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Old May 12th, 2008, 02:28 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoKo65 View Post
Germany is very successful in selling high speed trains, Japan is not even near.
That's because Japanese don' t want to sell their technology ...
Until recently (Taiwan) you couldn't see Shinkansen outside Japan.

Not to mention that Germans know very well how to play the game (Siemens...)
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Old May 16th, 2008, 04:22 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
Bombardier took over Adtranz which was German, and hence it bases a lot of it's rail operations in Germany, but if I'm right Bombardier already had a railway business before that acquisition, and certainly Adtranz was independent when Acela was being developed.
Acela is a 100% bombardier project (with electric part suplied by French Alstom).
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Old May 16th, 2008, 05:07 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR-fan View Post
That's because Japanese don' t want to sell their technology ...
Until recently (Taiwan) you couldn't see Shinkansen outside Japan.

Not to mention that Germans know very well how to play the game (Siemens...)

Shinkansen sold their trains/tech to China as well.
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Old May 16th, 2008, 05:08 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoKo65 View Post
Germany is very successful in selling high speed trains, Japan is not even near.
But Japanese train technology is superior. They are always ahead of the game look at their current Fastech trains.
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Old May 17th, 2008, 08:56 AM   #145
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And that's why the commercial variant of the Fastech, the E5 will only have a maximum speed of 320 km/h while the Siemens Velaro, Alstoms TGV and AGV and the Talgo 350 are/will be all faster.

In reality non of these trains are superior to each other, they're all complicated and especially very very fast.


And will a Shinkansen derail when it hits a herd of sheep at high speed? It probably will, but since you won't find any herds of sheep near any of the Shinkansen routes it will very unlikely that it will happen. But just wait until the Hokkaido Shinkansen is opened and wait until a train hits a few cows.
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Old May 17th, 2008, 08:04 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post

And that's why the commercial variant of the Fastech, the E5 will only have a maximum speed of 320 km/h while the Siemens Velaro, Alstoms TGV and AGV and the Talgo 350 are/will be all faster.
The Fastech will travel with 320, because of strictly noise regulations in Japan.
Japan is the birthplace of High Speed Trains and they still lead the railway technology ...
You can' t compare only speed.
Velaro carries about 400 passengers and the average Shinkansen carries more than 1200 ...
Not to mention the frequency of the services.
The Shinkansen is complete HSR system (like TGV) and is simply the best.
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Old May 17th, 2008, 10:51 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
Bombardier took over Adtranz which was German, and hence it bases a lot of it's rail operations in Germany, but if I'm right Bombardier already had a railway business before that acquisition, and certainly Adtranz was independent when Acela was being developed.
product of Bombardier, Germany (for e.g.)

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Old May 19th, 2008, 10:39 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR-fan View Post
The Fastech will travel with 320, because of strictly noise regulations in Japan.
Japan is the birthplace of High Speed Trains and they still lead the railway technology ...
You can' t compare only speed.
Velaro carries about 400 passengers and the average Shinkansen carries more than 1200 ...
Not to mention the frequency of the services.
The Shinkansen is complete HSR system (like TGV) and is simply the best.
OK, two TGV Duplex coupled together have a capacity of 1024 passengers with the sames lenght as a standard 16 car Tokaido Shinkansen (1323 seats) and that with 4 power cars without any seats. The TGV Sud-Est has a capacity of 12 trains every hour, same as the Tokaido Shinkansen. The big difference is passenger numbers, but that's because Tokyo is just bigger then Paris. The same goes for Lyon and Marseille that are just smaller then Nagoya and Osaka.

Now look at comfort, the Velaro wins easily from the Shinkansen when it comes to seat comfort. The regular 2nd class of the DB ICE 3 is just far more comfortable and luxurious then the rather plain Shinkansen. That's not good for the total passenger numbers per train, that's why 2 coupled ICE 3 trains (in length comparable with a Tokaido Sinkansen set) only has a capacity of 900 seats.

ICE and TGV have a bigger reach then the Shinkansen since they can go of the HSL lines to reach other cities that are not directly connected. This results in more direct services, in other words a better service for more people.

I can go on and on about the differences and the similarities but in the end of the day I can only conclude that non of the trains is superior.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 04:14 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR-fan View Post
Japan is the birthplace of High Speed Trains and they still lead the railway technology ...
You can' t compare only speed.
Velaro carries about 400 passengers and the average Shinkansen carries more than 1200 ...
Not to mention the frequency of the services.
The Shinkansen is complete HSR system (like TGV) and is simply the best.
They don't carry more passengers because of a technical superiority but because Shinkansen trains have more cars and Japanese specifications allow those cars to be wider, enough for one more seat per row. If two 8-car Velaro CN trains (build to Chinese specifications and thus as wide as a Shinkansen) were coupled they'd also offer 1200 seats.

Shinkansen technology might be more advanced in some aspects, but is not as sophisticated as its European counterparts in others, their signalling system being one example.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 01:09 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AR1182 View Post
They don't carry more passengers because of a technical superiority but because Shinkansen trains have more cars and Japanese specifications allow those cars to be wider, enough for one more seat per row. If two 8-car Velaro CN trains (build to Chinese specifications and thus as wide as a Shinkansen) were coupled they'd also offer 1200 seats.
In the same way if two Shinkansens coupled together (theoritically) how much seats do we have ? 2,600 ?
The fact is that Shinkansen has better passenger capacity than TGV or Velaro ..
Talking about luxury the Shinkansen has ALL the seats REVERSED in the way the train moves ...
What about Velaro ? How can you travel in 300 kmph (ad not get sicked) and you face the opposite direction ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AR1182 View Post
Shinkansen technology might be more advanced in some aspects, but is not as sophisticated as its European counterparts in others, their signalling system being one example.
Why the ETCS is better than the Japanese signalling systems ?
How did you come to this conclusion ?
The N700 has computer cotrolled tilting mechanism, neither TGV or ICE has simillar feature.
Not to mention how ended the German efforts in this field ...
And I don' t understand where is more sofisticated the european trains when TGV isn' t a really EMU and Velaro has less horsepower than the Shinkansens ...

Which of these trains can compete for example with the series 500 Shinkansen ?
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Old May 21st, 2008, 03:11 AM   #151
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With all due respect, this is beginning to sound like one of those senseless "mine is bigger than yours" arguments.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 02:37 PM   #152
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Shinkansen's are not as great as some people are led to believe. At the least ones I've been on has had virtually no space for large bags, which leaves many travellers in a complicated situation.

Then again, most Japanese people I saw on the Shinkansen's never carried large bags. I don't know if this was because they always like to travel light (though they certainly don't when travelling abroad) or because they already know there is nowhere to put them.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 08:11 PM   #153
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In Japan people send their baggage by courier, they have a very efficient and not too expensive courier system, leaving many tourist with a problem. In the end of the car behind the last row of seats there's a space for your baggage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AR1182 View Post
With all due respect, this is beginning to sound like one of those senseless "mine is bigger than yours" arguments.
It's even more weird, since it's basically a "mine is bigger" vs "were all a bit different but we have the same size" discussion.

but.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR-fan View Post
Talking about luxury the Shinkansen has ALL the seats REVERSED in the way the train moves ...
What about Velaro ? How can you travel in 300 kmph (ad not get sicked) and you face the opposite direction ?
.......You don't get sick riding backwards with 300 km/h, not even the people on the Shinkansen that have to stand backwards when it's busy. It's sometimes even more relaxing, watching the landscape fading away into the distance. Families on the Shinkansen often turn one of the rows around so they can face each other, they don't have problems riding backwards (it also creates a space for baggage).
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Old May 21st, 2008, 11:04 PM   #154
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I don't want to argue any more in this theme.
Everybody who is studying the High Speed Trains knows that the Japan is the country that leads in railway technology and this is shown from 1964 with the opening of the first Shinkansen (where the Germans were in that time?).
I don' t want to enter the discussion which HSR is the best, everyone can compare the facts from two systems (actually only the Shinkansen is HSR system-the ICE has mixed lines in most cases).
Of course, you guys can believe that the Velaros trains that runs in your countries is better, your right ...
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 10:56 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR-fan View Post
I don't want to argue any more in this theme....
You say, and then continue arguing.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 12:34 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by JR-fan View Post
Of course, you guys can believe that the Velaros trains that runs in your countries is better, your right ...
Actually you're the only one trying to argue that one train is superior to all others.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 03:32 AM   #157
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Not only me bro.
I saw a report from third party (the California High Speed Authority) that says that the Shinkansen has the largest passenger capacity from all High Speer Train Systems and proposes the Japanese to take the project.
I can send you the study if you want ...
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 10:08 AM   #158
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Why do you think that passenger capacity has anything to do with superiority? I personally think that the Japanese system is 'the best', but I cannot understand what you are talking about, its nonsense.
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Old May 24th, 2008, 12:29 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by JR-fan View Post
Not only me bro.
I saw a report from third party (the California High Speed Authority) that says that the Shinkansen has the largest passenger capacity from all High Speer Train Systems and proposes the Japanese to take the project.
I can send you the study if you want ...
In spite of the quote, you took what I wrote way out of context.
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Old May 24th, 2008, 10:16 PM   #160
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Four weeks later and you're still arguing about some "sheeps" on the track ...
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