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Old October 18th, 2010, 06:07 AM   #41
Tom 958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
How about expansion plans? Are there any?
No.
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Old October 18th, 2010, 12:39 PM   #42
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Compared with others north american transit sistems, MARTA looks very modern.
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Old October 18th, 2010, 02:44 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
How about expansion plans? Are there any?
There are some expansion plans for the MARTA system as a whole, but not the heavy rail component. They are in preliminary planning for a loop light rail line, but it will be years before it gets built - if at all.

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Old October 18th, 2010, 08:22 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FabriFlorence View Post
Compared with others north american transit sistems, MARTA looks very modern.
It's only about 30 years old, compared with, say, New York's or Boston's, which are over 100 years old. MARTA is only a little newer than Washington's WMATA Metro.

A similarly designed heavy-rail system was planned for Seattle at the same time, but the measure to have it built there was defeated by 6% points.
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Old October 18th, 2010, 08:35 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
How about expansion plans? Are there any?
MARTA is hamstrung by a lack of funding from the State of Georgia. There are numerous reasons for this--"taxophobia", racism, a bias against anything urban (the "poor minority criminals will use public transportation to invade our clean, safe suburbs argument"). Many residents of the surrounding counties to Atlanta use MARTA but these counties don't pay into the system for expansion or maintenance. Barring huge shifts in the way the Americans look at rail/public transport, little will happen.

There were originally going to be several more spurs; most of these aren't being considered anymore, or will be built as BRT or light-rail (a mistake).

The English-language Wikipedia article has a good section on these.

Most of the proposed extensions were "no-brainers". Case in point, Emory University could easily be served by MARTA if a small extension were made, but voters won't vote to fund it. It's a sad situation, but Atlanta should count itself lucky it got MARTA when it did.
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Old October 18th, 2010, 09:38 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan78 View Post
MARTA is hamstrung by a lack of funding from the State of Georgia. There are numerous reasons for this--"taxophobia", racism, a bias against anything urban (the "poor minority criminals will use public transportation to invade our clean, safe suburbs argument"). Many residents of the surrounding counties to Atlanta use MARTA but these counties don't pay into the system for expansion or maintenance. Barring huge shifts in the way the Americans look at rail/public transport, little will happen.
Sounds like Baltimore. It's a shame most mass transit gets a bad wrap in the US but yet is viewed fine everywhere else in the world. It's like soccer.
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Old October 18th, 2010, 11:42 PM   #47
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Atlanta did just get a grant from the federal givernment for a streetcar starter line.
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Old October 19th, 2010, 11:18 PM   #48
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Hmm, not sure how I missed that:
The black route in DT is the route that is funded:

From: http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2...over-beltline/

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Old October 19th, 2010, 11:19 PM   #49
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DP
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Old October 20th, 2010, 10:54 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tampasteve View Post
Hmm, not sure how I missed that:
The black route in DT is the route that is funded:
Steve
This, to me, is just bizarre and unneeded. The "Peachtree streetcar" pretty much duplicates the existing heavy-rail line!! Granted, streetcars and subways serve different purposes, and the new streetcar could relieve some pressure from the subway, but the money would be much better spent elsewhere (there are large areas of Atlanta with no rail transit...why not expand MARTA there first before worrying about a streetcar that duplicates an existing route).

MARTA is a good start but there are wide swaths of even the central city that are completely unserved (see the map above). Atlanta should concentrate on those before trying to duplicate existing routes.
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Old October 20th, 2010, 11:20 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan78 View Post
This, to me, is just bizarre and unneeded. The "Peachtree streetcar" pretty much duplicates the existing heavy-rail line!! Granted, streetcars and subways serve different purposes, and the new streetcar could relieve some pressure from the subway, but the money would be much better spent elsewhere (there are large areas of Atlanta with no rail transit...why not expand MARTA there first before worrying about a streetcar that duplicates an existing route).

MARTA is a good start but there are wide swaths of even the central city that are completely unserved (see the map above). Atlanta should concentrate on those before trying to duplicate existing routes.
I think the Peachtree streetcar would be more useful if it continued all the way into Buckhead.
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Old October 21st, 2010, 12:16 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan78 View Post
This, to me, is just bizarre and unneeded. The "Peachtree streetcar" pretty much duplicates the existing heavy-rail line!! Granted, streetcars and subways serve different purposes, and the new streetcar could relieve some pressure from the subway, but the money would be much better spent elsewhere (there are large areas of Atlanta with no rail transit...why not expand MARTA there first before worrying about a streetcar that duplicates an existing route).

MARTA is a good start but there are wide swaths of even the central city that are completely unserved (see the map above). Atlanta should concentrate on those before trying to duplicate existing routes.
The only way that's going to happen if Atlanta and surrounding suburbs secede from state of Georgia, and the Federal government is willing to give more money to MARTA.
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Old October 21st, 2010, 03:16 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan78 View Post
This, to me, is just bizarre and unneeded. The "Peachtree streetcar" pretty much duplicates the existing heavy-rail line!! Granted, streetcars and subways serve different purposes, and the new streetcar could relieve some pressure from the subway, but the money would be much better spent elsewhere (there are large areas of Atlanta with no rail transit...why not expand MARTA there first before worrying about a streetcar that duplicates an existing route).

MARTA is a good start but there are wide swaths of even the central city that are completely unserved (see the map above). Atlanta should concentrate on those before trying to duplicate existing routes.
I agree to an extent. Perhaps the whole Peachtree line does not need to be built, but a DT circulator is needed. MARTA is great, but there is not enough DT connections outside of the core area and this starter line will help that a lot. Perhaps another loop to the west would be better than a line up Peachtree.

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Old October 24th, 2010, 07:00 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan78 View Post
This, to me, is just bizarre and unneeded. The "Peachtree streetcar" pretty much duplicates the existing heavy-rail line!! Granted, streetcars and subways serve different purposes, and the new streetcar could relieve some pressure from the subway, but the money would be much better spent elsewhere (there are large areas of Atlanta with no rail transit...why not expand MARTA there first before worrying about a streetcar that duplicates an existing route).

MARTA is a good start but there are wide swaths of even the central city that are completely unserved (see the map above). Atlanta should concentrate on those before trying to duplicate existing routes.
I'm a skeptic, too, but the MLK streetcar idea looks a lot less bizarre on the ground than it does on a map. Downtown Atlanta is quite a big place, very spread out, and there's an increasing need to provide service for connections within the greater downtown area, as you noted.

During the 00's housing boom, many new apartment/condo developments were built in infill locations within half a mile to two miles of downtown, most in areas that aren't within walking distance of the HRT system. The northwestern quadrant has been especially popular; starting at Centennial Park, it spreads outward for several miles, past Georgia Tech and all the way to the Chattahoochee Industrial District. Plus, in recent years Georgia State University has gone from being an entirely commuter school to having dorms several blocks from the campus. This year I worked on a hospital project near the corner of Edgewood and Piedmont, and there's substantial foot traffic between GSU and dorms located north along Piedmont. Add to that traditional traffic to Grady Hospital, the Municipal Market and the King District (which is a significant commercial area as well as a historic/tourist attraction) and there are a lot of potential transit users (or at least people who could opt not to drive) in play.

When the first phase of the MARTA HRT system opened in the summer of 1979, it ended temporarily at Georgia State station, one stop from the system's hub at Five Points (I mean not just the rail system's central station-- the bus routes that serve downtown also ended their routes at or within a few blocks of Five Points). To remedy this irritatingly inconvenient disconnect, the Downtown Loop bus was introduced. It ran (IIRC) along Piedmont and Courtland on the east side, Harris and International to the north, Spring and Techwood (now "Centennial Olympic Park Drive" ) on the west, and Mitchell and King on the south, with buses every ten minutes. In addition to connecting the temporarily-orphaned East line with the rest of the MARTA system, it provided handy service to the periphery of Downtown, and it continued in service for several years after the rest of the downtown rail lines were opened. IMO, we'd be a great deal better off now had the service never been discontinued, and I'd suspect that restarting it today would be a good idea.

But...

Atlanta has been long caught in in the vicious cycle of increasing costs, higher fares and declining ridership that besets many other cities. In fact, it's worse here than it is in many places since a huge proportion of the region's growth occurs in suburban areas that (a)are outside the two-county MARTA service area and (b) would be impossible to serve efficiently with transit even if they weren't. The last HRT extension, to the Perimeter Center area in 2000, increased operating costs enough to force a fare increase, which lead to an overall decline in ridership despite nominally "better" service. We simply can't afford to operate more rail under current funding mechanisms, even if we could afford to build it. Since then, the vicious cycle has forced service cutbacks across the board, to the point where infrequent service makes transit an unappealing option even in places that still have bus and/or rail lines nearby.

IMO, the way forward for transit in Atlanta is a wholesale reform of the funding mechanism. Until that happens, sad as it is, we need to concentrate on fine-grained service improvements that can claw additional ridership out of the legacy network. Unless Bill Gates decides to make it his pet project, the Beltline is just silly, though there are many people who believe otherwise with almost religious fervor.

Since no one's mentioned it yet: GRTA runs an extensive system of commuter express buses:


AFAIK, the GRTA bus routes are largely optimised for the people who use them, not operated as feeders to the regional system, with stops that are convenient to workplaces and only incidental connections to the rail system. There are also several semipublic and private bus shuttles providing a finer grain of service. This is in contrast to MARTA's decades-long practice of subordinating buses to rail and forcing riders into transfers (or long walks) that ought not be necessary.

Last edited by Tom 958; October 24th, 2010 at 08:08 PM. Reason: spellcheck ftw :/
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Old October 24th, 2010, 07:29 PM   #55
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Guys where are pics of MARTA? Could yu post some more?
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Old August 18th, 2011, 10:33 AM   #56
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Old August 18th, 2011, 10:58 AM   #57
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Some more photos of the MARTA system in Atlanta:

















































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Old August 18th, 2011, 11:10 AM   #58
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Old August 18th, 2011, 05:53 PM   #59
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That is pretty nice set of pics. Thx
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Old August 20th, 2011, 11:12 AM   #60
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Quote:
Regional transportation list approved
By Ariel Hart
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-poli...d-1111374.html

Five mayors and county commissioners from across the Atlanta region made history on Monday, agreeing unanimously on a $6.14 billion list of transportation projects to be built across 10 counties, and paid for by the region as a whole if approved in a 2012 referendum.

The list is a first draft, and can be changed over the next two months. There will be opportunities for the public to be heard.

If the projects are built, in just over a decade passengers could be riding trains from Atlanta to Cobb County or to Emory University, or traveling new, swifter ramps through the Ga. 400/I-285 interchange, or finding countless arterial roads wider and less clogged, from Henry County to Cherokee County and all points in between.

The list marks the first time that Atlanta regional leaders have divided up a major transportation funding plan for the region, deciding how much goes to roads and transit based on their own wishes.

The projects will get built only if voters approve a 1 percent sales tax to pay for them in a referendum next year. A final draft of the list must be approved by Oct. 15.

The 5-0 vote capped four hours of grueling line-by-line cuts and negotiations, and occasional moments of drama. The committee has been working on the list all summer, but forced itself to face many of the hardest cuts only in the final meeting.

“Hallelujah!” said the group’s nonvoting chairman, Norcross Mayor Bucky Johnson, after Kennesaw Mayor Mark Mathews offered the final $7.5 million in cuts from a mass transit line that will go to Cobb County.

As the group voted unanimously to approve the list, laughter, broad smiles and applause spread throughout the room. “I’m speechless after that,” said Johnson.

Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed started the negotiations Monday offering to cut $10 million from the city’s allocation for the Beltline transit loop. Other cuts accepted Monday included big ones such as $47 million for an interchange at I-20 and I-285, which dropped from the list completely, and small ones such as $1 million from a $19 million project on Ga. 140 in Fulton County.

A bus project for the eastern I-20 corridor that could eventually lead to a rail project stayed on the list, but dropped from $250 million to $225 million, appeasing some concerned residents of south DeKalb County.

“This is a victory for the region,” said Reed, who played a central role in the negotiations, and is credited as key in getting the referendum law passed last year. “I think what turned the tide is not quitting and not being overcome by frustration or anger. There were a couple of moments where the conversation and the work could have gone either way. And I think all of the members did a good job of walking that back.”

The 10-year tax is expected to raise $7.2 billion, of which $6.1 billion goes to the regional project list. The other $1.1 billion may be spent by counties and cities on transportation projects of their choosing.

Committee members and staff worked through the weekend as the group grappled with $420 million in cuts that needed to be made, to bring their tentative list from last week into line with their budget. But they still arrived Monday -- a deadline for a draft list, under state law -- substantially over budget. In the end, a combination of newfound funding and cuts made the budget work.

The new funding is not really new: The Atlanta Regional Commission will attempt to move $120 million into the list from another pot of money that is set aside for cost overruns in the region’s regular transportation budget. Staff said that the region would still have substantial amounts of money left for overruns there.

Of the cuts, one of the largest — $80 million toward Georgia Regional Transportation Authority Xpress bus service — came from Gov. Nathan Deal.

During one of the many recesses Monday, Johnson and Reed left to go find him at the Capitol. In a quick huddle with his top staff, Deal said if $80 million dropped from GRTA’s allocation in the sales tax, he would accept that and ask the Legislature to fund it with state money as part of it currently is. The list originally contained $180 million for GRTA. Every project on the list has a project advocate, and GRTA’s is Deal, who appoints the GRTA board.

Reed and Johnson returned flush with victory, and announced the new figure. But the motion failed, as members from outlying counties voted against it, drawing an awed groan from the audience. Later, the cut was approved.

By state law, the final draft has until Oct. 15 to win approval from the full 21-member "roundtable" of mayors and county commissioners from each of the 10 counties. They will now hold two months of public comment, in a dozen meetings across the region, to gauge whether changes need to be made to improve the list's chances for passage in 2012.

For some voters, that seems unlikely. Monday morning, about 20 tea party members gathered in the Capitol, many from Fayette County, to lambaste the transportation tax, and efforts that are under way to move the 2012 referendum vote from the July primary to the November general election.

"They want to skew the outcome," said Debbie Dooley, one of their leaders. Dooley added that she would consider the tax proposal only if the portion going toward mass transit were 25 percent or less. The portion approved in the draft Monday is about 55 percent, according to the Atlanta Regional Commission.

People voicing support for transit, including one in a wheelchair, were at the roundtable meeting Monday where the list was being formed. They pressed roundtable members to keep MARTA funding in the list, and praised Reed during the breaks for doing his part.

In the end, some members of the roundtable, including Gwinnett County Chairwoman Charlotte Nash and Henry County Chairwoman B.J. Mathis, say the list still needs tinkering, but if questions are answered, they could support it. Reed, for his part, thinks it's good to go.

What’s on the list (for now)

Here’s a look at some highlights from the draft list of $6.14 billion in projects that passed Monday. It still must go before the full roundtable. Some projects could get additional state or federal money.

Atlanta: Beltline, likely streetcars, consists of several sections, $600 million

Cherokee County: Widening Ga. 140 (Hickory Flat Highway), $190 million

Clayton County: Turning Tara Boulevard into a "super arterial," $130 million

Cobb County: Atlanta to Cumberland, possibly light rail, $856.5 million

DeKalb County: Clifton Corridor MARTA route to Emory University, $700 million

Douglas County: Widening Lee Road/South Sweetwater Road from I‐20 West to U.S. 78, $18.9 million

Fayette County: Widening Ga. 85 from Bernhard Road to Grady Avenue, $24 million

Fulton County: Improvements for the interchange of I-285 at Ga. 400, $172.5 million

Gwinnett County: Sugarloaf Parkway extension from Ga. 316 to Ga. 20 (Buford Drive), $296 million

Henry County: Widening North McDonough Road from Bill Gardner Parkway to Racetrack Road, $48 million

Rockdale County: Widening and improvements for Sigman Road from Lester Road to Dogwood Connector, $30 million

Some other notable projects


In some cases, the dollar amounts are what the sales tax would fund when supplemented with other sources (such as federal funds).

Mass transit

MARTA state of good repair funding (various upgrades), $600 million

Restore Clayton County local bus service, $100 million

Preliminary work on a possible light-rail line from Doraville into Gwinnett County, $95 million

Georgia Regional Transportation Authority Xpress bus service, $100 million

Eastern MARTA extension in I-20 corridor, $225 million

Gwinnett express bus service, $40 million

MARTA heavy-rail extension north to Ga. 140, $37 million

Roads

Interchange improvements at I-285 West at I-20 West, $149 million

Interchange improvements at Spaghetti Junction, $53 million

Replacing Courtland Street Bridge in Atlanta, $22 million

Widening Lake Acworth Drive from Cobb Parkway to Cherokee Street in Cobb, $29.1 million

Widening Ga. 360 (Macland Road) from Paulding County line to New Macland Road/Lost Mountain Road in Cobb, $30 million

North Druid Hills Road from Buford Highway to Lawrenceville Highway corridor improvements in DeKalb, $25 million

Widening Arnold Mill Road in north Fulton County, $46 million

Widening Camp Creek Parkway from I-85 to Welcome All Road in south Fulton, $60.3 million

Widening Ga. 141 (Peachtree Parkway) from Peachtree Industrial Boulevard to Chattahoochee River, $46 million

Widening Five Forks Trickum Road in Gwinnett, $10.4 million

Widening Thornton Road in Douglas County, $43 million

Widening U.S. 23/Ga. 42 from Ga. 138 to Ga. 155 in Henry, $44 million

Building a new East Fayetteville Bypass, $49 million

Aviation

New air traffic control tower at McCollum Airport in Cobb, $2.5 million

Runway approach lighting system at McCollum, $690,000

Bike/pedestrian

Buford Highway pedestrian, landscape and bus improvements in DeKalb, $12 million

Lawrenceville Highway multi-use trail and pedestrian improvements in Gwinnett, $1.9 million
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