daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old November 16th, 2011, 12:53 AM   #81
Slartibartfas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vedunia
Posts: 11,609
Likes (Received): 5972

I don't think the length is a problem if the frequency is very high and at least one stop connects directly to a big public transportation hub but I think the one directional track is.
__________________
"Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a Titanic success of it.”
Boris Johnson, Foreign Secretary, UK
Slartibartfas no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old November 16th, 2011, 03:11 AM   #82
Tom 958
Registered User
 
Tom 958's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: near Atlanta
Posts: 786
Likes (Received): 163

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
I don't think the length is a problem if the frequency is very high and at least one stop connects directly to a big public transportation hub but I think the one directional track is.
West of Peachtree, the line runs mostly on one-way streets in the contraflow direction.

The regional sales tax that'll be on the ballot next year includes funding for extending the streetcar eastward along Irwin Street, then northward along the Beltline to the southeast corner or Piedmont Park, plus westward to North Avenue near the Coca Cola building. There'd also be a corridor running the Beltline starting at Cascade Road, north to Bankhead Station, then east along Hollowell Parkway, Northside Drive, North Avenue and Ponce (the same route as US 78!) to the Beltline at the old Sears building. The map I've seen shows the two streetcar lines neatly teeing into each other there, but, gee, I dunno.

It still won't "conect suburbs with city center," but at least it'd kind of go somewhere useful to Atlanta residents.

Last edited by Tom 958; November 16th, 2011 at 03:18 AM.
Tom 958 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 8th, 2012, 05:03 AM   #84
diablo234
Oh No He Didn't
 
diablo234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,297

Considering that there is already an existing thread for Public Transit in Atlanta I find this particular thread to be redundant.

Atlanta | Public Transit

Maybe the two threads should be merged?
diablo234 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 9th, 2012, 07:09 PM   #85
ParadiseLost
Registered User
 
ParadiseLost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Delft, The Hague, Rotterdam
Posts: 219
Likes (Received): 14

It's a very impressive system for what amounts to be the least urban major 'city' in the world. However with cost per mile being such a major issue in Atlanta and many major US cities, why don't they invest instead in a (electrified) rapid bus system which connects to the current system? It seems to be quite economical and a big success in Bogota for example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransMilenio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_rapid_transit

Would seem like a great option for Los Angeles and maybe Houston and Dallas as well.
ParadiseLost no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2012, 02:56 AM   #86
Gag Halfrunt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 719
Likes (Received): 27

Los Angeles already has two bus rapid transit lines.

If you're going to invest in an electric power system to run trolleybuses on your BRT lines, you might as well go all the way and build light rail instead. BRT is what you build if you can't afford the track, the trains, the overhead catenary, etc.
Gag Halfrunt no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2012, 02:54 PM   #87
tampasteve
Registered User
 
tampasteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,395
Likes (Received): 258

Quote:
Originally Posted by ParadiseLost View Post
It's a very impressive system for what amounts to be the least urban major 'city' in the world. However with cost per mile being such a major issue in Atlanta and many major US cities, why don't they invest instead in a (electrified) rapid bus system which connects to the current system? It seems to be quite economical and a big success in Bogota for example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransMilenio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_rapid_transit

Would seem like a great option for Los Angeles and maybe Houston and Dallas as well.
Interesting point, but Houston and Dallas may not be the best US examples. Houston is rapidly expanding its light rail network and Dallas has the largest light rail system in the USA plus commuter rail and street car. Maybe better examples for the USA would be my home town of Tampa, Austin, or Raleigh, NC.

Steve
__________________
There are only two days in the year that nothing can be done. One is called Yesterday and the other is called Tomorrow. Today is the right day.
tampasteve no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2012, 09:21 PM   #88
ParadiseLost
Registered User
 
ParadiseLost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Delft, The Hague, Rotterdam
Posts: 219
Likes (Received): 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gag Halfrunt View Post
Los Angeles already has two bus rapid transit lines.

If you're going to invest in an electric power system to run trolleybuses on your BRT lines, you might as well go all the way and build light rail instead. BRT is what you build if you can't afford the track, the trains, the overhead catenary, etc.
It's still going to be more expensive with the tracks and trains I would guess. Also BRT would be more flexible as you CAN run cars on those lanes if you want to at a later point (or maybe run taxis and carpools on them or allow other kind of limited access).

I did read up on the two LA lines after I posted this btw. Would be interested to know in how they are doing. I don't really have any experience with BRT. I didn't use it much in Curitiba when I was there and I don't think I've seen it anywhere else I've been. But I saw a docu recently that mentioned Bogota as a successful example, was pretty interesting.
ParadiseLost no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2012, 11:54 AM   #89
Tom 958
Registered User
 
Tom 958's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: near Atlanta
Posts: 786
Likes (Received): 163

Quote:
Originally Posted by ParadiseLost View Post
.. .why don't they invest instead in a (electrified) rapid bus system which connects to the current system?
Because Atlanta doesn't have wide arterials all over the place like Bogota and Curitiba. That's also why so much of the rail system was built in freight rail corridors
Tom 958 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2012, 05:55 PM   #90
ParadiseLost
Registered User
 
ParadiseLost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Delft, The Hague, Rotterdam
Posts: 219
Likes (Received): 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom 958 View Post
Because Atlanta doesn't have wide arterials all over the place like Bogota and Curitiba. That's also why so much of the rail system was built in freight rail corridors
Interesting, I haven't been to Bogota but google maps seems to agree with you.
Curitiba, not so much. It seems like Atlanta is much more gifted when it comes to quantity of big arterial roads compared to Curitiba. I can't say my personal experience with the two cities conflicts that. But then again my experience with Atlanta especially is very limited.
ParadiseLost no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 14th, 2012, 10:35 PM   #91
tampasteve
Registered User
 
tampasteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,395
Likes (Received): 258

Some Brazilian cities have either done or talked of eliminating a auto travel lane for mass transit. That makes building BRT or LR easier as you do not have to buy any new ROW.

Try that in the USA. While I would be OK with it (since I am heavily pro-transit), most people would not be, especially when you have the local populous voting for or against a transit funding proposal.

Steve
__________________
There are only two days in the year that nothing can be done. One is called Yesterday and the other is called Tomorrow. Today is the right day.
tampasteve no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 14th, 2012, 10:58 PM   #92
Woonsocket54
PC LOAD LETTER
 
Woonsocket54's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: East Millinocket, Maine
Posts: 5,660
Likes (Received): 5780

It's just a local populace.
Woonsocket54 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2012, 12:29 AM   #93
ParadiseLost
Registered User
 
ParadiseLost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Delft, The Hague, Rotterdam
Posts: 219
Likes (Received): 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by tampasteve View Post
Some Brazilian cities have either done or talked of eliminating a auto travel lane for mass transit. That makes building BRT or LR easier as you do not have to buy any new ROW.

Try that in the USA. While I would be OK with it (since I am heavily pro-transit), most people would not be, especially when you have the local populous voting for or against a transit funding proposal.

Steve
Well that's probably the best way to do it. Since any successful transit system would have to transport more people on that lane in rush hour than it would otherwise carry. And supposedly also remove more traffic from the road than the lane would carry, which I also think should be a threshold criteria for such a system methinks. That's a pretty potent argument to sell such a system politically (though I know political arguments in the US are not usually about the actual real world).
ParadiseLost no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2012, 06:41 PM   #94
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21253

Except that public transportation renders you, the user, a slave of Union-ridden, corrupt MARTA with its bus and train drivers who think they are heroes of their communities as if they were firefighters or paramedics and then receive oversized payments and lavish benefits.

So it greatly reduces the personal freedom of movement you have with a car, and leave you at the bequest of transit planner who "know better than you" where you should live or work, and plan transit systems to restrict or push you to live in certain areas if you dare to work somewhere else by limiting non-radial services within Atlanta MSA.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2012, 06:58 PM   #95
Woonsocket54
PC LOAD LETTER
 
Woonsocket54's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: East Millinocket, Maine
Posts: 5,660
Likes (Received): 5780

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
a slave of Union-ridden, corrupt MARTA
__________________

TM_Germany liked this post
Woonsocket54 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2012, 12:07 AM   #96
ParadiseLost
Registered User
 
ParadiseLost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Delft, The Hague, Rotterdam
Posts: 219
Likes (Received): 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Except that public transportation renders you, the user, a slave of Union-ridden, corrupt MARTA with its bus and train drivers who think they are heroes of their communities as if they were firefighters or paramedics and then receive oversized payments and lavish benefits.

So it greatly reduces the personal freedom of movement you have with a car, and leave you at the bequest of transit planner who "know better than you" where you should live or work, and plan transit systems to restrict or push you to live in certain areas if you dare to work somewhere else by limiting non-radial services within Atlanta MSA.
I like you sub, your opinions are generally so ridiculous that it is quite amusing to read. Once in a full moon you also actually have something interesting to say! Not this time though, but don't fret it was fun to read.

It's true though, what's happening in Atlanta is horrid. Soviet union Marta Gestapo forcing freedom loving patriotic drivers at gun point to take the subway, probably to places they don't even want to go like concentration camps and the like. Just terrible!
__________________

TM_Germany liked this post
ParadiseLost no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2012, 02:39 AM   #97
Rail_Serbia
Registered User
 
Rail_Serbia's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Beograd
Posts: 964
Likes (Received): 670

I watched on Google Earth the railroad network around Atlanta, and find out that, for those very sprawl suburbs, the best solution may be commuter rail with park & rides, bike & rides, and (somewhere) circular bus lines like feeder lines, with schedule oriented to commuter rail. There are railways in the middle of downtown, and the best location for commuter rail hub is Atlanta Philips Arena, Georgia World Congres Center, W1 station on east-west metro line.

I can`t understand why they plan light rail for so long distance, like from Acworth, and why they plan short new lines, when there is railway corridor in the heart of downtown. City which have railway (not in-city railway) in the center of the center is a rich city. London, Bratislava and some other cities around the world, build very expensive central corridors, when Atlanta has it, don`t use it for passenger transport, and plan shortened commuter rail lines

I found that Atlanta urban area could have 9 legs of commuter railways:

Temple - Villa Rica - Winston - Douglasville - Lithia Springs - Austell - Mableton - Highlands - Riverview - Atlanta Philips Arena.
Douglas - Hiram - Powder Springs - Austell - Mableton - Highlands - Riverview - Atlanta Philips Arena.
Acworth - Kennesaw - Marietta - Fair Oaks - Smyrna - Stone Wall - Vinings - Olde Ivy - Underwood Hills - Atlanta Philips Arena.
Buford - Sugar Hill - Suwanee - Duluth - Railway Museum - Norcross - Doraville - Between N5&N6 - Atlantic Station - Atlanta Philips Arena.
Dacula - Lawrenceville - Gwinnett - Liburn - Tucker - North Druid Hills - Emory - Between N5&N6 - Atlantic Station - Atlanta Philips Arena.
Acworth - Kennesaw - Marietta - Fair Oaks - Smyrna - Stone Wall - Vinings - Olde Ivy - Underwood Hills - Atlantic Station - Between N5&N6 - Emory - North Decatur - Decatur - Scottdale - Clarkstone - Stone Mountain - Redan - Lithonia - Conyers - Shiloh - Covington.
Griffin - Experiment - Sunny Side - Hampton - Lovejoy - Bonanza - Jonesboro - Morrow - Lake City - Forest Park - Hapeville - East Point - West End Station - Atlanta Philips Arena.
Senoia - Peachtree City - Tyrone - Union City - East Point - West End Station - Atlanta Philips Arena.
Newnan - Palmetto - Fairburn - Union City - East Point - West End Station - Atlanta Philips Arena.

At the beginning there could be lessen number of stations, not all lines, and few (2-6) round trips on work day in rush hours. Under consideration could be a station between Atlantic Philips Arena and Atlantic Station, where streetcar loop line cross the regional rail tracks. Subway station between N5&N6 is important for transfer. The most of railways are single track. For all day 1-2 trains/hour/direction frequency, some legs need doubletracking, some legs only intermediate 2 tracks stations. Travel times from suburban end stations to downtown Atlanta need to be 40-60 minutes. Investing in downtown station need to be serious, and central north-south tracks between East Pint and north railway junction.
__________________

Chilenofuturista liked this post
Rail_Serbia no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2012, 04:27 PM   #98
Professor L Gee
Fan of skylines, highways
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Newport News, VA (hometown); Raleigh, NC (current)
Posts: 257
Likes (Received): 21

Atlanta Union Station used to be in (or at least very near) the spot you named, with Terminal Station not far away. Both are gone now.

This is the best proposal map I've seen for Atlanta commuter rail. Many of the routes you've suggested line up with what's here.
Professor L Gee no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 18th, 2012, 04:00 AM   #99
Tom 958
Registered User
 
Tom 958's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: near Atlanta
Posts: 786
Likes (Received): 163

Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor L Gee View Post
Atlanta Union Station used to be in (or at least very near) the spot you named, with Terminal Station not far away. Both are gone now.

This is the best proposal map I've seen for Atlanta commuter rail. Many of the routes you've suggested line up with what's here.
In 1995, Georgia DOT released a study for a regional commuter rail system. Twelve lines were studied: the ones to Athens, Senoia and Bremen were recommended as Phase One, the ones to Gainesville, Canton and Madison ( I think that one went further, to Greensboro), Phase Two. Six more, to Cedartown, Rome, Cartersville, Newnan, Jackson, and Barnesville (or was it Forsyth?) were found not to be viable. Actually, the analysis found that the Gainesville line would outperform the Senoia and Bremen lines, but the others were selected for Phase One because they were much cheaper and because it wouldn't do politically for both lines serving Gwinnett County to be in Phase One. Also, according to my (admittedly dubious) analysis of the study results, the Barnesville (now Macon) corridor would've been viable for Phase Two had it ended at Griffin-- ridership beyond there was really low.

All of the lines would've served a new Union Station located across Forsyth Street from MARTA's Five Points station and connected to it by a direct passage under Forsyth Street. This, not W1, was and is the ideal place for such a station, with no transfer required to access the entire MARTA rail system and quite a few bus routes as well.

The service plan was for three trains inbound in the morning, three outbound in the evening, and (IIRC) two midday round trips and one in the evening. Except: the Athens line would've had four trains at peak hours and a fifth between Reagan Parkway and Union Station. In agreement with Rail_Serbia's proposal, the plan was to add passing sidings as needed (or, sometimes, link two existing sidings into one really long one) rather than systematically double tracking.

The big difference between the current proposal and the 1995 proposal was... the 1995 plan considered and rejected using the segment of rail through Atlantic Station. That segment is circuitous and dumps trains right into the busiest part of Atlanta' freight rail network. Instead, the Athens line would've used this short link to bypass Emory and join the same corridor that the Madison lines used. The Gainesville line would've used the Beltline corridor to access that same corridor closer to the city center. Thus, four of the six lines would've avoided the congested northwestern area. Under the current scheme, four of seven lines dump right into it.


The Athens Line actually made it into the TIP in the late '90's, for initial service in 2003, but was never built. And now the Beltline corridor has been appropriated as a park/trail system and, in the dreams of many, a future transit corridor. No way commuter rail will ever go there.

EDIT: The GDOT map seems to call for the Gainesville and Emory/Athens lines to converge to a single corridor so they can both serve Atlantic Station. In fact, the difference in elevation between the two lines where they cross is great, and building a connection between them is at the very limits of feasibility.

I've long had a fantasy about a second east-west rail corridor connecting Cobb County (Marietta, etc.) to Emory and central Gwinnett in something resembling Rail_Serbia's scheme. Now, though, my thinking is more along the lines of extending the proposed Emory light rail line (which I predict will never be built) directly by deep tunnel from N6 Lindbergh station to the Cumberland area, with a station in the very heart of Buckhead, near Peachtree and Roswell Roads. I can dream, can't I?

Oh: Good work, Rail_Serbia! Thinking things out is fun.

Last edited by Tom 958; May 19th, 2012 at 03:24 PM. Reason: added various stuff
Tom 958 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 27th, 2012, 04:49 AM   #100
bat_naso
the journey is the reward
 
bat_naso's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: у наше село
Posts: 377
Likes (Received): 539

very fancy planning and fantasizing Tom. However, I lived in the ole ATL for more than 5 years and became intimately familiar with infrastructure network in the city.

First of all, you have to account for the racial/income makeup of the metro area, which most people don't say out loud - has a huge impact on transportation planning. The northern counties don't want anything to do with MARTA for reasons of lower classes of people appearing in their wealthy suburbs, preferring instead to drive their SUVs on clogged highways such as the 400, 75 and 85.

Also, the car culture of the american suburbanite doesn't fit with the european notion of public transport. This also has to do with point 1 above - if you ever take the train to anywhere south of Midtown you will experience why. The panhandlers, homeless, the dilapidated downtown area are something most people try to avoid. If you go to the airport by marta, you will also be looking over your shoulder at all times, in particular after dark. If you're a single women traveling after dark on the system, please DON'T!

Anyways, Atlanta has its nice point, however, as a whole, am I glad to be out of that place!
bat_naso no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
atlanta, georgia (us state)

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium