it was being routed onto the other track). The train 'kicked' up some loose ballast really fast; I heard the pebble(?) zing by me, and wouldn't you know it, the blight of ballast hit the next passenger to me, about 20 metres away, squarely in the eye, to the point where he was blinded, in pain, and yelped out for anybody to help him as he stumbled about the low platform (there was another passenger waiting closer to him who was able to claw him away from the sides of the rushing coaches). Further proof why tall platforms are necessary.

Very yankeelandish, were anybody to ask me...




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Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
Astonishing! that train was filmed bouncing around FAR TOO much for high speed rolling stock...

Last edited by trainrover; July 14th, 2010 at 01:52 AM.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 08:28 AM   #416
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Originally Posted by Koen Acacia View Post
You're not the only one, I'm feeling precisely the same way. It's like a country-wide warning system for pedestrians when they're approaching a highway. I thought it was common sense to all but the totally lunatic that pedestrians do not enter highways or cross train tracks.
Your comparison with a highway is very good, Koen. I hadn't thought of that. Perhaps that's why - if I've understood it correctly - the victims of the Spanish accident were from South America? From what I've seen their train pass through stations (and other places...) at a snail's pace. It will not have occurred to them that a train could come thundering out of the darkness at 200 km/h. Still... when in Rome, do like the Romans.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 03:17 PM   #417
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Astonishing! that train was filmed bouncing around FAR TOO much for high speed rolling stock...
From my understanding, isn't the Acela a "pseudo-high speed" train like the UK's Pendolinos, in that it runs on conventional track and uses tilting technology to navigate around curves? I wouldn't expect it to meet all the requirements of proper HSR.

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Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
Your comparison with a highway is very good, Koen. I hadn't thought of that. Perhaps that's why - if I've understood it correctly - the victims of the Spanish accident were from South America? From what I've seen their train pass through stations (and other places...) at a snail's pace. It will not have occurred to them that a train could come thundering out of the darkness at 200 km/h. Still... when in Rome, do like the Romans.
I considered that, someone from a country with little/no rail service, or where trains are huge, slow, loud things, might not expect one to quietly zoom through a small commuter station at high speed. But from what I've heard about this station, crossing the tracks seems to be a common thing by both locals and immigrants alike.

In any case, I think the best solution seems to be raising the platforms to discourage people from climbing up and down them, although if the trains are built to accommodate the lower height, then it may cause accessibility problems.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 11:29 AM   #418
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From my understanding, isn't the Acela a "pseudo-high speed" train like the UK's Pendolinos, in that it runs on conventional track and uses tilting technology to navigate around curves? I wouldn't expect it to meet all the requirements of proper HSR..
Most definitely correct. Acela is exactly that except with electric propulsion.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 01:22 PM   #419
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Most definitely correct. Acela is exactly that except with electric propulsion.
The Pendolino is electric too btw. The Bombardier Super Voyager (aka the Vomet Comet) is used by the same train company and aren't electric but there aren't many of them.
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Last edited by makita09; July 15th, 2010 at 01:36 PM.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 01:24 PM   #420
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From my understanding, isn't the Acela a "pseudo-high speed" train like the UK's Pendolinos, in that it runs on conventional track and uses tilting technology to navigate around curves? I wouldn't expect it to meet all the requirements of proper HSR.
Still it shouldn't be bouncing around like that. But UK Pendolinos would have done the same. And if the Acela was brought to the WCML in the UK they wouldn't bounce. The problem is the quality of that track in that footage.
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