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Old May 1st, 2008, 03:39 AM   #121
Galls
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arriaca View Post
I think Acela is a italian train (Pendolino)
No, it was made by Bombarier (German) in consultation with both Amtrak and the FRA. To bad somewhere along the line someone made the pig 4 inches too wide and now it cannot fully use its tilting ability.
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Old May 1st, 2008, 11:43 AM   #122
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Bombardier is Canadian. No German company was involved in the construction of the Acelar Express, therefore it should be save to drive it through herds of sheep or cattle.
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Old May 1st, 2008, 02:34 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by C-Beam View Post
Bombardier is Canadian. No German company was involved in the construction of the Acelar Express, therefore it should be save to drive it through herds of sheep or cattle.
I thought it was Canadian, my bad.

I looked it up on Wikipedia and it stated it was headquartered in Berlin.
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Old May 1st, 2008, 06:25 PM   #124
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Bombardier took over Adtranz which was German, and hence it bases a lot of it's rail operations in Germany, but if I'm right Bombardier already had a railway business before that acquisition, and certainly Adtranz was independent when Acela was being developed.
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Old May 1st, 2008, 07:41 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Galls View Post
The Acela is built just as strong as any other American train. All the extra weight makes it comparatively slow as hell to High Speed but our FRA made sure it was built like a tank.


How much does an acela loco/cars weigh in comparison to a TGV or ICE?


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If it were that obvious a solution all of the very many highly skilled and highly paid railway engineers from all over the world would have thought of it. The ICE is built by probably the most highly skilled train designers on the planet, with equals only in France and Japan.


I just want to know their reasoning.
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Old May 2nd, 2008, 02:50 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Jay View Post
How much does an acela loco/cars weigh in comparison to a TGV or ICE?






I just want to know their reasoning.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/24/national/24acela.html

According to the article almost twice as much. A google search wouldn't kill you.
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Old May 2nd, 2008, 03:31 AM   #127
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Some time ago a portuguese Alfa Pendular (fiat tilting train) hit a lorry/truck and this was the result:







Derailments are caused by "something small" getting in front of the 1st wheels or "something big" lifting the nose or the 1st bogie of the leading car/coach/locomotive

In the 1st case even a 150 ton american locomotive gets defeated by newtons laws ... in the second case you "might" get lucky and have enought momentum to get rid of the nuinsance ... even a dozen cows (6/7 tons of pre-sliced-beef ???) can put a lot of stress on the leading bogie of a AC4000 (?) leading to its derailment ... you just need a little upwards movement to get the job done.

Those 75 (and counting?) sheep's legs on top of the rails certainly made a lot of potential candidates to explain "how" they managed to derail that ICE train.

EDIT: notice that the AP didn't even derail ... but the "destruction" is more looks than actualy something whrong ... its just glass fiber on those shiny bullet train noses actualy ... its there just to get smassed on a frontal colision ... less impact-damage on other vehicles/people it hits and always there's a better protection behind it (usualy some hidden dampers and high tech shock absorvers without the need to be streamlined)
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Old May 4th, 2008, 08:47 PM   #128
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If the train hit the truck and not the cab, why did the driver die? The cab looks untouched in the photos.

Some other media reports said that the truck ran into the train, what actually happened?
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Old May 5th, 2008, 01:02 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
If the train hit the truck and not the cab, why did the driver die? The cab looks untouched in the photos.

Some other media reports said that the truck ran into the train, what actually happened?
Ok dude, just look at the photos above and it's quite obvious what happened. The truck was hit whilst traversing the crossing, the front of the train hit the side of the road vehicle. The forces involved are written all over the front of the TGV where the impact occurred. It doesn't matter that those forces are not visible on the front end of the truck. The truck obviously suffered massive instant lateral acceleration, hence why it is many metres down the track. The superstructure of the cab can withstand those kinds of lateral forces, but people can't. That's why the driver unfortunately died. The cab stayed intact, no doubt with a giant hole in the side of the truck somewhere. I have to say, it's really not that hard to work out, just look at the photos.

Last edited by elfabyanos; May 5th, 2008 at 02:10 AM.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 02:37 AM   #130
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if that were 100% true then the truck driver at bourbonnais would have died, but he escaped injury even when a train going 80mph struck the back of his truck.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 11:01 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
Ok dude, just look at the photos above and it's quite obvious what happened. The truck was hit whilst traversing the crossing, the front of the train hit the side of the road vehicle. The forces involved are written all over the front of the TGV where the impact occurred. It doesn't matter that those forces are not visible on the front end of the truck. The truck obviously suffered massive instant lateral acceleration, hence why it is many metres down the track. The superstructure of the cab can withstand those kinds of lateral forces, but people can't. That's why the driver unfortunately died. The cab stayed intact, no doubt with a giant hole in the side of the truck somewhere. I have to say, it's really not that hard to work out, just look at the photos.
I tremble to correct you, Elfabyanos, since we established recently that you know the French LGV network better than I who live in Paris. But, ceci dit, I suggest you take a look at this site, which sheds additional light on what went wrong: http://rhone-alpes-auvergne.france3....7622124-fr.php. Apparently, the truck wasn't simply some local delivery vehicle caught in the wrong place, but used by the public services for infrastructure work (hence also its extreme weight). Also, the reason that it was on the track was that the driver had overestimated the height of the security booms on the opposite side of the tracks. By the time he realised he couldn't get through the booms had lowered on both sides because of the approaching train. He was trapped, and descended on the tracks but before he could do anything more he was hit by the TGV in an impact so severe it totally shattered the back of the truck.

The TGVs run pretty fast on the conventional track in this part of France, I must say. Perhaps an argument for getting rid of the level crossings? There was another nasty accident two years back at a level crossing near Laval in the west country. Looking at the photos there is one thing to be said for the TGV technology, though: a more flexible train taking such a frontal impact would have folded up like an accordion, with massive damage to the passengers. (This has regrettably happened to ICEs on a couple of occasions.) Whenever something nasty happens to a TGV it just (well...) runs off track and stands there, stiff like a ramrod.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 04:39 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by priamos View Post

The TGVs run pretty fast on the conventional track in this part of France, I must say. Perhaps an argument for getting rid of the level crossings? There was another nasty accident two years back at a level crossing near Laval in the west country. Looking at the photos there is one thing to be said for the TGV technology, though: a more flexible train taking such a frontal impact would have folded up like an accordion, with massive damage to the passengers. (This has regrettably happened to ICEs on a couple of occasions.) Whenever something nasty happens to a TGV it just (well...) runs off track and stands there, stiff like a ramrod.

I thought the TGV's metal was meant to crumple up to absorb the impact (which works well). That has got to be the most damage I have ever seen to a locomotive in any train vs. truck incident. Here in the US, the locomotives (at least the freight ones) don't really sustain damage at all upon hitting a 40 ton truck (maybe cracked headlights and glass) but the metal is like a tank.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 05:03 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
It seems like too much damage on the train.

I mean seriously... watch these.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=s2oN3uTBa8w
i wonder why the barrier goes down just a few seconds before train is passing the road.
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Old May 6th, 2008, 10:02 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by priamos View Post
I tremble to correct you, Elfabyanos, since we established recently that you know the French LGV network better than I who live in Paris. But, ceci dit, I suggest you take a look at this site, which sheds additional light on what went wrong: http://rhone-alpes-auvergne.france3....7622124-fr.php. Apparently, the truck wasn't simply some local delivery vehicle caught in the wrong place, but used by the public services for infrastructure work (hence also its extreme weight). Also, the reason that it was on the track was that the driver had overestimated the height of the security booms on the opposite side of the tracks. By the time he realised he couldn't get through the booms had lowered on both sides because of the approaching train. He was trapped, and descended on the tracks but before he could do anything more he was hit by the TGV in an impact so severe it totally shattered the back of the truck.

The TGVs run pretty fast on the conventional track in this part of France, I must say. Perhaps an argument for getting rid of the level crossings? There was another nasty accident two years back at a level crossing near Laval in the west country. Looking at the photos there is one thing to be said for the TGV technology, though: a more flexible train taking such a frontal impact would have folded up like an accordion, with massive damage to the passengers. (This has regrettably happened to ICEs on a couple of occasions.) Whenever something nasty happens to a TGV it just (well...) runs off track and stands there, stiff like a ramrod.
Fair enough I stand corrected. I still believe the inference that had the driver been in the truck he would have remained intact because the cab remained intact is erroneous.

Re. the LGV network, I wouldn't claim to know better if I didn't have the Réseau Ferré de France's own map, as you didn't respond to me before I assumed you didn't want me to post it but I'll check the details and post it later. Lille Europe is built on the LGV, albeit with a slightly lower than normal linespeed, and they decided to build that LGV right through the centre of Lille, hence the reason why trains do not need to go around the centre.
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Old May 6th, 2008, 02:17 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
Fair enough I stand corrected. I still believe the inference that had the driver been in the truck he would have remained intact because the cab remained intact is erroneous.
True. People also sometimes die in airplane cabins due to clear-sky turbulence. It's not the g-effect that gets them - it's that thing about getting slammed against the roof of the plane...

For very similar reasons did the train driver escape without serious injuries whereas many of his passengers took a hit: he was the one wearing a seatbelt and hence wasn't thrown about on impact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
Re. the LGV network, I wouldn't claim to know better if I didn't have the Réseau Ferré de France's own map, as you didn't respond to me before I assumed you didn't want me to post it but I'll check the details and post it later.
By all means do. I checked www.rff.fr myself to see if I could find it, but without much success. I didn't respond to your previous posting because I had nothing to add. I suppose they take the non-stop Eurostars through Lille Europe on a separate track - perhaps shielded from the platforms - which may have misled me to believe that I was passing through a bona fide tunnel. Otherwise I cannot explain why I have been driving through a railway station time and again without noticing.
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Old May 6th, 2008, 02:59 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by priamos View Post
True. People also sometimes die in airplane cabins due to clear-sky turbulence. It's not the g-effect that gets them - it's that thing about getting slammed against the roof of the plane...

For very similar reasons did the train driver escape without serious injuries whereas many of his passengers took a hit: he was the one wearing a seatbelt and hence wasn't thrown about on impact.



By all means do. I checked www.rff.fr myself to see if I could find it, but without much success. I didn't respond to your previous posting because I had nothing to add. I suppose they take the non-stop Eurostars through Lille Europe on a separate track - perhaps shielded from the platforms - which may have misled me to believe that I was passing through a bona fide tunnel. Otherwise I cannot explain why I have been driving through a railway station time and again without noticing.
It's impossible to find, only found the link because another forumer posted it on the European HSR map thread, otherwise I would have had to copy it from my other computer which is at home. http://www.rff.fr/biblio_pdf/pages_f...tes_carte1.pdf is the one with the whole network on it, Lille area is expanded on the top right. http://www.rff.fr/biblio_pdf/fr_docref_anx_6_3.pdf is the one with linespeeds on it, however on the system I'm looking at it it's coming out all jaggedy with not very much info on it (might be my version of adobe which I can't update here). If you have no luck with it I have it at home I think.
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Old May 7th, 2008, 05:17 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by priamos View Post
I suppose they take the non-stop Eurostars through Lille Europe on a separate track - perhaps shielded from the platforms - which may have misled me to believe that I was passing through a bona fide tunnel. Otherwise I cannot explain why I have been driving through a railway station time and again without noticing.
Lille Europe has six tracks, the two in the centre going through something like a gallery which is covered by the station's commercial areas right above. Only the outer track pairs have platforms, so trains that don't stop in Lille Europe use those semi-hidden middle tracks, though not at 300 km/h (rather 220 km/h I'd say).
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Old May 10th, 2008, 11:24 PM   #138
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Why did they touch the bogie? Has anyone heard of wheel guards? seems like an obvious soloution...
Because of aerodynamics, a high speed train is designed like an aeroplane, not like a freight train.
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Old May 12th, 2008, 10:34 AM   #139
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The Germans are very funny with the High Speed Trains and the accidents who had with them.
In Europe are always behind the Frenchs.
Not to mention the Japanese, the country that leads in railway technology ...
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Old May 12th, 2008, 12:50 PM   #140
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Germany is very successful in selling high speed trains, Japan is not even near.
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