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Old June 3rd, 2012, 03:55 AM   #121
joezierer
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If that happens it will blow my mind. Growing up down there I would never believe in a competent rail system there.

Are they gonna start getting state funding?
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Old June 3rd, 2012, 03:21 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeimieLvr View Post
Excellent post!
Yes, but I'd to add something: I spent an exciting few years in the mid/late '90's as an activist on transportation and development issues, focusing on Gwinnett County. My specialty was reframing sprawl issues in such a way as to appeal to conservative suburban homeowners, of which I happen to be one. I found it to be fun and easy: As the old saying goes, when you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is to stop digging. And Gwinnett and other jurisdictions do a lot of digging by imposing sales taxes to pay for sprawl infrastructure rather than imposing impact fees. Suburbanites who are angry at having to deal with overburdened infrastructure should be, and to some extent were, receptive to the idea that new development should pay to address the problems it causes rather than dumping the costs of doing so onto existing residents. Those of a libertarian/free market bent could see the wisdom of using a market mechanism to increase the price of problematic sprawl development and decrease the price of strengthening existing neighborhoods. And I never heard a coherent answer to the question of why Gwinnett homeowners should subsidize the building of new homes that will compete with theirs in the marketplace while making their own neighborhoods less desirable.

I was also fond of pointing out that those who chose to adopt an urban lifestyle were doing suburbanites several favors: keeping their cars off of our road, keeping their ozone precursors out of our air, and getting more use out of our rather expensive transit offerings. An urban lifestyle isn't for everyone, but it's better for everyone, including suburbanites, if adopting a lifestyle with a smaller social footprint is made easier and cheaper for those who want it.

But, sadly and frustratingly...

When it comes right down to it, most suburbanites are more interested in validating their own lifestyle choices and political prejudices than in acting in their own interests. And that was in the '90's, when Bill Clinton carried Georgia and before 9/11 pushed Republicans off the ideological cliff. It's far worse now.

The "****, yeah!" factor dominates metro Atlanta politics. How can a region make real progress if both its leaders and its voters are are committed to acting against not only the region's interests, but against their own?

Last edited by Tom 958; June 3rd, 2012 at 03:30 PM.
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Old June 3rd, 2012, 06:31 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeimieLvr View Post
An essay of personal experiences does not convey the general atmosphere of any city, period. I'm pretty sure you could find someone who had bad experiences in Yokohama, but that doesn't lead to Yokohama being a bad place.
Of course not-- Just trying to give balance to the OP's comment.

That Emory line has been on the books since the early 80s... I can remember the map in my father's work truck used to have a dotted line that started from Arts Center station and went through Piedmont and Monroe to get to that alignment, following the Southern RR tracks into DeKalb County to get to Emory... That line was then supposed to keep going right into Stone Mountain...
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Old June 3rd, 2012, 08:02 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom 958 View Post
Yes, but I'd to add something: I spent an exciting few years in the mid/late '90's as an activist on transportation and development issues, focusing on Gwinnett County. My specialty was reframing sprawl issues in such a way as to appeal to conservative suburban homeowners, of which I happen to be one. I found it to be fun and easy: As the old saying goes, when you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is to stop digging. And Gwinnett and other jurisdictions do a lot of digging by imposing sales taxes to pay for sprawl infrastructure rather than imposing impact fees. Suburbanites who are angry at having to deal with overburdened infrastructure should be, and to some extent were, receptive to the idea that new development should pay to address the problems it causes rather than dumping the costs of doing so onto existing residents. Those of a libertarian/free market bent could see the wisdom of using a market mechanism to increase the price of problematic sprawl development and decrease the price of strengthening existing neighborhoods. And I never heard a coherent answer to the question of why Gwinnett homeowners should subsidize the building of new homes that will compete with theirs in the marketplace while making their own neighborhoods less desirable.

I was also fond of pointing out that those who chose to adopt an urban lifestyle were doing suburbanites several favors: keeping their cars off of our road, keeping their ozone precursors out of our air, and getting more use out of our rather expensive transit offerings. An urban lifestyle isn't for everyone, but it's better for everyone, including suburbanites, if adopting a lifestyle with a smaller social footprint is made easier and cheaper for those who want it.

But, sadly and frustratingly...

When it comes right down to it, most suburbanites are more interested in validating their own lifestyle choices and political prejudices than in acting in their own interests. And that was in the '90's, when Bill Clinton carried Georgia and before 9/11 pushed Republicans off the ideological cliff. It's far worse now.

The "****, yeah!" factor dominates metro Atlanta politics. How can a region make real progress if both its leaders and its voters are are committed to acting against not only the region's interests, but against their own?
Don't worry, they will eventually suffer in the near future from their dumb decisions.
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Old June 3rd, 2012, 09:11 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joezierer View Post
If that happens it will blow my mind. Growing up down there I would never believe in a competent rail system there.

Are they gonna start getting state funding?
It's a vote on the 1% sales tax referendum that will fund a long list of transit projects...it's not about state funding.
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Old June 3rd, 2012, 11:59 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtBk View Post
Don't worry, they will eventually suffer in the near future from their dumb decisions.
I don't want suffering.
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Old June 4th, 2012, 02:33 AM   #127
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Tell that to local leaders and the voters. If the population doesn't want to make reforms to make Atlanta a more sustainable and livable metropolitan area, that's fine but they should bear the consequences of their continued path for more auto-centric developments that is spreading further and further in the metropolitan area
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Old July 28th, 2012, 09:32 PM   #128
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Atlanta Regional Rail System in 2014

Go to this website and vote on whether Atlanta should be a regional rail system for the metro area.

http://www.atlantaregionalrailnow.com/

You be the judge...
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Old July 29th, 2012, 06:09 AM   #129
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Mods, move this post here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1158551
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Old July 30th, 2012, 01:24 AM   #130
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Thread merged.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 09:38 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtBk View Post
Tell that to local leaders and the voters. If the population doesn't want to make reforms to make Atlanta a more sustainable and livable metropolitan area, that's fine but they should bear the consequences of their continued path for more auto-centric developments that is spreading further and further in the metropolitan area
T-SPLOST has been rejected by 69% of voters. The authorities will now seek federal funds to complete some much smaller projects in the metro area.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 05:26 PM   #132
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Suburbanist, this is great news for you.
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 09:44 PM   #133
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So the yankee suburbanites in Atlanta have shut down yet another Good Idea.
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 10:53 PM   #134
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Do outer Atlantans now have yankee accents?
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 11:30 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joezierer View Post
So the yankee suburbanites in Atlanta have shut down yet another Good Idea.
Well, considering the measure died in Fulton County as well.......
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Old August 4th, 2012, 05:51 AM   #136
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As I said in US skybar, it's unfortunate that voters rejected the referendum, but so be it if the folks of Atlanta metropolitan area want to be stupid, and don't want to pay for better infrastructure. Not my problem.
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Old August 4th, 2012, 08:39 AM   #137
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As I said in US skybar, it's unfortunate that voters rejected the referendum, but so be it if the folks of Atlanta metropolitan area want to be stupid, and don't want to pay for better infrastructure. Not my problem.
They want infrastructure, but paid by Washington, DC
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Old August 5th, 2012, 06:11 AM   #138
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They want infrastructure, but paid by Washington, DC
It is indeed and I must say it is this exact selfish attitude that shows what is wrong with this country today. Everyone wants top-notch infastructure and services but no one wants to pay for it, as a result even necessary maintence for roads and transit infastructure gets deferred because there are no "funds" to complete the work just to make sure everything is adequately maintained let alone funding and building new infastructure. As a result of course is you have issues such as water main breaks, power outages/blackouts, bridges collapsing, etc.
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Old August 5th, 2012, 08:20 AM   #139
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I blame it on anti-tax and anti-government attitudes that prevails this country thanks to Reagan, groups like Cato Institute and Americans for Tax Reform, and right-wing populist media.
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Old August 5th, 2012, 04:15 PM   #140
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